All Homes to be re-valued for Property Tax in November 2021

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

something, something "de vulnerable" who shouldnt pay any taxes, but can afford hundreds a month on cigarettes, alcohol, tv and broadband packages and expensive phone plans...

basically, they shouldnt have to pay anything, because they are crap with money... those that are good with it, should pay for themselves and others:rolleyes:

nothing like a bit of online prejudice!

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

nothing like a bit of online prejudice!

its the truth, this nonsense in ireland, "progressive" "progressive" a nice word, basically meaning, let those better off than me pay.. we have huge amounts of workers paying virtually nothing into the system, as good as no lpt, no direct water charges, as good as free motor tax on all cars... its a total banana republic taxation system!

Go after the 10-15% of high earners though and hammer them, sure everyones vote counts the same, taking the piss, but i would expect nothing less here...

Honestly, given how ridiculously beneficial the system is to non or low paid workers , any tax increases should be "regressive" in my opinion, let everyone pay and start addressing the scandalous system they created due to political short termism and thinking the celtic tiger boom "was different" and still living from it "one for everyone in the audience" legacy...

the one area I have a lot of sympathy for the low paid however, is on the housing front! But thats another farce, free housing for some of the low paid, rip off housing for hundreds of thousands of low paid...

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

its the truth, this nonsense in ireland, "progressive" "progressive" a nice word, basically meaning, let those better off than me pay.. we have huge amounts of workers paying virtually nothing into the system, as good as no lpt, no direct water charges, as good as free motor tax on all cars... its a total banana republic taxation system!

Go after the 10-15% of high earners though and hammer them, sure everyones vote counts the same, taking the piss, but i would expect nothing less here...

Honestly, given how ridiculously beneficial the system is to non or low paid workers , any tax increases should be "regressive" in my opinion, let everyone pay and start addressing the scandalous system they created due to political short termism and thinking the celtic tiger boom "was different" and still living from it "one for everyone in the audience" legacy...

the one area I have a lot of sympathy for the low paid however, is on the housing front! But thats another farce, free housing for some of the low paid, rip off housing for hundreds of thousands of low paid...

...only that its not really!

the reason why you re paying more taxes, is that we continually keep electing fiscal conservatives, that think we need to balance budgets, we dont! and always baring in mind, by doing so, you are the default in this approach, so be prepared for further tax hikes, for something that actually doesnt need to be done!

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...only that its not really!

the reason why you re paying more taxes, is that we continually keep electing fiscal conservatives, that think we need to balance budgets, we dont! and always baring in mind, by doing so, you are the default in this approach, so be prepared for further tax hikes, for something that actually doesnt need to be done!

its all well and good, in a near zero interest rate environment, what happens when you have huge debt and rates start to rise again? exactly like the last bust...

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

its all well and good, in a near zero interest rate environment, what happens when you have huge debt and rates start to rise again? exactly like the last bust...

...this is nothing like the last bust, that was a primarily credit fueled bust, i.e. private debt, this is public debt, a very different beast altogether, so different different! yes a rate rise would cause issues, but we re actually well beyond rainy day stuff now!

ForestFire

ted1 wrote: »

Because the LPT was based on 2013 houses. Houses built since had a zero value in 2013

They have a value once built, and should be added to the lpt at that point.

There is no need to wait 3 to 4 years to value a new house, let along 8 years.

Instead of give new houses a free ride, just let current houses have a potentially small saving or small cost, until the next valuation period, but new houses should be added immediately, and then update on the next valuation cycle as needed.

Geuze

Bobtheman wrote: »

T
We need to invest massively in health and housing.

We *overspend* on healthcare as it is.

Wanderer78

Geuze wrote: »

We *overspend* on healthcare as it is.

...yes i suspect this will be the approach post covid, and it wont be pretty, it ll probably be another nail in the coffin of ffg!

Ace2007

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...only that its not really!

the reason why you re paying more taxes, is that we continually keep electing fiscal conservatives, that think we need to balance budgets, we dont! and always baring in mind, by doing so, you are the default in this approach, so be prepared for further tax hikes, for something that actually doesnt need to be done!

It is true though - the harder you work, the higher paid job you get - the more you get paid, and the more you pay in tax.

