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Traffic Congestion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭blackbox

    With all the bus lanes there are now, there is no valid excuse for the buses to be slow.

    There are too many stops and it takes far too long for passengers to get on.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Citrus_8

    Off peak some busses go back to a garage. So they don't run empty. That's why there's a schedule: frequency is better during peak times and worse off peak to adapt to the passenger numbers change. There are a few types of driver shifts, and one of them is peak time driver with a few hours break during off peak hours.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,512 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    Apart from the many trucks, vans and cars that park in the bus lanes "just for a few minutes" and the construction companies that use bus lanes for queuing up their deliveries, there are no valid excuses.....

  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Eason Petite Timer

    I'm not against HGVs but they are definitely in the wrong lanes a lot more now, they can only drive in Lane 1 so says the rules of the road but they are regularly in the middle lane 2 on the N7 and even 3 and Lane 2 on the M9 taking forever to overtake another truck.

    It should be at least considered to reduce or remove HGV from rush hour on the busiest roads where possible, no doubt that would kick up a stir. More freight by rail perhaps ?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,224 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    Of course there is. Very few bus routes enjoy a fully segregated lane for their entire journey.

    Also when there is general congestion, left turning vehicles can and do hold up bus lanes from getting through junctions.

    It doesn't take much of the above to throw a bus service way off timetable.

  • Guards handing out on the spot fines to cars that go into the bus lane to queue miles before the next left turn / filter would speed bus traffic considerably. On the Chapelizod road, my old neck of the woods, the bus lane would often be backed up 100m or more by stationary cars trying to turn left into Phoenix Park or Parkgate Street. A stroll down the line handing out fines to everyone every half hour would knock ten minutes of the travel time of the 25 or 26

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring

    I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

    No rule against HGV in lane 2 AFAIK. But not allowed in 3?

    HGV in lane 1 of M50 must be a disaster. Amount of poor and inconsiderate drivers is through the roof.

    Poor - not accelerating to speed. Or jumping into brake zones.

    Inconsiderate - skipping up the outside of a q in auxiliary lane to literally stop in lake 1 and force their way in. Undertaking in auxiliary lane and forcing back into labe 1 in front of HGVs.

    As for reduced HGV numbers at peak. Sure peak seems to lady from 07:00 to 09:30 and from 16:00 to 18:30 on those roads.

    We'd be seeing empty shelves like brexitland

    Post edited by Wildly Boaring on

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker

    It seems worse but there's 2 things I can point out

    (IMHO) There's been substantial vandalism of traffic lights and junctions to impede cars movement.

    The standard of driving has plummeted, even now with many people back driving for a while you really have to watch yourself.

    Almost crashed into by a lad very late running red light, he genuinely fvcked up and profusely apologised.

    Yesterday I was turned in on (maybe deliberately, there's a lot of mental health issues out there) and had to stick the car to the road to barely avoid a collision.

    People randomly changing lanes... "la dee da" swing in swing out.

    The poor driving results in more accidents = more delays. M50 a car park going north today.

  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Eason Petite Timer

    No trucks are not permitted to use lane 2 of a 2 lane motorway or lane 2 or 3 of a 3 lane motorway.

    From the rules of the road page 8.

    "Do not use the outside lane if you are driving: • a goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass (MAM) of more than 3,500 kilogrammes such as a lorry or heavy goods vehicle; • a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan. You may use it, however, in exceptional circumstances when you cannot proceed in the inner lane because of an obstruction ahead."

    So, Outside lane is lane 2 of a 2 lane motorway or lane 3 of 3 lane so I was wrong about the 3 lane HGV can seemingly use lane 2 of a 3 lane seems ridiculous really.

    I really do believe HGV should drive more at night, not always possible, but definitely HGV should be more off peak. I can't see it effecting supplied in supermarkets etc if deliveries can come in at different times or night time.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭markpb

    So far this thread has blamed road design, junction design, bus lane design, poor drivers and mental health issues for congestion. If any of those are actually the cause , there must be a city somewhere they doesn’t have those issues and congestion isn’t a problem?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Yeah we're saying the same thing.

    You were moaning about m50 and n/m7.

    Both 3 lane.

