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Gardai & Cycling



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    The flaw in your thinking is that its about skill.

    Its about awareness (and experience). A driver who cycles maybe more aware (more experience) of cyclists and other road users. So may drive differently, arguably safer. That the stats show a differences, means there is a difference.

    You can tell the different between someone who has this awareness and someone who hasn't. Even if they claim to be cyclist as some do to try add credibility to their viewpoint. Its obvious they don't cycle.

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 3,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Raichu

    I will correct you and remind you that it is in fact John Rambo who has the flawed thinking of skill barriers I requested he provide me with evidence to support such a claim because as I made very clear I think it’s a ridiculous notion born of bias and little else.

    please in future make a better effort to ensure you’re accusing the correct person of flawed though as I assure you my train of thought is based on nothing but logical reasoning.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    Wherever the hat fits...

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,941 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo

    Very interesting, amazing insights and anecdotes etc.. but not only are cyclists safer, but cyclists make better drivers. More actual facts below

    I'm not a commuter cyclist any more and I've three vehicles in the driveway, daily driver, Campervan and something nice for the weekend. beep beep!

    Feel free to back up your stories and insights with some facts too!

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,895 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko

    If you took me on your walk, and I pointed out the majority of drivers using their phones while driving, and the high percentage of drivers breaking speed limits, and the large number of black or navy cars that are hard to see at night, and the substantial number of vehicles with one or more broken light (I spotted two vehicles with two broken brake lights each one day last week), all the things that you missed on your walk due to your own confirmation bias, where would that leave us?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,895 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko

    If you think Transdev have some kind of pro-cycling anti-car agenda, you would be wrong. They've been caught out showing considerable anti-cycling bias, showing a majority of cycling incidents in their selected videos released to the press while cyclists make up a minority of the crashes they encounter.

    You'll have to work harder to find excuses to ignore ALL the quantitative evidence staring you in the face.

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 3,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Raichu

    You can make whatever smart ass response you like as opposed to just saying “I was wrong” but sure, suit yourself mate.

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 3,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Raichu

    Have to say it’s almost embarrassing to watch grown ass adults carry on like a bunch of kids over a preference in transport method.

    i wonder if bus vs train users argue about who’s better and safer like car & bike owners do. 😂

    reeks of superiority complex. What a piss take haha.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    People want facts. They are given the facts, then they don't want facts. Because the fact are inconvenient for their choices. The reality is they want to rant and swap anecdotes about accidents they almost had, but didn't. They seem to think they can make it true the more often they repeat it, and the more long winded and verbose they can it. It will some how become reality.

    Well it won't, and you can't.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,895 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko

    Was it not your good self who spent considerable time and effort in this diatribe, and now you're sneering at people who engage in discussion?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    The question was asked do the Garda enforce the rules on cyclists, specifically red light breaking.

    The answer is clearly yes, around half the the fixed penalty fines are for red light breaking.

    You can choose to answer the above without reference to eScooters, eBikes, Cars, buses, trains, Granny with kittens, a long wandering story about your 200yrs of vast experience, on the road, on your Raleigh Burner, or umpteen nears misses you have every 10 mins, be it walking, cycling, driving, flying etc.

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 3,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Raichu

    I’m not sneering at anyone for having a discussion, rather I’m embarrassed at the clear nonsense being spewed left and right in defence of who has the better mode of transport & is the better road user.

    I’ve been around long enough to have seen this time and again & I just can never wrap my head around this idea that people can’t seem to carry on about their day using whatever transport is available to them without the need to feel better than someone else by means of using a car or bike respectively.

    I do want to make sure it’s apparent though I have absolutely nothing against a cyclist or car user based on their preferences, however I find it almost pitiful that a thread discussing whether or not Gardai are letting people off the hook for the indefensible has devolved into pulling statistics from thin air, accusing people of saying things they certainly never did & just trying to feel superior to someone.

    a lot of what I’ve seen here is a bunch of what I presume to be cyclists, ripping shreds off anyone who dares to either appear indifferent to cars vs cyclists or favours the former.

    you are free to insult my post if you like, I’m stuck in hospital at the minute and I’ve Jack else to do, so I guess I did indulge a bit. Boredom huh?

    regardless I will apologise for any offence I may have caused, I could probably have put it a little better, but I don’t think I’ll ever understand why it is so difficult for folks to just get up in the morning and use whatever vehicle they are inclined without the need for bashing and insulting everyone who does the opposite.

    i see an awful lot of either “all car owners are bollockeses” or “cyclists are bollockeses” like Christ on a bicycle it’s not that deep!

    I’m absolutely under no circumstances trying to stifle discussion either, it’s neither my interest nor indeed my right to do so. I was simply observed a great deal of quite asinine “no you!” behaviour that sees bias take over from what’s factual and I just find that sad. As I said I think if one or more persons is going to debate a given topic we should do with a factual eye rather than a bias.

    But anyway, I’m kinda done here I think. I’ll once again extend my apologies to anyone who I may have offended.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,895 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko

    It's kinda funny that you refer to 'bias taking over from what is factual'. The whole premise of the OP is bias taking over from what's factual - relying on personal anecdote over decades of evidence that clearly shows the real, actual, factual sources of danger on the roads (which aren't cyclists breaking red lights, just ICYMI).

    What statistics were pulled from thin air, btw?

    Hope all goes well for you with the medics.