Even SF and there wacky costings - they balance the books - why is that?

Where are you going to borrow money if you don't pay it back - people won't lend.

Makes me worried about some, the level of financial nonsense that you read.

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...this is nothing like the last bust, that was a primarily credit fueled bust, i.e. private debt, this is public debt, a very different beast altogether, so different different! yes a rate rise would cause issues, but we re actually well beyond rainy day stuff now!

the private debt, was turned public!

Geuze

Ace2007 wrote: »

It is true though - the harder you work, the higher paid job you get - the more you get paid, and the more you pay in tax.

Even SF and there wacky costings - they balance the books - why is that?

Where are you going to borrow money if you don't pay it back - people won't lend.

The SF budget in GE2020 is not balanced, and has a few outright mistakes in it.

Wanderer78

Ace2007 wrote: »

It is true though - the harder you work, the higher paid job you get - the more you get paid, and the more you pay in tax.

Even SF and there wacky costings - they balance the books - why is that?

Where are you going to borrow money if you don't pay it back - people won't lend.

Makes me worried about some, the level of financial nonsense that you read.

yes, the left has been infected with this crap also, governments are nothing like households, budgets do not need to be balanced, provided that the debts are serviced and serviceable throughout their life, everything is hunky dory, this is common practice globally. we must get away from this thinking that we have a limited supply of money, we effectively dont, provided the debts money is based on, are again serviced and serviceable throughout their lives. again, governments have the ability to part fund their our loans, including euro countries such as ireland, other euro countries already do this! balancing our budgets now, could have detrimental effects both socially and economically, theres no need for it, its just gonna pi$$ many people off, as taxes will be increased, to do so.

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

the private debt, was turned public!

yes we know this, again, different different!

Amadan Dubh

Idbatterim wrote: »

0-200,000 = E90?! LOL! why bother collecting it, what a farce! They are going to have to start deciding, where taxes will be hiked, because there is no appetite for austerity again, they wont cut waste here...

the taxation system here is total and utter insanity... Basically rely on a few multinationals and a small enough amount of workers to extort... as good as free motor tax, no direct water charges, as good as no property tax... What genius taxation strategy, a wonder no other country follows the irish model :rolleyes:

maybe they should up the fifty percent marginal rate, make it even less worthwhile to work , take on promotions, over time etc...

I completely agree but more taxation wouldn't be as necessary if housing wasn't so expensive as to require the State to provide so many handouts to help meet the cost of living in this country. If rents could just be 40% of their current levels, this would free up so much cash the State has to pay out currently as people would have so much more cash themselves to pay for the cost of living. I'm not just talking about those that don't work, but those that work and need some sort of rental assistance payment, for example. Then, should small increases in taxation or services levies (e.g. water charges) genuinely be required, people would be so much less outraged and willing to accept them.

Draco

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

This is usually the recommendation..... If you cannot afford it...then sell it. Or, move aside and let someone younger with a young family buy it....etc.

I have lived in this house for 27 years. Love the area. Lots of happy memories.....close to amenities.

I don't want to sell it. Each year my property tax is being paid from my accumulated savings not from new income. (already taxed accumulated savings).

Because I bought well back in the 1990's I feel that I am paying a living Capital Gains Tax rather than a Capital Gains Tax on selling. (which my children will have to pay anyway when we die).

My tax is based on nothing more than the vale of my house. It should be assessed of square footage.

There is no CGT on selling your Principal Private Residence. Buying yourself something cheaper and more maintainable replenishes your savings and decreases your outgoings. If your children don't want it, why hang on and cause yourself more hassle?

Why assume a square footage tax would be less?

(Also as an aside, inheritances are unearned by the recipients and should be taxed to absolute hilt. Spend it all while you're alive I say and get the best use out of it.)

lawrencesummers

The interesting thing in this is that 100,000 homes will be brought into the system to an have been built since 2013.


So we have built 12.5k homes per year on average since 2013.

That’s shocking, easily double that is needed and probably treble.

Bubbaclaus

Deub wrote: »

If they use REITs..
PDF from the Revenue updated in May this year: https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-25a/25a-00-01.pdf


"REITs are not chargeable to either corporation tax in respect of income from their property rental business or chargeable gains accruing on disposal of assets of their property rental business."