    So trucks allowed in lane 2

  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Eason Petite Timer

    I'm sure every country have their traffic issues but there's no denying that our roads are poorly designed, the straight bits on the open road out of Dublin might be fine but where it gets much more complicated to design roads in Dublin, on ramps/off ramps for example, Ireland fails miserably. Off ramps off a major road ending at a roundabout is also a disaster.

    3 lanes is not enough for the volume of traffic we have in Ireland on certain roads.

    Look at the long mile road junction, a complete and utter joke with traffic lights and the Luas has to stop there too. Should be proper over/under pass there. Just 1 of many examples.

  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone

    Seen a guy on the way to work this morning with his tablet on the dash watching what looked like breaking bad whilst driving on the N11.

    Clown like this cause accidents that grind everything to a halt.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,630 ✭✭✭whippet

    the general consensus here from those who are stuck in the rush hour is that the traffic is the fault of all other road users, the infrastructure, bus lane hoggers, HGVs etc.

    The reality is that the problems are due to the volume of people who want to go to the same couple of square miles every day at the same time ... so if you are one of these you are part of the problem. Grant it many people might not have any choice but to be part of it and I was one of those for years. Until employers and employees actively look at options that does not entail everyone having to be in the city at the same time every day these problems will persist. If you can tell me of any capital city in the developed world where traffic is free flowing during rush hour I'd love to know.

    Even the likes of Stockholm is mental with traffic in the morning if you choose not to take public transport or cycle.

    The days that I do need to go to the office now - I drop the kids to school and then come down the M1 / M50 at about 9:30 and the actual driving time is about half of what it would be if I aimed to be in the office for 9am.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭Miscreant

    I agree with @Nathalia Some Symmetry here. The LUAS should have either been elevated at junctions or tunnelled under. It causes absolute mayhem where I live when it cuts diagonally across a major junction and stops traffic from 4 directions. Before the LUAS, there were rarely traffic snarl ups in this area unless someone had an accident (and I am aware that traffic volumes were lower 17 years ago, however when the LUAS signalling was officially switched on here, the traffic problems started immediately and have not been resolved since).

    As with everything in this country, there is no real forethought on how to build something and future proof it. Getting people out of their cars only works if there are viable alternatives and that is not the case for a lot of the "commuter belt". I am lucky in living 15 minutes from where I work but I know people coming from places like Carlow, Portlaoise and Cavan who sit in traffic simply because there is no alternative for them. For these individuals to take Public Transport, it would take over 2 hours (and not just because of traffic but because they would have to change bus/train a couple of times on the journey) whereas the car takes a little over half that. That time and effort saving is nothing to be sniffed at and I don't think that any measure short of banning cars and only having public transport on the roads during the morning commute will solve this.

    Stats are showing that our traffic is not at peak levels and we are a little below what our Pre-Covid peak was, however from my experience and that of others I work with and my own family, there has definitely been a pick up of traffic on urban roads as more people are taking the car these days. One only has to look at the number of passengers on the LUAS or bus services. They are not back to full load so how are those who are not using the services getting to work? By car, on the same roads.... that is how.

    There must also be something else at play as quite a lot of my colleagues are still working from home or only commuting 2 days to the office. If everyone was doing it, then the traffic should be much lower than it is. Perhaps there have been a lot of traffic signal, junction layout and one way system changes during the various lockdowns that are causing this issue now and people will have to get used to it (as I doubt anything will be changed back.... we don't do that, as a general policy for some reason). I have certainly come across some traffic lights that have had their sequences shortened so that only 3 or 4 vehicles can get through. Staggering of traffic lights seems to be a lost art as well, seeing as you can have a green in your favour, only to be put to a red about 100m down the road and have to stop while the traffic piles up behind you. I think a lot of the traffic flow measures are dreamed up by people who have no idea what the local area is experiencing and a lot of the "traffic modelling" done in the past 18 months has been with greatly reduced volumes. Perhaps we will see a change soon but I won't hold my breath.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,660 ✭✭✭✭zell12

    Indo suggests that those who used the bus, are not doing so now - Traffic hits pre-Covid levels as workers shun public transport

