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All Homes to be re-valued for Property Tax in November 2021

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    It is paltry the impact this will have. 1/3 of those already paying need to pay an extra 100euro per year and 60% have no increase. It's nothing essentially and I'm surpised it's even being reported as it is so meaningless.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Band 3 to Band 5 or 6 for me, +180 or +275; bit more than 100! Going to be similar for a lot of people who put a realistic rather than optimistic value on in 2012.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭ Ace2007


    Sure it's only going to be for a few year - SF are totally against it - so when they get in power it'll be scraped:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭ cubatahavana


    I suppose all the houses built from 2013 will have a somewhat important impact? I bought in December a new build and was not aware that I didn’t have to pay property tax. I don’t really see the sense on being exempt


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭ SusanC10


    L1011 wrote: »
    Band 3 to Band 5 or 6 for me, +180 or +275; bit more than 100! Going to be similar for a lot of people who put a realistic rather than optimistic value on in 2012.

    Do you think that they might change the Bands or increase the amounts in each band ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭ ForestFire


    I suppose all the houses built from 2013 will have a somewhat important impact? I bought in December a new build and was not aware that I didn’t have to pay property tax. I don’t really see the sense on being exempt

    I am paying property tax, but also never relasise houses built from 2013 are not paying this tax....

    How did this ever come about, that people with newer houses do not have to pay this tax, like the rest of us!!

    That's 8 years of missed taxes by some houses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭ Jerry Attrick


    It is paltry the impact this will have. 1/3 of those already paying need to pay an extra 100euro per year and 60% have no increase. It's nothing essentially and I'm surpised it's even being reported as it is so meaningless.


    That's a strange point of view.

    I'd see the addition of some 100,000 homes into the LPT scheme as being of some significance. Especially as it's likely to bring in an extra €300m annually to the exchequer.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    Do you think that they might change the Bands or increase the amounts in each band ?

    There was a suggestion they might reduce the rate, so the bands would stay the same but the tax per band would go down.

    I think that could actually be what's intended now, if they expect anyone to get a decrease and that volume in the middle to stay the same - prices have risen significantly since 2012 so I doubt there's 10% that haven't!




    The additional tax take is going to have a significant impact to the Greater Dublin Area councils over the others, my own town in particularly easily has a thousand units built since 2013.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,350 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Pascal said today it should raise an extra €150mill.

    Not to be sniffed at.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭ wench


    ForestFire wrote: »
    I am paying property tax, but also never relasise houses built from 2013 are not paying this tax....

    How did this ever come about, that people with newer houses do not have to pay this tax, like the rest of us!!

    That's 8 years of missed taxes by some houses.
    This tax came in the year after the mortgage tax relief at source was removed.
    The exemption on new builds was supposed to be a temporary measure to ease that blow, and to encourage people towards new builds, much as the help to buy scheme does now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,163 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    ForestFire wrote: »
    I am paying property tax, but also never relasise houses built from 2013 are not paying this tax....

    How did this ever come about, that people with newer houses do not have to pay this tax, like the rest of us!!

    That's 8 years of missed taxes by some houses.

    Plus houses in "unfinished estates" don't pay LPT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,163 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    ForestFire wrote: »
    I am paying property tax, but also never relasise houses built from 2013 are not paying this tax....

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/housing_taxes_and_reliefs/local_property_tax_exemptions.html

    Exemptions from Local Property Tax

    Introduction
    Certain properties are exempt from the Local Property Tax. Some people may be able to defer payment of the tax if they meet specified criteria. You can read more about deferring payment of LPT.

    Exemption for residential properties purchased in 2013
    Any person who purchased a property in 2013 qualifies for an exemption from LPT once they occupy the property as their sole or main residence. This exemption remains until the next valuation date, 1 November 2021 (the valuation date was due to be 1 November 2019, but this was extended for a year (pdf) and then further extended for another year (pdf)).

