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Fine Gael Demographic

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    People talk about sf needing a calculator... maybe they do. But no more than fg that discover magic money trees when needed. No money for anything until the pandemic hits... and then they discover the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Likewise with ff and the first bust. All of them will have to live within the eu soending rules and dont the EU vet our budget now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Quite. At this stage voting FF/FG is rewarding failure and proven dishonesty, so whether or not the SF manifesto might be delusional does not even enter the equation. People just want to get rid of the former and have long since stopped caring what will replace them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,279 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And that's how USA ended up with Trump because there's always a worse option who promises unicorn solutions to difficult problems.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Housing, Broadband, Children's Hospital, Irish Water, fudging of tackling teacher unions and HSE administrative waste off the top of my head are reasons enough that they are failures, Leo the Leak (Jesus if ever a leader was a liability), massively public campaigns on welfare fraud (no where near as bad as they fear-mongered) yet tumbleweed on corporate and tax issues which cost the country proper levels of revenue potential.

    Wife and I are middle aged postgrads who should be right smack in the middle of their target demographic, yet all I see is incompetence every time they act.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    "fudging of tackling teacher unions"

    I can tell you right now that no party is going to tackle them. It's a bit like saying that "the total number of cattle in the country needs to be reduced to meet our emissions targets". In private a lot of politicians would agree but you won't get any coming out saying it publicly, for fear of the backlash from a very strong lobbying group. The loudest mouths are the ones that get heard.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I understand that no party will tackle them but FG put themselves forward as financially conservative and with the courage to do what is needed. So by their own metrics it's a failure


    PS: I am (very) pro-union but not in their case



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Of course. But that was enabled by the establishment taking the p!ss in selecting Hillary.

    I was biting my tongue voting for FG in 2020, in large part because I did not trust SF. I now see the actual (as opposed to threatened) nightmare of a SF government as the only thing that would force FG to sort itself out.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Another vote against FG rather than for SF.

    This really is starting to gain serious traction now from what I can see.

    If you were to say this to any elected FG official they will direct you to the national development plan but the voters are looking for houses not plans for houses.

    I don't think they will understand the full extent of the frustration until it is too late to do something about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    But it's not sf playing a blinder. Ffg are gifting them the seats based on decades of taking the piss...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Nail on the head... fg plans ate at a glacial pace, they are totally done. If they think people will wait another decade , and yet more failure. Lol !

    If they were in any way serious about housing ( they aren't) planning laws and endless judicial hold ups need to be sorted immediately. I'd potentially ban any new hotel or data centres in Dublin for the foreseeable future .


    Frees up construction capacity for housing. Any sites zoned hotel or commercial suitable for housing, change zoning. Possibly compensate land owner for this...

    Lower construction costs, simply way too high for most to afford. Allow single aspect, less lifts. Potentially even ditch expensive underground parking etc...

    Scrap lpt. If the government have an extra billion or two less, it's a billion or two less spent on waste...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Exactly. There seems to be this notion that if you're not happy with FG it's because you think that "SF will give you a free house". That's a childishly reductive argument. The reality is that there are a lot of things that FG could have done but choose not for reasons that I can't really understand. The two that spring to mind are:

    1. Financial institutions (or vulture funds if you will), most of whom are based in other countries are buying property with little or no restrictions. There are none at all on apartments and a laughable limit of 10 units per new development on houses. In many cases they are competing with and outbidding people here in Ireland only to then turn around and put the properties on the rental market for massive rents. This is insane. New Zealand in reaction to their own property bubble changed the law in 2018 so that only citizens or residents can purchase property in their country. Why can't we do something similar here?
    2. The tax on land hoarding in the recent budge is set at 3%. That is laughable at a time where house price increases are way above that. Basically it's still economically viable to hoard land. Empty houses are being let to rot and fall apart in every city in the country because the owners are "speculating on their investments". 3% is basically a wink to the property owners and a subliminal message for them not to worry.


    Passing proper legislation in both of these areas would be like pushing an open door and would blunt SF's biggest area of attack. I'm at a loss as to why the government parties don't go for it. The only reason I can think of is that both actions should actually affect the price of houses. The first would take away some of the demand whilst the other would bring more supply into the market (albeit property in need of renovations in most cases). I cannot think of any other reason why.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    theyre kinna trying to do that anyway, but its failing



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Considering they are a junior party to the DUP and dictated a kingdom that hates and subjugates them, Yes.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Third story on Irish Times homepage now... No excuse from FG to realise that things are at breaking point with their younger voters...

    Rent trap: A generation stuck in a vicious circle (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/rent-trap-a-generation-stuck-in-a-vicious-circle-1.4707095 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://m.independent.ie/news/revealed-the-real-winners-and-losers-in-property-tax-shake-up-40976749.html


    Lads look at this farce, how convenient that if you are in a house 200k or less, you pay as good as nothing. A value a huge amount of homeowners will give...

