Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

All Homes to be re-valued for Property Tax in November 2021

1456810

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I think they are taking the piss with proposed valuations. A house 2 doors down from my Dads house went for 120,000 under the proposed band they put my Dads house in.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Huh?

    Its self valuation. You either

    A accept revenues proposed valuation OR

    B propose your own

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    As far as I can tell, the Revenue are not setting any valuation bands. They are simply publishing the guidance being provided by individual local authorities, which same councillors have annually reviewed LPT and raised or lowered it in their counties according to their electoral needs. So as I've pointed out, there can be significant differences between the default valuation between adjacent counties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭kheb


    You cannot "accept" Revenue's estimated valuation for your geographical area. You need to estimate what band the market value of your property falls into.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Have a look at Cork or Wicklow on https://lpt.revenue.ie/lpt-web/valuation-guide/index.htm

    You can practically pick out the county boundaries by looking at the variation in colour between their expectations and those of neighbouring CoCos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    You cannot just accept the band revenue have put.

    you have to put your own valuation and be able to stand over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭cubatahavana




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Of course you can


    If they suggest a band then you can put that as your valuation.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Correct. They didnt set any bands. They put properties into proposed/guideline bands.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭kheb


    Unfortunately, you are 100% wrong. The following is from Revenue's website,

    "Local property Tax (LPT) is a self-assessed tax, based on your own valuation of your property, as at 1 November 2021.

    You can value your property, as at 1 November 2021, by referring to the interactive valuation tool that Revenue has provided to guide you. The next page in this section explains how to use the interactive valuation tool.

    You can also refer to other information sources and advice to help you to determine the market value of your property. The Other information sources for valuation page in this section has more advice on using those sources to help you to value your property.

    The interactive valuation tool and other sources will provide indicative average values for properties in an area. The average valuation band for properties in your immediate area, as indicated by the interactive valuation tool, may not reasonably reflect the value of your own property. It is important that you also consider the specifics of your own property. Your property may have certain unique features that you should take into account when determining its value."

    The suggested band is based on your geographical area and not your individual property.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I just popped on to the site having gotten a message from my brother laughing about them bumping up a property he owns - and is selling - to the next band.

    I check mine and they had bumped it up by 2 bands. Cork City Council are having a laugh if they think properties in my area are worth what they claim.

    Anyway, I checked the property price register and all the houses sold recently in my immediate area are in line with my original valuation, and thanks to the re-jigging of the bands my property tax is around €150 less than last year. So I paid it straight away.

    It's actually a lovely feeling knowing I won't be trying to find a few hundred quid in the New Year to pay the LPT.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Using very slightly different shades of orange on the map tool is completely stupid. I am having a hard time figuring specifically which band I'm in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭wench


    Just click on the area, and the exact band will pop up



  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ha. I totally missed that.

    They have me 1 band higher than I'd have put myself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Accepting the proposed valuation gives you no protection if it is below market value and you are asked to justify it!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    Revenue have said publicly they aren't going to contest lower self-assessed valuations.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/local-property-tax-revenue-will-not-contest-lower-self-assessed-values-1.4689022



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭kheb


    “The Revenue Commissioners has said it will not challenge people valuing properties lower than its own guidance in an online valuation tool to be used for calculating local property tax.”

    If the market value of your property is lower than the valuation, then rightly the homeowner will use the lower market value.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I would say they won't challenge just because you're lower than their suggestion, but they will surely do some basic analysis and look for anomalies and challenge those.

    Like if you live in a development of identical houses where you are the only house in a lower bracket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    That doesnt prove me wrong though


    Revenue puts you in a suggested band.


    Its possible to just go in and value your property in the same band without any research. Or you can ignore the deadlines and then let revenue start deducting from your salary based on their suggested band. Both of those actions are an effective "acceptance" of the revenues suggested band it placed you in.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We are 3 times what we were last year. Most unaffected though apparently...



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭dublin49


    I know of a house purchased in June 2021 for 495k that is in the 600k+ Band on the revenue's map.The house needs upgrading but still the 440 - 525 band would be the correct one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    My dad said last night he hoped revenue would ask to buy his house for what they think its worth.

    They've overvalued it by a couple of hundred thousand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭Living Off The Splash


    Dun Laoghaire Rathdown assessment of my property puts me on band 17. Why I put in my Eircode on the revenue website I am on band 12. The revenue website also says that they take 5 property sales in the area to base their calculations. This is a problem for me as there has only been one sale in 20 years. The fact that someone paid over the odds for this house should not mean that everyone has to base their valuations on this one sale...


    "The average valuation bands for each area have been calculated based on:

    • property valuations as at 1 May 2013 that were submitted to Revenue for the first valuation period
    • information produced by the CSO on property price trends between 2013 and 2020
    • and
    • information on property sales between 2018 and 2020 from Revenue’s Stamp Duty records.

    Information on property sales is only applied in the calculation for a Small Area if there were more than five properties sold in that Small Area between 2018 and 2020."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I f****** hate this f****** property tax s*** !

    Maybe I should run my affairs through that empty office in Fitzwilliam square where the government facilitates tax avoidance by money laundering criminals and millionaire s/billionaires.