    If you purchased a secondhand property in 2013 and qualify for this exemption, you can claim your exemption online. Instructions on how to claim the exemption are available on the Revenue website.



    Properties that are exempt from Local Property Tax
    Properties purchased in 2013 are exempt until the end of 2021 if used as your sole or main residence. If the property is subsequently sold or ceases to be your main residence between 2013 and 2020, the exemption no longer applies.

    Properties that were self-built between 1 January and 1 May 2013 are exempt until the end of 2021 if used as your sole or main residence. If the property is subsequently sold, the exemption no longer applies.

    Properties that are self-built after 1 May 2013 and before 1 November 2021 are not liable for LPT until 2021 (even if sold again in that period).

    New and previously unused properties purchased from a builder or developer between 1 January 2013 and before 1 November 2021 are exempt until the end of 2021 (even if sold again in that period).

    Residential properties constructed and owned by a builder or developer that remain unsold and have not yet been used as dwellings (known as trading stock).

    Certain properties situated in unfinished housing estates (commonly called “ghost estates”) specified in the Finance (Local Property Tax) Regulations 2013.

    Properties certified as having a significant level of pyrite damage. The exemption for properties that have significant pyritic damage was extended by the Finance (Local Property Tax) (Amendment) Act 2015. This exemption applies to residential properties that have been shown to have a significant level of pyrite damage. In these cases, the properties will be exempt for approximately 6 years. You can read the detailed guidelines (pdf)

    Residential properties owned by a charity or a public body and used to provide accommodation and support for people who have a particular need in addition to a general housing need to enable them to live in the community (for example, sheltered housing for the elderly or people with disabilities).

    Registered nursing homes.

    Properties vacated by their owners due to illness. This exemption applies to a property which was occupied by a person as his or her sole or main residence and has been vacated by the person for 12 months or more due to long-term mental or physical infirmity. An exemption may be available in situations where the property has been empty for less than 12 months, if a doctor (registered practitioner) is satisfied that the person is unlikely to return to the property. In both cases, the exemption only applies where the property is not occupied by another person.

    If a person qualified for the nursing home exemption on 1 May 2013, the property remains exempt until the next valuation date, 1 November 2021 (the 2013 valuation date was due to expire on 1 November 2019, but this was extended for a year (pdf) and then further extended for another year (pdf)). Even if the person dies and the property is sold, the exemption stays with the property. However, if a person qualified for the exemption after the original valuation date, 1 May 2013, then the exemption only lasts as long as the conditions under which the exemption was granted. If the individual who owns the property dies, then the property becomes liable for LPT at the next liability date (1 November of each year).


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    Dunno.. I don't like the idea of re-evaluating at a point in time where property is in massive, massive demand due to covid shortages, etc. Surely means most people will have their home valued at more than it will be worth in summer 2022 when things (hopefully) go back to "normal".


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,350 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Geuze wrote: »
    Plus houses in "unfinished estates" don't pay LPT.

    Yet they ask homeowners whose houses have Mica and are falling down, to pay it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,502 ✭✭✭✭ TheValeyard


    KKV wrote: »
    Dunno.. I don't like the idea of re-evaluating at a point in time where property is in massive, massive demand due to covid shortages, etc. Surely means most people will have their home valued at more than it will be worth in summer 2022 when things (hopefully) go back to "normal".

    I was realistic with my evaluation back in 2012. Looks like I will get heavily screwed over by this. Shouldnt have been honest.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭ C14N


    Sinn Féin's housing spokesperson Eoin Ó Broin has said the property tax should be abolished, rather than expanded to include new homes built since 2013.

    He said the property tax was not progressive and there was a more equitable way to approach things.

    I don't understand this argument. How is property tax regressive? If your property has a higher value, you pay more, and property owners in general are more likely to have higher wealth than non-property owners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,350 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Its just SF being populist.
    Its what opposition parties do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭ Jizique


    C14N wrote: »
    I don't understand this argument. How is property tax regressive? If your property has a higher value, you pay more, and property owners in general are more likely to have higher wealth than non-property owners.

