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Wales is like Ireland should/could have been

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,615 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    That has got to be one of the most ignorant posts on boards and that is saying something. North Wales is beautiful and there was a lot of Irish emigration to North Wales, Wrexham has a sizable Irish community, Parts of north Wales are a lot poorer than Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Have you ever, in your history of posting on Boards, had anything vaguely positive to say about Ireland or Irish people?

    You’ve lived in the US for years, right? Why do you continue frequenting a predominantly Irish forum when your posting history is replete with spiteful, inaccurate jabs about Irish people?

    Surely you can find something more productive to do with your time..



  • Posts: 0 Braylon Kind Ramp


    Ireland is way more modern than Wales. My defining memory of North Wales in particular was that it was like stepping back 40 years into some kind of 1970s time warp

    Although I do think the progress we made infrastructure wise is slowing down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Wales is in steep decline, their industries are dead and dying, that was even before Brexit, with massive societal issues such as generational unemployment and addiction rampant even in rural areas.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,944 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    I'm from North Wales, OP is right, from Caernarfon down to maybe Machynlleth the welsh language is used a LOT, The county of Gwynedd is very VERY pro wales/welsh language, bordering on flat out racism.

    I used to do a mad job back home, went to visit a publican in Criccieth, he was from Manchester and bought his dream little pub, of course he checked the books before buying and it was thriving, the second he bought it custom just died, nobody went there purely because he was English.

    I'm 100% Welsh but only speak very very basic Welsh, there's parts of Gwynedd/Mid Wales where people wouldnt talk to me because i can't speak Welsh with them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,615 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Ruthin is a bit different it's a well-off place. There is some chi chi, well of, fashionable bits of north Wales that have a significant amount of English living there or English who have second homes in the area I don't think they are the sort of places the OP is talking about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,944 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    Yeah, bit of a kip to be honest, nothing seems to ever go on there and best part of it is probably the road out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Never been myself but have relatives who live there



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭TonyD79


    Im from Dublin and have been living just outside Cardiff for the last 5 years and would have to say the total opposite applies to number one. The train service make the Dart seem like a luxury. By an large its privately run public transport and quite pricey compared to home.There are of course things they do better but by and large the standard of living is below Ireland.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I totally agree with all of OP sentiments. Welsh is pretty much omnipresent in a lot of areas of north Wales, and eg Anglesey is equivalent to a Gaeltacht area in Ireland, as is the mountainous area of Snowdonia. Throughout Wales you will hear instances of Welsh being spoken, including in the capital, Cardiff, much more so than Ireland. I find the Welsh a little more insular than Irish folk, but if you make the effort to enthuse about local culture, language etc, you will make good friends easily. Like the Scots, and indeed all Celts, they can have a quirky wry sense of humour, which can make encounters interesting. Wales is a wonderful place for a holiday with so much to see and do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭cashback


    Ruthin definitely seemed one of the nicer towns i've been to in Wales. Very close to beautiful countryside too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You hear Irish spoken pretty frequently in Gaeltacht contexts here. Where the ferry arrives in North Wales is equivalent to a Gaeltacht. Where you left from, Dublin, is the complete opposite end of the scale - a large anglophone city in the middle of an area that has been a centre of anglophone Ireland for centuries.

    If you went from Cardiff to Connemara you’d have a similar experience in terms of spoken language.

    Parts of Wales, especially the former mining areas in the south are very much post industrial and lacking in investment for a long time, but it has some very spectacular areas especially in the north too.

    The OP’s comparison is a bit deluded, but I’m also a bit disappointed to see all the Wales bashing too. It’s very much a place that we should have a lot more sense of connection with and one that shares many parallels in cultural, linguistic and historical experiences and also managed to maintain an identity, despite no physical separation from and often very unpleasant interaction with England over the centuries.

    There are lessons to be learned about how the Gaelic languages have been preserved and survive. Wales definitely has had a positive experience in recent decades with modern teaching of Welsh, and I think there has been a sharing of that experience in both directions.

    Bear in mind too that the main streaming of Welsh language in schools there only dates from 1988 with it becoming a compulsory subject in 1999.

    Welsh Language Medium education also has had a lot of two way discussions with the Gaelscoil and Gaelcholáiste movements here. They haven’t just co-existed in parallel without any interaction or discussion.

    There’s also plenty of interaction for example between TG4, S4C and BBC Alba and between cultural organisations, academics etc etc and has been for a long time.

    I think you also have to realise Irish language education has changed a lot since I suspect most of the people commenting were in school. In a lot of contexts it’s more fun, more conversational and also the Irish language medium schools have taken off in a big way in the last 20 years.

    I’ve a niece in gaelscoil and her experience of Irish is TOTALLY different to mine back in the 80s and early 90s in primary school. She’s having fun with it and it’s just absorbing.