    Eamonn Ryan on Radio1 now confirming that 30% of traffic is school-related

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,421 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    The LUAS should have either been elevated at junctions or tunnelled under. It causes absolute mayhem where I live when it cuts diagonally across a major junction and stops traffic from 4 directions. Before the LUAS, there were rarely traffic snarl ups in this area unless someone had an accident

    how much extra would it cost to tunnel the luas? if the luas should be tunnelled, it should be tunnelled for the benefit of the luas, not for the benefit of the other traffic in the area. the luas has a carrying capacity far in excess of what the roads around it have, and it's the transport option which should take priority.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85

    I just read that article... dublin has no transport system. Buses stop every few seconds, they still take cash for god sake! Why would you get out of your car ? They were constantly reducing road space, the buses are being held up more and more because of it, when they dont have their own dedicated lanes...

    If they think people will get out of cars, when they pay as good as no motor tax. We have a third world public transport system, an entirely car dependent sprawl of a city. I'm sorry, it is the idiots in charge that are responsible...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring

    That 30% is amazing.

    We live 1km from the local school.

    At least half the estate drive their kids to the school.

    There's a ginormous footpath and cycle lane with zebra crossings at every junction.

    My mother also lives 1km from the national school. Nice wide path to it. In the countyside. Nobody walks/cycles to that school. Nobody!!

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring

    If the luas was tunnelled it wouldn't have happened.

    People throw this idea of tunnelling and undergrounds around as if it's a panacea.

    The costs are staggering. There's a reason a single leg of "Metrolink" to the airport is forecast at €10billion!!!!

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,421 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    regarding my comment about the capacity of the luas - at peak, the luas runs ~20 times an hour and the new large trams have a capacity of 408. so that's a capacity of 8,160 per hour, in each direction.

    if you take the M50, and (i know! naive assumption alert) assume that everyone drives with a 2 second gap to the vehicle in front, taking 4 lanes (not just the typical 3 lanes), the M50 has a capacity of 7,200 vehicles per hour in each direction.

    so in terms of moving people, the luas is vastly more efficient than even a motorway, given the amount of space those 4 lanes of motorway take up to be able to move that many vehicles.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,421 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    The costs are staggering. There's a reason a single leg of "Metrolink" to the airport is forecast at €10billion!!!!

    and i think that's a daily mail, 'let's pluck a large number out of the air' figure too, no?

  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison

    What is it that you expect drivers to do in all honesty?

  • Registered Users Posts: 31,674 ✭✭✭✭listermint

    The notion more lanes or stacked roads on top of each other solves congestion has been disproven world over.

    Solving congestion means removing cars from the road removing cars from the road will involve many approaches there is no magic gun. That also includes incentives via free parking at dedicated terminus for public transport external to the city. But also punitive costs to enter the city. Amongst many other things

  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Eason Petite Timer

    Was he driving a Tesla ? it's bad form but at least the car has some form of automation, imagine in cars that have no form of automation ? I see this daily, maybe not watching Netflix but regularly on their phone looking down because the phone is on their lap as if it wasn't obvious. The amount of road not seen in just 2 seconds at 80Km/hr and more is really a lot but this isn't taken into consideration.

    My car almost drives me to work, it keeps in lane, accelerates and brakes etc but I'm always prepared for the unexpected as these are driving aids not replacements, it has made a huge difference to my commute though.

  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ Theodore Loose Furnace

    Incentives for electric cars to cause traffic is so hilarious. reduce tolls, get more of them on the motorways. Low tax, get more of them on the roads. Freedom to use bus lanes (desired) get slower busses. All slowing traffic, causes more time and more fuel use

    If they want cleaner air and less traffic, they are going about it all wrong

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Impossible price a job before it's designed.

    But AFAIK Jacobs are designing it these days so there should be some some of estimate

    But to put the luas underground would cost a multiple of the 10 billion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997

    I don't get your logic.

    If someone is managing without a car, an expensive electric car isn't any incentive to get a car.

    However if you have a car, switching to an EV will only suit some people. We are well behind most of EU for EVs adoption and costs.

    We are pretty bad when it comes to clean air and traffic. Through EVs will help. But that's we are still thinking like it's the 1970s when it comes to cars.