    It’s SF economics, promise something to everyone.
    It is the closest tax we have to a wealth tax, if properly applied.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭ SusanC10


    I was realistic with my evaluation back in 2012. Looks like I will get heavily screwed over by this. Shouldnt have been honest.

    Can you explain how being realistic back in 2012 means people are screwed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭ Murph85


    I read in the Irish times it would raise 561 million extra ... homes built since 2013 being exempt is a disgrace... taxing people at 50p euro on the thousand over a pittance is grand... but people paying an extra euro a week on this, will cause uproar... totally ridiculous ridiculous. I'd be in favour of implementing a proper lpt or scrap it...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,163 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze


    Murph85 wrote: »
    I read in the Irish times it would raise 561 million extra ... ...

    Mistake by reporter.

    LPT now = 500m approx

    After these changes = 560m


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭ bilbot79


    Great. Bought a new build this year and only found out by this piece of news that new builds haven't been incurring property tax. The Lord giveth...and he taketh away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭ cubatahavana


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Great. Bought a new build this year and only found out by this piece of news that new builds haven't been incurring property tax. The Lord giveth...and he taketh away.

    exact same as me. I went to register on the revenue website and found out I didn't have to pay it


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    C14N wrote: »
    I don't understand this argument. How is property tax regressive? If your property has a higher value, you pay more, and property owners in general are more likely to have higher wealth than non-property owners.

    Lots of SF voters living in high value housing in the cities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭ Murph85


    Geuze wrote: »
    Mistake by reporter.

    LPT now = 500m approx

    After these changes = 560m

    60 million? Lol ! That figure did seem way too high, I remember lpt bringing In a pittance... suppose it will keep the lights on in the coutry for a few minutes though...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭ howiya


    C14N wrote: »
    I don't understand this argument. How is property tax regressive? If your property has a higher value, you pay more, and property owners in general are more likely to have higher wealth than non-property owners.

    Property tax is regressive because there is no consideration of an individuals ability to pay.

    Very simplistic example. Eoin O'Broin and his neighbour own houses with equal value or within the same band. Eoin earns a TDs salary while the neighbour earns 30-40k a year yet they will pay the same amount of LPT.

    On the other hand income tax is progressive because Eoin will pay more than the neighbour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭ howiya


    Murph85 wrote: »
    60 million? Lol ! That figure did seem way too high, I remember lpt bringing In a pittance... suppose it will keep the lights on in the coutry for a few minutes though...

    RTE.ie saying will increase from 480-490m to 560m with most of the increase as a result of the inclusion of the new builds from 2013 onwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,319 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    howiya wrote: »
    Property tax is regressive because there is no consideration of an individuals ability to pay.

    Very simplistic example. Eoin O'Broin and his neighbour own houses with equal value or within the same band. Eoin earns a TDs salary while the neighbour earns 30-40k a year yet they will pay the same amount of LPT.

    On the other hand income tax is progressive because Eoin will pay more than the neighbour.

    It may be the least worst way of assessing owners for property tax. The counter argument to your example is the person earning less may have lower outgoings than EO’B, or may have paid considerably less for the house. So valuing properties in bands may be the fairest, everyone hates it equally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,339 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1


    I understood quite incorrectly only properties in un finished /ghost estates where exempt from this offensive Tax, not all houses built after 2013, am I understanding this correctly?

    If true, its outrageous and surely legally questionable. How can it be a new build house not affected by the crash debacle not be taxable, it makes absolutely no sense and extremely unfair. I've been paying property tax since the start, admitidly as I've a small restored cottage in the middle of nowhere, I'm on lower band but that's not the point.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭ Jerry Attrick


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Yet they ask homeowners whose houses have Mica and are falling down, to pay it.

    It'as a self-declaration tax. Surely anyone unfortunate enough to own such a house would value it at close to zero as it's completely unsaleable?


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