    That’s as much about differences in time as place. Language learning and teaching has moved on.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭MSVforever


    As a foreigner I prefer Ireland over Wales big time. Yes, Wales is nice to visit and there is great scenery but I find their cities/towns (especially Cardiff) quite depressing.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Wales has the M4 motorway to London. Most of the rest isn't even dual carriage way.

    The east of the country has been swallowed up by England and the English. It's an Bhreatain Bheag. Little Britain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    While I have some pleasant memories in rural parts of Wales, if I never visit Wrexham again, it'll be too soon. One of the most depressing kips I've ever been to.

    I don't think Wales has much for Ireland to aspire towards, no.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    As I pointed out before on the thread, IMO the geography of Wales is a major factor in the country being much more Anglicised than, say, Scotland.

    Wales shares a very long land border with England, the parts of Wales close to that border - places like Newport and Wrexham - are so Anglicised you would think you are still in England. Indeed the Welsh county of Monmouthshire was annexed by England in the 15th Century and only "returned" to Wales in 1972.

    Because the central two thirds of Wales is very mountainous and sparsely populated Wales has very poor North-south connectivity and the populated South and North Welsh coasts are much closer linked into England than to each other.

    But the fact that the Welsh language has seen a very successful revival since the 1960s/70s is something Ireland should study.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    The area along the Scottish border with England is every bit and more pro union as the Welsh England border area in Wales


    Referring to the Scottish Borders



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Yes, indeed that may be, but if you look at the geography of Scotland compared to Wales, apart from being much larger in size, the border with England is short compared to the rest of the country and the urbanized, populated Central Belt of Scotland is a good bit North of the border.

    Geography definitely plays a major role in why Wales was subjugated and anglicised by England much earlier and far more thoroughly than Scotland.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx



    That is correct, Scotland ( important population areas ) are far more self sufficient, Wales relies on England nearly everywhere



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Northpole


    Why and when should the UK have tried to colonise the Dutch?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    Public amenities, local language, cheap pints .... but ... the tories, and Bojo, have a direct say on your life.


    No thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    They publish articles in the media about their teachers getting sacked, photos too.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Upforthematch


    I think there are two huge differences between the welsh and irish language situations.

    The first is that Irish is no longer a community language (including in the gaeltacht areas) - google translate this article to english if you want an example of the current state of play for a couple trying to raise their children through Irish. TL;DR - English is the language of the playground; the number of families raising their kids through Irish in Gaeltacht areas is below 30%.

    Whereas in North Wales it is a community language. Totally different story and the educational approach reflects this. I think Irish people are too harsh on themselves and on the education system. Learning any language to fluency from a textbook is tough going requiring thousands of hours of practice outside of the classroom. This isn't realistic by the time most people leave school but they can learn the basics in that time. That's not bad going for a national programme that caters for everyone without an exemption.

    The second major difference between Irish and Welsh is that Irish is not a regional language. There is no part of Ireland (in the republic anyway) where Irish is unwelcome or not considered our language. I gather that is not the case with Welsh and is certainly not the case with Scots Gaelic.

    So I think that makes Irish probably unique in the world; 100 years of langauge policy has made Irish the language equivalent of the good room. We don't use it but we don't want to lose it either.

    Not a great situation, but not a total disaster either. It just means that you won't find an opportunity to order a pint in Irish anywhere in Ireland (in the near future anyway) but you will have lots of opportunities to speak it with interested people anywhere in Ireland and enjoy interesting content.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Wales gave us Manic Street Preachers. Ireland gave us Westlife.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Ireland gave us Rory Gallagher. Wales gave us Shakin Stevens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Wales gave us Shirley Bassey, Ireland gave us Twink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Wales gave us Lost Prophets, featuring Ian Watkins. I rest my case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    The National School system in Ireland was designed to kill the Irish language. It still does, in a way

    Then you had the church not saying mass in Irish or its priests using Irish. Even protestant clergy tried to use Irish!

    Penal Laws anyone? Ffs!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The colonised mind is a terrible affliction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Weren't most of the Normans that came to Ireland Cambro Normans? The old English.

    I was working in Aberaeron many years back and got chatting to an old couple and they said the country was a bit split about the Welsh language. They said they only spoke English and were very put out by all the Welsh now being spoke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Wales gave us Dylan Thomas, Ireland gave us Michael Daniel Higgins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭boardise


    'Genocide' ? Caused language change in Ireland ? LOL.

    This is clueless rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭tuisginideach


    I love Wales. I love the Welsh language(I can speak it). I love the scenery of North Wales including Snowdonia. Despite what a previous poster said, Plaid Cymru has not just got traction in recent years - its support has been very strong at various times over the past 40 years. Welsh, like Irish, has regional accents too - South Wales Welsh is quite different to North Wales Welsh. Plenty of 'chapel'- goers in Wales - my friends were 'Calvinistic Methodists ' which amazed me as I, as a young person, thought Calvin was only in a school history book!


    Haven't been back to Wales in c12 years but the standard of hotel at that stage was incredibly poor in Comparison to Irish hotels. Despite that, I love it.



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