    Scrap lpt, it's an absolute farce. Hitting those already paying way more than their fair share...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Love how you say fair share, when what you rail against is exactly that.


    In general (yes general) those in more expensive homes can afford to pay more, which is fair

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Fair ? We have widely differing opinions on what fair is.... 90 euro on a 200k property.... lol !!! It's not even worth collecting...


    Sf on highest ever support ...


    if the rolling black outs happen... loooool!



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They have taken the lead by doing nothing. Things are so bad for the young middle class that we will take a chance on them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    I read an article linked to earlier. I think it was 18000 cost rentals over the next few years... it's a drop in the ocean. They are totally finished. The fallout is going be glorious and its decades in the making...

    Their housing plan is a farce... planning system needs major overhaul. I'd stop all hotel projects in Dublin, not currently under construction. Stop all new data centre projects not under construction. Rezone all commercial sites, to residential, if appropriate for residential. Way higher minimum densities, not just what is most profitable for developers...

    Thats just a handful of things that need to be done... they think tinkering around the edges is enough, the situation is going to get worse and worse. I cant decide if they are absolute morons or just that morally corrupt...



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't know how much more needs to be done to wake up FG and their core support base that they are losing their younger voters and Sinn Fein will tax their wealth and their pension contributions if they don't start getting some houses completed and available for sale. It is every day news now. If they keep sticking to a plan that will start to deliver houses in 3 years from now they are done.



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  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They may be looking to keep their core base happy and let Sinn Fein have a term.

    Their core base don't seem to realise this will cost them a lot of money in a wealth tax and pension fund threshold reductions.

    A lot of the FG TDs are quite well paid in their original careers, mostly being professional people, so they won't go hungry.

    Their core base is over 65 and relatively wealthy. Maybe an article is needed on how a Sinn Fein government would impact on someone in this demographic. Bring it home for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Have a term? It’s one thing voting SF in. It’s a completely different thing voting them out. Don’t think for a second that the two ladies leading SF will be running the show. Make no mistake about it, major decisions about how the country is run will be made in West Belfast. And the lads up there will get their message across in no uncertain terms.

    Despite taking the reins of a booming economy, they are being handed a bag of shite. Same poxy health service that’s been in place since the inception of the State, massive and growing welfare state, inflation, housing crisis, immigration, ridiculous environmental agenda, shrinking middle class despite growing incomes and then there’s crime.

    The two main parties on government may well just let them at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,510 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I've no confidence in SF but I think they will do very well in the next GE because people want to give FF/FG a kicking.

    Always give my number 1 to the independant candidate because they are most interested in local issues.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The independent may be the way to go but if the swing vote - middle class 30/40 years olds- vote for independents then it will again be a FF/FG coalition.

    We have to do something different as they are not bringing enough affordable houses to the market.

    Talking about SF being controlled from West Belfast is falling on deaf ears.

    Couldn't give a damn who is the main party in government for the next 5 year term so long as they are the ones who build the most affordable houses. Nothing else matters to me until that bridge is crossed.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    SF are (ludicrously) vociferously opposed to the only wealth tax that exists in Ireland at the moment, so I wouldn't be too sure any wealthy retirees have much to worry about.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    God forbid SF would try and take two sides of a position at the same time 🙄

    There is nothing wrong in what I said - SF are opposed to the only wealth tax in existence in Ireland. They are incredibly fond of income taxes, but that will be less of an issue for those retired obviously. Maybe they actually will bring in another wealth tax, but its hard to know because they lack any consistency in their position, which is a benefit of opposition (and not one unique to them).

    Ultimately, I suspect the voting demographic of those who own wealth/property is larger than those who cannot access housing.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Closest we can get to knowing that is the Red C polls and they have Sinn Fein as the most popular party at the moment.

    Last time Sinn Fein underestimated their support and ran too few candidates. They could have had 2 TDs in many constituencies where they just ran one candidate.

    FG + FF + Greens managed to get 82 from 160 seats (51.25%)

    Sinn Fein will get at least two more seats from these 82 seats next time out. It will be a very messy composition next time.

    This is the equivalent of screaming at FG and they are just not hearing it.

    Talking sh1t about SF is not working, we are voting against FG rather than for SF in the swing vote area.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Oh, I would be absolutely shocked if they are not the largest party. Who knows what will happen after that.

    There is a reason pretty much all parties pay heed to housing problems (to different degrees I will grant you) while simultaneously constantly objecting on a local level. There is very little appetite among particularly the largest voting population to do anything about the issue - or at least a refusal to face the reality of what that means.

    Home ownership (who probably don't want to lose value in their homes) is still at 68%.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the deciders could very well be the homeowners that are parents, grandparents, uncles and aunts.........



This discussion has been closed.
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