    It's a not very funny joke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭kheb


    Please read Revenue's guidance. "As Local Property Tax (LPT) is a self-assessed tax, you are responsible for assessing whether the average valuation band for your area does or does not apply to your own property. If the average valuation band on the valuation tool map does not reflect your property’s value, you should refer to the other information sources described on the next page." https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/valuing-your-property/interactive-valuation-tool.aspx



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I'm so not buying that.

    My property increased by 2 bands. But checking the 2013 valuations, and the PPR, it's 'worth' maybe 20k more now. I can't find one house that was sold within a 15 minute walk from mine that made what revenue says is the valuation band for the area. My area became part of Cork City when the boundaries moved so that might explain Cork City Council getting silly with their estimates.

    I suspect every property got bumped up based on general increase in property prices and they hope a lot of people will just go with revenue's suggestion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Doing as you suggest could put you in breach of your obligations if the revenue suggested band is lower than the band it should be in.

    Not paying Lpt in full can have very nasty consequences. A default acceptance is not an acceptance at all and is a breach of your obligations to know the value of the property.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    You always post sh!te like this :)

    Stuff like "oohh revenue will skin you alive and eat your first born if you dont do this".

    Dont be so dramatic.

    Revenue have given guidleines. They are out by miles.

    Just value your house at a fair idea of what you think its worth (see what the closest similar house in the same condition recently sold for). If yours is worse condition value it less, if its better value it the same. Revenue will be happy with that as long as you dont take the p!ss altogether.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You clearly have no idea of the consequences of underpaying LPT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Took a closer look at the bands for my immediate area and was quite surprised. The band states €201k to €262k ( I think), whilst not doubting there are some substantial properties near me (quite rural) there's not been a house sold within 6 km of me in nearly 10 years and my town land clearly showing on the map.

    Being generous, my own humble abode (cottage) is valued at €160k , I'm certainly no way near €201k valuation. I'll be sticking to my valuation whenever I get the nod to self assess.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And that is exactly what you are supposed to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Yes indeed , am just curious we're they are getting their valuations from re my own band , there's a lot of properties near me with a similar valuation as mine of €150 to €170k , quite a gap to reach revenues €201k

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Point us to some real cases please, so I can read all about it these devastating consequences :)

    Until then its just you over egging the consequences and talking about the big bad boogy man as usual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Seems reasonable to me and I have to agree Revenue are way out in my own area. I will stick my valuation , there is bound to be a small cohort who'll chance their arm and who knows what the consequences will be but in the short term Revenue have said they won't be disputing self assessed valuations ( For Now)

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet





  • Another farce. I’m one of the world’s biggest eejits out there. As soon as I got Revenue notice in ROS I acted and accepted their valuation and set the recommended debit. Then in media I’m hearing I should be undervaluing my property. Elsewhere I have been told I’m a fool to be paying my TV license.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    That's about it, but note that it's the local authorities where the default valuations are coming from. It's not Revenue chancing their arm and hoping that people will accept defaults. Revenue just collect the tax on behalf of the county councils etc. Personally I've no great issue with LPT if I perceive that a) it's fairly loaded and b) we see benefit for it locally.

    Looking at our area, I have my doubts on both counts in case of a) it's obvious they are underassessing properties in towns and villages, probably to minimise electoral kickback and b) I see little evidence of local authority spending outside same towns & villages. I suppose they might put down a bit of tar every dozen years or so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭dublin49


    looking at the suggested bands for my area they are definitely overvalued by one band at least,probably on the basis most will risk the band below the suggested one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Where does the letter appear in the revenue website



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    From Revenue.ie; Revenue will issue you with a letter (through MyAccount, Revenue Online Service (ROS) or the post) in advance of the valuation date of 1 November 2021. Your Property ID and PIN will be included and these are also shown on any previous LPT correspondence you may have received from Revenue.

    Normally if something comes into your Revenue MyAccount or your ROS inbox, you'll get an email notification to let you know to looking in tour documents section where there should be a PDF of the letter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Thanks. Going by their new bands I'll actually be paying less than I was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Obviously you never got a demand for 10% of your previous years tax bill because of LPT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Thanks, I was wondering too, I've received nothing albeit I'm set up for lpt since it started through myaccount

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    No I didnt. I dont know anyone who did either.

    Do you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    You would only have pay a % surcharge until your LPT underpayment had been cleared. Unless your property is in the top band and/or your tax bill is very very low the difference between the real value and the declared value will be very minor.

    Claw Hammer is correct though that just because Revenue have given you a suggested valuation, doesn't make it correct. If in 3 years' time you sell the house declared at 250k for 750k, you will be required to either clear the underpayment or to explain the discrepancy. "I just accepted the suggested valuation" isn't a good enough excuse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You have to pay a surcharge if there's been an underpayment of LPT in a tax year. Even if you clear the underpayment there is no guarantee that the surcharge will be reversed. In some cases the LPT people will rebate some of the surcharge but not all. Underpaying LPT can result in nasty consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭DubLad69


    Do you need to declare a value on a property that is currently in the process of being built?

    Or does it need to be done once complete next year?



  • Advertisement
Advertisement