You are missing the key point there. Being that they need to pay out dividends each year of 85% of the income to qualify as being a REIT. And those dividends can be taxed at up to 55% in the hands of the shareholder.

So saying the REIT does not pay tax and leaving it at that with no further information is misleading.

awec

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The interesting thing in this is that 100,000 homes will be brought into the system to an have been built since 2013.


So we have built 12.5k homes per year on average since 2013.

That’s shocking, easily double that is needed and probably treble.

Where did you see this?

Amadan Dubh

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You are missing the key point there. Being that they need to pay out dividends each year of 85% of the income to qualify as being a REIT. And those dividends can be taxed at up to 55% in the hands of the shareholder.

So saying the REIT does not pay tax and leaving it at that with no further information is misleading.

But the REIT doesn't pay tax subject to that small dividend stipulation and the REIT is the one investing and receiving the rents. In addition, the majority of the shareholders aren't even Irish based so the State loses out on taxation from all of this activity which, arguably, takes mroe than it gives in terms of an economic benefit.

Living Off The Splash

Draco wrote: »

There is no CGT on selling your Principal Private Residence.

I understand this. I am just making the point that it feels like I am paying CGT on an annual basis for living in a home in a location where house are expensive.

Bubbaclaus

Amadan Dubh wrote: »

But the REIT doesn't pay tax subject to that small dividend stipulation and the REIT is the one investing and receiving the rents. In addition, the majority of the shareholders aren't even Irish based so the State loses out on taxation from all of this activity which, arguably, takes mroe than it gives in terms of an economic benefit.

Non residents would still need to pay Irish tax on the dividends as it is Irish source. And the tax rate would be higher than the 12.5% CT rate also.

lawrencesummers

awec wrote: »

Where did you see this?

Widely reported.

https://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/lpt-changes-being-done-in-interest-of-fairness-says-social-protection-minister/

awec

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Widely reported.

https://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/lpt-changes-being-done-in-interest-of-fairness-says-social-protection-minister/

Sorry, when you said 100k houses brought into the system, did you mean that there was now 100k houses going to be paying property tax?

I think I misinterpreted you, and thought you were suggesting there are 100k vacant properties that have been built since 2013.

lawrencesummers

awec wrote: »

Sorry, when you said 100k houses brought into the system, did you mean that there was now 100k houses going to be paying property tax?

I think I misinterpreted you, and thought you were suggesting there are 100k vacant properties that have been built since 2013.

Since 2013 lpt hasn’t been levied to new property. They will be now.

That’s a big reason for the quagmire we have at the moment, only 100k properties build since 2013.

C14N

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Since 2013 lpt hasn’t been levied to new property. They will be now.

That’s a big reason for the quagmire we have at the moment, only 100k properties build since 2013.

Will this apply again going forward? If property taxes are not reviewed for another 4 years, will all houses build from 21-25 also be exempt until the day comes? Which of course could also see another 4 year deferrment depending on the policital winds at the time. Or will any new purchases just be put into the system at the purchase price at the time?

Jerry Attrick

NIMAN wrote: »

Yet they ask homeowners whose houses have Mica and are falling down, to pay it.

"Homeowners in Donegal and Mayo affected by pyrite and mica will receive a temporary exemption". (RTE news)

Jerry Attrick

C14N wrote: »

Will this apply again going forward? If property taxes are not reviewed for another 4 years, will all houses build from 21-25 also be exempt until the day comes? Which of course could also see another 4 year deferrment depending on the policital winds at the time. Or will any new purchases just be put into the system at the purchase price at the time?

New homes will be brought into the system every November. (RTE news)

Jerry Attrick

DavyD_83 wrote: »

If the value of my house increases to point that I cannot afford the tax, even though I can afford the mortgage or I own the house, I should sell the house and move to a cheaper house
So now I can be priced out of the house I already bought. Fabulous!

Or you can opt to defer or part-defer the tax on the basis that you can't afford to pay it. Leave it to your kids to pay the bills!

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/deferral-of-payment/index.aspx

lawrencesummers

If the price of houses drops over the next few years can you change the valuation downwards?

C14N

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If the price of houses drops over the next few years can you change the valuation downwards?

Yes, why wouldn't they?