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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    You seem to be equating workers with motorists. Not all workers drive. The current default model of free parking for employees discriminates against those who don't drive - those who walk, cycle or use public transport. The employer is investing considerable resources in providing a facility that will only be used by a subset of employees. Imagine if the employer came out with a nice new canteen that can only be used by staff earning above €50k pa and all the others can feck off to the sandwich bar? That's effectively what is happening here. If employers want access to the best of employees, they need to treat their employees fairly, and not subsidise the transport choices of some employees but not others.

    You might want to read up on how roads are funded btw. Cyclists pay tax - surprise surprise. Other countries are looking at actually paying cyclists to cycle, as well as many other kinds of incentives given the overall benefits that arise for society - reduced traffic congestion, reduced pollution, more space on public transport, improved public health. And you think we should be placing more barriers in front of those who are considering cycling?

    Do pedestrians need to be paying a footpath tax?

  • Your line of thinking is just really Bizarre.

    Yes, I'm a motorist and I also pay tax as do every motorist + insurance + Motor Tax. So you think that if you're a cyclist that you shouldn't pay some tax to use infrastructure or to fund future cycle lanes ?

    So you say I should pay tax on my parking space in work because I have no alternative so the cyclist can feel better with the fact they're cycling for free and knowing the motorist is getting even more screwed by paying for a parking space they have no choice but to use ?

    Complete madness!

    So if I was to think like you then the Cyclist should pay tax and insurance and pay to keep their bike on site during working hours!

    I'm all for cycling but the climate in Ireland is not ideal for most of the year when someone has to get to work, I would estimate that the majority of People live more than 5 kms from their work place and those who choose to cycle should do so but those who choose not to should have another viable form of transport that's practical and fast.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭Flinty997

    The tax is to discourage traffic.

    It's not used solely for transport infrastructure. So someone who walks every where will be contributing to the general tax pool that pays for transport infrastructure. Same as a motorist same as cyclist.

    I've a few old cars. I bet I'm paying more motor tax than average. I also have a few bikes. You're saying I should pay even more road tax for a few bicycles as well.

    Ultimately what your are saying is you want to entourage more driving less cycling and thus more traffic and more pollution. The 1960s called,.... it wants you back.

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  • I don't drive a car with an internal combustion engine and have no emissions from my car yet I have to pay the same as a small Petrol or diesel engine but I'm not complaining about a bit of Motor tax unless it gets outrageously expensive.

    By the way we're not taxed on pollution we're taxed based on Co2 which isn't a pollution.

    I don't listen to Pat Kenny or Hook.

    If you have thousands or even tens of thousands of cyclists on the road then the risks go up, probably more so with these electric scooters whizzing about all over the place in and out of cars, breaking red lights on footpaths, but they'll ruin it for themselves!

    Again, I fail to understand why I should pay a tax on a space that is there and would potentially lie idle if I didn't use it.

    Maybe charge the person who doesn't need it who is taking the space for someone who might need it who travels longer distances.

  • Are you're saying those who have no choice but to drive should pay this parking tax ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    That must be some kind of magic car you have if you don't emit tyre particles and brake pad particles, pollution that society as a whole ends up paying for through healthcare and more.

    More cyclists actually makes things safer for cyclists - safety in numbers, motorists more likely to open their feckin eyes and see what's going on around them instead of playing with their phones. And more cyclists generally means less cars, so when the operator does something stupid, they're a lot less likely to harm other people on their bike than in their car.

    And again, the reason you should pay a tax on the space you're using is to be fair to your fellow employees who aren't using a space.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭Flinty997

    It was never based on pollution as it's a flat fee. If it was based on pollution it would be based on mileage and cost to manufacture and disposal and such etc.

    Why would you be taxed on a space you don't use.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭Flinty997

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  • No, not magic car but it emits nothing as it's fully electric, and it uses it's fuel much more efficiently than ICE car, Petrol and Diesel needs to be refined which needs a huge amount of energy. Electrics can use any renewables on the Grid at the time.

    It uses regen braking which greatly reduces the amount of brake particles.

    "And again, the reason you should pay a tax on the space you're using is to be fair to your fellow employees who aren't using a space."

    How is it fair to charge me tax on a space I need ? if someone choose to cycle then that's good for them but why should I be penalised ? this is just mad talk and sounds like the kind or shyte Eamon Ryan would come up with! Which is as good as " the only to reduce emissions is through taxation" no that only increases poverty. Give people a viable alternative to cars and Oil/Gas heating that's as cheap to install and cheaper to run and they'll use it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭Flinty997

    The title is " Traffic Congestion" and EV is traffic. Lots of EVs IS congestion.

    If you had no where to park, you'd be unable to drive to that location. Hence no driving less traffic, less congestion.

    This is not rocket science.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 46,893 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    By the way we're not taxed on pollution we're taxed based on Co2 which isn't a pollution

    not a pollution, my sweet succulent ass.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    So it emits tyre particles and some brake particles - not exactly 'nothing' there.

