All Homes to be re-valued for Property Tax in November 2021

L1011

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If the price of houses drops over the next few years can you change the valuation downwards?

Option to change value will be every 3 years, it would seem

Bobtheman

We don't pay huge taxes in terms of the EU income tax wise but we get **** all in terms of services.
**** all health and **** all social housing.
Going to a doctor in Dublin costs 65 euro for **** sake.
Pretty poor childcare etc

Ace2007

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If the price of houses drops over the next few years can you change the valuation downwards?

If it rises in the interim would you tell them? It kinda of works both ways - but everyone only wants it to work in way that favours them

Geuze

Bobtheman wrote: »

We don't pay huge taxes in terms of the EU income tax wise but we get **** all in terms of services.
**** all health and **** all social housing.
Going to a doctor in Dublin costs 65 euro for **** sake.
Pretty poor childcare etc

Is it really 65?

A GP in France charges 25.

In Germany, 30.

ebayissues

If you're in the 300-350k bracket, there's no change right?

Larbre34

Geuze wrote: »

Is it really 65?

A GP in France charges 25.

In Germany, 30.

In many surgeries in Dublin yes it would be 65.

I'd like to see that downward valuations are possible in the legislation, I wouldn't trust it for a second to be merely implied.

Dav010

Geuze wrote: »

Is it really 65?

A GP in France charges 25.

In Germany, 30.

Is there a health tax in Germany & France?

Larbre34

Dav010 wrote: »

Is there a health tax in Germany & France?

I can't speak for France but I have lived and worked in Germany. Income tax progresses from 1% up to 45% and you separately pay 5% society tax (prsi by any other name) on everything you earn. Overall I found personal tax more onerous in Germany than here at home, but public services are very good, where I lived anyway. There are also local domestic council taxes.

Dav010

Larbre34 wrote: »

I can't speak for France but I have lived and worked in Germany. Income tax progresses from 1% up to 45% and you separately pay 5% society tax (prsi by any other name) on everything you earn. Overall I found personal tax more onerous in Germany than here at home, but public services are very good, where I lived anyway. There are also local domestic council taxes.

There is compulsory health insurance in both. I wonder how Irish people would react to having to pay up to 10% of gross wage, so they can pay €25 to see a GP.

tjhook

Dav010 wrote: »

There is compulsory health insurance in both. I wonder how Irish people would react to having to pay up to 10% of gross wage, so they can pay €25 to see a GP.

Would that be like PRSI and USC? For me these are almost 10% of my gross salary, plus I pay for health insurance. And then €60-65 per GP visit.

Ace2007

tjhook wrote: »

Would that be like PRSI and USC? For me these are almost 10% of my gross salary, plus I pay for health insurance. And then €60-65 per GP visit.

Buf your health insurance is anyway half decent, you should be getting up to 75% of the GP back, and then you can claim the balance of 20% when you do your tax review at end of each year.

So if your GP was 60 quid, you get 45 back, and then of the 15 left you would get 3 euro back at end of year, so it actually only cost you 12 euro

tjhook

Ace2007 wrote: »

Buf your health insurance is anyway half decent, you should be getting up to 75% of the GP back, and then you can claim the balance of 20% when you do your tax review at end of each year.

So if your GP was 60 quid, you get 45 back, and then of the 15 left you would get 3 euro back at end of year, so it actually only cost you 12 euro

The health insurance for my family isn't that good. If it was, it would cost a lot more. Whereas with the German system, as well as a ceiling on contributions, I would expect my contributions to to cover/insure the family.

hmmm

We're the only country in the world where the "socialist" parties are fighting for the property owners.

I've never understood why I have had to pay 50% on my income above around 30,000 a year, yet someone in a million euro house pays little to nothing. We both depend on services from the state.

I've never understood why someone from a poor family pays 50% on their income, while someone who inherits a million pays only a small fraction of that.

We have a deeply dysfunctional tax system which punishes work, rewards being born into a rich family and entrenches inequality. And despite me being on the right side when it comes to politics, it's obvious to me that this is unfair - and in any other country this would be repeated by the so-called parties of the left, but in Ireland apparently this is something they are happy to encourage. Mental.

Dav010

hmmm wrote: »

We're the only country in the world where the "socialist" parties are fighting for the property owners.