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 3,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Raichu

    Oh trust me I’ve seen plenty of absolute farce being presented as matter of fact & maybe I might get just bored enough to point it all out (maybe not though I don’t think that’s a good way to make friends of anyone 😂)

    To be fair I’m actually guilty of that right now also as you are correct to pull me up on the stats comment - I meant to say stats that are in some manner flawed for one reason or another and without more insight I would hesitate to find them a concrete source.

    specifically regarding the amount of red lights ran, how did these figures come to exist & if it’s as I presume just counting any garda intervention in those cases, that may lead to slightly flawed stats if Gardai are infact not pursuing as vehemently cyclists who run lights vs other vehicles.

    Then as I mentioned about the luas thing to me that doesn’t scream a definite “yes cars are more stupid” because as I said it’s one thing to chance driving out in front of a luas in a car where the risk of injury or death is significantly reduced vs a bike where let’s be honest you’ll more than likely die. That I would chalk up to human preservation kicking in.

    i guess I look at it like saying 99.99% of cyclists don’t cycle off cliffs like.. yeah.. I bet! 😂 I hope that I was clearer there, my bad again!

    And thank u I hope so also - thanks it is appreciated :)

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    Well how can you trust any Garda figures after all the messing they've done. They are at best a guide and you'd hope are representative of reality. Accident and hospital stats are similarly a guide for various reasons.

    Most of the studies people refer to have been transport or research studies. Some have been done by Luas. They generally use cameras then count them afterwards. There are also automatic traffic counters on some routes.

    Not much credibility in criticizing the data if not familiar with it. The data is at least better than no data.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    Some people are multimodal. In that they use more than one form of transport in a week. The might use the car, bike, rental, light rail, mainline rail etc. in a given week depending on what they are doing.

    Those that mostly only use one form of transport are pretty obvious. They tend to be less open to any alterative form of transport.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 44,570 CMod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder

    a lot of what I’ve seen here is a bunch of what I presume to be cyclists, ripping shreds off anyone who dares to either appear indifferent to cars vs cyclists or favours the former.

    you'll probably find that 90%+ of the cyclists here are also motorists. any accusations of bias in what would colloquially be referred to as a 'cyclist vs motorists' debate (and funny enough, this one is quiet well behaved compared to most) would probably be levelled at those who only use one of those modes. and typically the bias would usually reside on the 'motorist' side of the debate as a result.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ DavyD_83

    In my experience Gard's see cyclists as a nuisance, rather than a road users; which I believe it's a widespread view in Ireland in general.

    Until roads are designed to be used/shared my by drivers and cyclists safely, there will always be this cars v cyclists mentality and will always be a certain type of cyclist who will (justifiably??) Ignore certain rules which were put in place without an acknowledgement of their existence.

    Also, there are degrees of red light breaking.

    Breaking a red to go straight or left when you guys the kerb and there are no pedestrians crossing makes sense. Breaking a red to go straight across a bust crossroads is serious and/or dangerous.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    Live and let live.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,941 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,895 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko

    There are indeed degrees of red light breaking.

    There is red light breaking on a 10-15 kg bike doing 10-20 kmph.

    And there is red light breaking in a 1-5 tonne vehicle doing 20-150 kmph.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,914 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms

    you dont see many 1-5 tonne or even heavier vehicles breaking red lights as there are potential consequences for the drivers who firstly need that license for work and possibly a clean driving record... in other words a deterrent exists..secondly the Gardai would be facilitating them with zero leeway you’d imagine..motorists are under a microscope, cyclists, don’t seem to be. Zero focus on them..

    cyclists are a lesser danger to road users but good road safety is born from a culture....not one rule for one cohort of road user as relates to safety..

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,941 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo

    I see 1.5+ tonne cars breaking lights every single day with zero consequences.

    Cyclist however, as the data and facts back up, don't break lights as much as motorists do. There simply shouldn't be one responsible cohort and one that throws caution to the wind with heavier, faster and more dangerous vehicles.

    Safety on the road is born from a culture and most cyclists are also motorists but most motorists aren't cyclists. It is imperative that motorists get out of the car and cycle for a length of time to experience the consequences of the actions of inexperienced or careless drivers.

    It will also make them better drivers as studies have shown.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 44,570 CMod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder

    please go get an eye test. please. you must be a hideous danger on the roads if you're this unobservant.

    i saw six motorists break the lights after they'd gone red on collins avenue the other day. on a single red. the last few actually accelerated through an already red light.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,895 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko

    If you don't see many drivers breaking red lights, how come I've been able to produce a few videos each day showing exactly that happening? Are you suggesting that it ONLY happens in the vicinity of the small number of people who bother to record and share their content, or are you ready yet to face the reality that red light running in widespread?

    In relation to 'one rule for one cohort', are you suggesting that the same rules apply to all road users, regardless of risk?

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,914 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms

    It happens, but the % of cyclists who I observe breaking reds compared to the number of car, van and truck drivers is far higher, massively so.

    youve been able to produce videos, simply because it does happen, nobody is claiming it doesn’t but the cyclist epidemic of breaking reds is what was being discussed.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭ Hurrache

    My observation is that more vehicles will go through red lights than someone on a bike, that's pretty much inarguable. At every traffic light in a city you'll have 1,2 or 3 cars go through a light at every cycle. It just doesn't happen with people on bikes. Primarily because someone on a bike can't barge their way through traffic like some motorists do.

    The stats have been provided to you already, you just don't want to know about it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    For example buses break them constantly.

    Thousands of fines issued to cyclists is not zero focus.

    Low enforcement of motorists considering the rampant rule breaking. Certainly not under a microscope in any way.

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Sorry but this is not true.

    Cars, trucks, buses all break red lights, every single time they change.

    Yep, some cyclists also do.

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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    If you really want to be completely honest about this issue, you will find that it's pedestrians who break the most red lights.

    And that's not even including pedestrians that cross willy nilly in the middle of roads