    Is it fair for you to pay for parking if you have to go to the airport? Is it fair for you to pay for parking if you have to go to town? What's so different about paying for parking at your workplace, other than it not being the traditional way?

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,912 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage

    We had that, 100 years ago. People do not want to go back.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    We had tax on parking spaces 100 years ago? I didn't realise the Edwardians were so progressive.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,398 ✭✭✭Flinty997

    Not sure what they cost. A penny or a farthing.

  • If I had nowhere to park I would be, like many out of a job. This is also not rocket science.

    What is puzzling is why so many People are not working from home when they could be ? why do we have no flexible working laws in Ireland ? this is really mad.

  • You're just posting anything to go against car ownership. Compared to ICE any emitted particles from an EV are significantly less than Petrol or Diesel cars. Can't be nothing, breakes are kind of an essential thing to have on a car but again, electric car regen significantly reduces brake particles.

    Paying for parking at the airport is there to stop People using the Airport for parking for non Related business.

    Council parking exists to keep valuable spaces available and to generate revenue.

    If my work place wants me to go to site, I need parking it's essential, it's not a luxury it's a necessity.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭Miscreant

    I agree with Nathalia Some Symmetry here as electric vehicles are generally less polluting than their ICE powered counterparts (and I am not going to be getting into the whole debate of manufacturing emissions malarkey). Bicycles must "emit" rubber particles too in any case, they have tyres that wear out in the same manner as car tyres do. Same with their brakes, which are mostly rubber with the exception of the newer disk type brake systems. I am all for accuracy of language when formulating an argument online however, sometimes it borders on pedantry in this forum!

    For parking; if an employer sets up shop in somewhere like a business park or industrial estate outside of the city, of course the employees are going to need parking. To say otherwise is simply denying reality! While there may be 1 or 2 busses that will go to that business park, they usually come from "Insert City" centre so someone would have to get there in the first place to be able to catch the bus.... This is simply not practical for someone coming from outside of the city. There are many, like Nathalia Some Symmetry, who have to commute, as any other option just does not make sense (either time or expense wise, or both). I have worked in countries where the public transport systems are leaps and bounds ahead of our own, yet there is still a need for parking wherever businesses setup. Even in the Netherlands, which has a huge proportion of cyclists, there are still large companies with huge car parks simply because there is no alternative for their employees. Personally, I would rather sit in traffic for an hour, than to trudge and get a bus into a city centre and another one out to get to my destination. As for the expense of having a vehicle over that of using public transport? The vehicle can take me where I want, when I want... not just to work.

    Until the public transport system in this country (not just in Dublin) is planned in a more cohesive way, then these congestion issues will continue well into the future.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 46,893 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    Bicycles must "emit" rubber particles too in any case, they have tyres that wear out in the same manner as car tyres do.

    they do. but from a quick google, the total weight of disc brake pads on a bike seems to be under 100g, and on a car, about 3KG.

    the tyres on my car weigh about 30KG (new). on my bike, 500g. granted, they're skinny road bike tyres, but even doubling that weight you're again looking at a difference of about 30x.

  • We need tyres to keep us on the road lol. Nothing else available at the moment to replace that.

    I'm not going to leave my car at home because it might me causing some particle emissions that I can't control because I need to work to live, I could of course choose to go on the dole and have a lot more time for my 2 Children. Then I can cycle where I want when I want. One job I can't get fired from lol.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    Or you could just pay for your parking, like you do elsewhere, and not be so dramatic?

  • You're the one being dramatic if you think paying for work parking is a good thing when there are no alternatives. It's just another senseless tax on working People.

    Besides, all my company has to do is put me down as working from home, we don't own the sites where I work so charging me tax on a parking space would not work and for many People like me who travel between sites to keep essential services running.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭salonfire

    Ban the cyclists while we're at it due to the level of brake and rubber particles produced.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    You pay for fuel when you travel. You pay for insurance and wear and tear on your vehicle. Why would you expect free storage space?

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 46,893 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    the notion of paying BIK on a parking space doesn't make sense if it's in an area where there's parking which doesn't cost money.

    i.e. it only makes sense where it's essentially a gift to the employee.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko

    All parking costs money. The only question is whether that money is paid by everybody or paid by those that enjoy use of the parking.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭El Tarangu

    Of course it costs money; I doubt that the company's landlord is giving them hundreds of cubic metres of serviced building space for free.

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  • Because the company want me to travel between sites to fix their equipment and install stuff that provides essential services to you and most people on this site who use the internet every day and which allow people to work from home, so should I pay for parking on both sites that they don't even own ?

    Paid parking is just a mad idea, or perhaps they could charge people who travel 5 kms away and less.

    I've heard some mad ideas in my time but that's really mad, paid parking for work, lol.

    I drive EV and have mostly free work charging.