I've never understood why I have had to pay 50% on my income above around 30,000 a year, yet someone in a million euro house pays little to nothing. We both depend on services from the state.

I've never understood why someone from a poor family pays 50% on their income, while someone who inherits a million pays only a small fraction of that.

We have a deeply dysfunctional tax system which punishes work, rewards being born into a rich family and entrenches inequality. And despite me being on the right side when it comes to politics, it's obvious to me that this is unfair - and in any other country this would be repeated by the so-called parties of the left, but in Ireland apparently this is something they are happy to encourage. Mental.

Isn’t CAT on inheritance 33%?

elperello

Dav010 wrote: »

Isn’t CAT on inheritance 33%?

It is, above whatever threshold relief which applies.

In the case of a son or daughter the threshold is €335,000.

Ace2007

hmmm wrote: »

We're the only country in the world where the "socialist" parties are fighting for the property owners.

I've never understood why I have had to pay 50% on my income above around 30,000 a year, yet someone in a million euro house pays little to nothing. We both depend on services from the state.

I've never understood why someone from a poor family pays 50% on their income, while someone who inherits a million pays only a small fraction of that.

We have a deeply dysfunctional tax system which punishes work, rewards being born into a rich family and entrenches inequality. And despite me being on the right side when it comes to politics, it's obvious to me that this is unfair - and in any other country this would be repeated by the so-called parties of the left, but in Ireland apparently this is something they are happy to encourage. Mental.

Most millionaires don't rely on the state though.

CGT is 33% which is high.

Fair enough if they are millionaires they should employ smart financial/estate planners to reduce the tax bills, but to be fair in most cases this is available to even the poor, except they either don't know about it, or won't pay the planner his 500 euro an hour fee.

elperello

hmmm wrote: »

We're the only country in the world where the "socialist" parties are fighting for the property owners.

I've never understood why I have had to pay 50% on my income above around 30,000 a year, yet someone in a million euro house pays little to nothing. We both depend on services from the state.

I've never understood why someone from a poor family pays 50% on their income, while someone who inherits a million pays only a small fraction of that.

We have a deeply dysfunctional tax system which punishes work, rewards being born into a rich family and entrenches inequality. And despite me being on the right side when it comes to politics, it's obvious to me that this is unfair - and in any other country this would be repeated by the so-called parties of the left, but in Ireland apparently this is something they are happy to encourage. Mental.

Someone living in a million euro house pays €1755 in LPT and pays the same income tax on a €30,000 income as anyone else.

If you are a "right side" voter what does it matter to you what the "parties of the left" do to fight their own corner?

Jizique

elperello wrote: »

It is, above whatever threshold relief which applies.

In the case of a son or daughter the threshold is €335,000.

Right, so I have a good job, pay plenty of tax, save hard, buy a house costing 750k in SCD, one kid; let’s assume I buy at peak market, pay mortgage for 25 years paying €1m in total or 40k a year, die 30 years after buying the house, and now my kid has to pay 33% on €415k.
That is a complete joke on an asset paid for out of after tax income - the tax should only be on any increase in value of the asset adjusted for inflation, not on the absolute value.

Geuze

Dav010 wrote: »

Is there a health tax in Germany & France?

I know less about France, but yes, most people have compulsory public health insurance.

It covers 70% of GP fee, so you must pay 7.50 yourself.


I know more about Germany, they have four social insurances:

(1) pension insurance
(2) health insurance
(3) unemployment insurance
(4) LT care insurance


Social Security Contributions in Germany

https://www.gtai.de/gtai-en/invest/investment-guide/employees-and-social-security/the-german-social-security-system-65600

(in % of gross wage)

Employer/Employee Share


18.6% pension insurance
9.3% employer
9.3% employee

14.6% health insurance
7.3% employer
7.3% employee

2.4% unemployment insurance
1.2% employer
1.2% employee

3.05% nursing care insurance
1.525% employer
1.525% employee

1.14% accident insurance
1.14% employer

Geuze

Dav010 wrote: »

There is compulsory health insurance in both. I wonder how Irish people would react to having to pay up to 10% of gross wage, so they can pay €25 to see a GP.

The French health insurance covers 70%-80% of GP fees and hosp fees.

Many people in France then buy optional extra insurance to cover the 20%-30%.

Ace2007

Jizique wrote: »

Right, so I have a good job, pay plenty of tax, save hard, buy a house costing 750k in SCD, one kid; let’s assume I buy at peak market, pay mortgage for 25 years paying €1m in total or 40k a year, die 30 years after buying the house, and now my kid has to pay 33% on €415k.
That is a complete joke on an asset paid for out of after tax income - the tax should only be on any increase in value of the asset adjusted for inflation, not on the absolute value.

No, there are ways around it, if your "kid" wanted the house you could arrange it to be inherited tax free - either by the dwelling house exemption, or you could take out a section 72 insurance product.

I'm sure those in SCD are well aware of the different ways of getting around tax.

Jerry Attrick

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'd like to see that downward valuations are possible in the legislation, I wouldn't trust it for a second to be merely implied.

That option has been there ever since the LPT was introduced.

Bear in mind that as it's a self-assessment tax, it was up to you to tell them the value of your house (unless you accepted their original valuation); then if you subsequently realise that you've over-valued it then you contact Revenue (in writing) explain the position and ask them to place you on a lower (or higher!) band. Note that they could come back and ask you for some supporting evidence from recent sales in your area.

I've done this in the past for people who had simply accepted the LPT band that Revenue originally assigned them to, although that had completely overvalued their home.

Jerry Attrick

Jizique wrote: »

Right, so I have a good job, pay plenty of tax, save hard, buy a house costing 750k in SCD, one kid; let’s assume I buy at peak market, pay mortgage for 25 years paying €1m in total or 40k a year, die 30 years after buying the house, and now my kid has to pay 33% on €415k.
That is a complete joke on an asset paid for out of after tax income - the tax should only be on any increase in value of the asset adjusted for inflation, not on the absolute value.

I suggest that you write to the Minister and let him know your thoughts.

bilbot79

How does this work with new builds? I would presume the band you are in represents the Ex-VAT price i.e. the price that is recorded in the property register

lawrencesummers

Jizique wrote: »

Right, so I have a good job, pay plenty of tax, save hard, buy a house costing 750k in SCD, one kid; let’s assume I buy at peak market, pay mortgage for 25 years paying €1m in total or 40k a year, die 30 years after buying the house, and now my kid has to pay 33% on €415k.
That is a complete joke on an asset paid for out of after tax income - the tax should only be on any increase in value of the asset adjusted for inflation, not on the absolute value.

CGT on a families principle private residence is disgusting.

What’s worse is that children are inheriting the family home and have to sell it to satisfy the tax bill.

Himnydownunder

NIMAN wrote: »

Pascal said today it should raise an extra €150mill.

Not to be sniffed at.

Time to cough up for the money printing during the pandemic.

Wanderer78

Himnydownunder wrote:

Time to cough up for the money printing during the pandemic.

No need for it at all, bloody fiscal conservatives, they're bloody lethal

3DataModem

bilbot79 wrote: »

How does this work with new builds? I would presume the band you are in represents the Ex-VAT price i.e. the price that is recorded in the property register

This is a great question.

Because the tax is based on "market value" it will be inclusive of VAT, but for those using the property price register to justify a self-valuation, this will drag the calculation down.

Darc19

Jizique wrote: »

Right, so I have a good job, pay plenty of tax, save hard, buy a house costing 750k in SCD, one kid; let’s assume I buy at peak market, pay mortgage for 25 years paying €1m in total or 40k a year, die 30 years after buying the house, and now my kid has to pay 33% on €415k.
That is a complete joke on an asset paid for out of after tax income - the tax should only be on any increase in value of the asset adjusted for inflation, not on the absolute value.

Isn't almost everything paid out of after tax income?

In your example, your child will be very well off having €625,000 net cash handed to them.

But with a mortgage of 750,000, you would need to be on a salary of circa 180,000 so I would suspect that you'd have built up a decent pension too where the contributions were from your gross earnings and saved you 40% in taxes.

Of course we could return to high levels of stamp duty. That 750k house in 2007, unless new, would have had stamp duty of €45,000.

That was unfair and the property charge came in to replace that.

beggars_bush

I think its only just and fair that every home owner pays property tax.