DART+ (DART Expansion)

buffalo · 11-08-2021 11:40am

Interesting that it looks like Pointy are primarily in the front of the building (numbers 102-103) as opposed to the back (104). That's not to say they haven't merged the two sections internally.

yascaoimhin · 11-08-2021 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734017#Comment_117734017

I thought I'd see what's proposed for this street and the section of Amiens Street is opens on to in the Clontarf to City Centre Cycle Scheme, due to begin construction this year.

Currently across the road from Preston Street there are 4 packing spaces and a loading bay.

The C2CC Scheme proposes the installed of 16 parking spaces across the road from Preston Street. in which case theres no need to keep parking on Preston itself and they can easily be removed without little need to listen to objections.

gjim · 11-08-2021 12:15pm

I'm being lazy here - asking instead of googling - but thinking of the Connolly quarter development - will the Preston St. entrance work continue right under the tracks/platforms to accommodate an entrance on the other/eastern side?

There's going to be huge amount of residential in the Connolly quarter and presumably even more in future as the North docks fills out. I'd have thought having a convenient eastern entrance would be even more pressing need than having another one on Amiens st - albeit closer to the DART platforms?

LXFlyer · 11-08-2021 12:21pm

Just to point out that there are a small number of private residences on Preston Street, and the residents of those houses may not want to park their cars further away on Amiens Street, given the significant amount of anti-social behaviour in the area.

I certainly wouldn’t blame them for that and I think that a comment such as “they can easily be removed without little need to listen to objections” in relation to those parking spaces is frankly crass and shows a complete ignorance of the area.

To clarify re the other buildings:

The building at 102-103 Amiens Street is now purely offices. In over four years of working in the area I’ve never seen trucks using Preston Street.

The adjacent petrol station was closed and was to be replaced with a hotel, but has since reopened as a petrol station.

yascaoimhin · 11-08-2021 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737251#Comment_117737251

Sorry, I'm no longer willing to bend over backwards to accommodate the storage of private property on public land.

Those residents are in the center of the city immediately next to an intercity and commuter train station, multiple bus routes, a tram line an intercity coach station, several bike hire stations and soon one of the most high-quality cycle routes in the country.

I'm not going to listen to complaints about cars having to be parked across the road. Those vehicles are at much more risk of vandalism on a side road with less passive surveillance t hen next to a main thoroughfare.

So yes, I will not be listening to complaints about "What will happen to my car". It is not my nor the cities responsibility to accommodate the storage of private vehicles in probably the most well connected location in the country.

bk · 11-08-2021 12:32pm

I'd be surprised if those houses on Preston St don't also eventually get redeveloped into offices. Probably that petrol station too. With a DART entrance literally on their door, it will become prime development property.

LXFlyer · 11-08-2021 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737300#Comment_117737300

Well I still happen to think that, living in a democracy, people are entitled to put their views forward and for them to be heard as part of the planning decision.

FYI I am not talking about anyone holding the process to ransom, but their views are as entitled to be heard as yours and mine are.

Throwaway comments such as your initial one really don’t help.

yascaoimhin · 11-08-2021 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737345#Comment_117737345

Yeah, heard and then dismissed as overzealous, selfish and unhelpful.

And to clarify, my comment is not a throwaway. I'm deadly serious. Every has the right to submit to these consultations. But under no circumstances does that automatically grant the right to your opinion to be taken seriously.

LXFlyer · 11-08-2021 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737366#Comment_117737366

I've no time for time wasting NIMBYs than anyone else, but I also have no time for some of the zealots out there who feel that the planning laws and processes of the country should not be followed, because that's what you seem to be suggesting here.

For the record I'm 100% behind DART+, but I do think that the planning laws need to be followed.

yascaoimhin · 11-08-2021 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737396#Comment_117737396

No. It isn't. You're exaggerating.

Read what I wrote again and stop jumping to conclusions.

LXFlyer · 11-08-2021 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737307#Comment_117737307

Difficult to know, that might take quite a while. It is fair to say that the area is currently dead when compared to normal.

It has been like a morgue in my experience, with the social issues that it suffers from becoming far more obvious to the eye due to the lack of people working in the area.

Hopefully things will pick up with people returning to offices, but talking to local shopkeepers, they've still not noticed much of an uptick.

Pete_Cavan · 12-08-2021 2:44pm

Tender for Topographical and Utility Surveys for DART+ Coastal from Drogheda to Greystones. Presumably this needs to be completed to prepare the initial designs so seems like it will be a while before we see the first public consultation.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/195221/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

dublinman1990 · 14-09-2021 6:18pm

Just to remind everyone in this tweet that there is a Dart+ West webinar being held for Croke Park to Ashtown residents online at 7pm tonight.

https://twitter.com/RCPCA1/status/1437777172844974089?s=20

Peregrine · 18-09-2021 8:01pm

The alignment study for the new DART Underground/DART+ Tunnel will be published in a few weeks along with the Draft Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area.

CatInABox · 19-09-2021 8:45am

https://twitter.com/GraemeMcQ/status/1439492904645533697?s=19

Well....

Zebra3 · 19-09-2021 9:17am

I for one am shocked. 🙄

Pete_Cavan · 19-09-2021 9:18am

If true (and I'd want to see a better source before I'd believe it), it would be a damning indictment of our Green Minister for Transport.

CatInABox · 19-09-2021 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910199#Comment_117910199

Yes, it's prudent to wait for a better source, but there's no smoke without fire. I knew that there was going to be a delay, but this is way more significant than I'd expect. It's possible that they've got the dates mixed up, but that's me hoping for the best, not actually expecting the best.

With the various pressures on the finances, I'd been wondering what part of our plans would be put on the long finger, and these projects were always going to be some of the easiest ones to do it.

Peregrine · 19-09-2021 4:02pm

DART Fleet Strategy Paper

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XzNxzc2qV5jsUVLyUl39EFJw12doW6TB/view?usp=drivesdk

spacetweek · 19-09-2021 5:49pm

There will have to be huge pushback against delays like that. What, have everyone drive everywhere until 2034? How are we supposed to meet our climate commitments?

cgcsb · 19-09-2021 11:31pm

Leo put DART+ back to the drawing board yesterday. We can't build it because of the horse stables in the way at Ashtown. I've personally given up. I can't grasp how they can literally move mountains for motorways but not even a shed for animals can be relocated for public transport. Probably best to go live in a less corrupt/backwards country.

MyLove4Satan · 20-09-2021 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912065#Comment_117912065

There will be no push back. None.

Murph85 · 20-09-2021 2:42pm

Ryan should be prepared to pull the plug on the coalition over this, save the pittance from somewhere else...

DoctorPan · 20-09-2021 3:16pm

This is news to me and I'm working on it!

Effects · 20-09-2021 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117912065#Comment_117912065

Who cares about climate commitments? Very few of the general population give a toss. Most people in government seem to feel the same way, just keeping their eyes on the next election, and no further than that.

Peregrine · 20-09-2021 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915746#Comment_117915746

It's news to people in the Department of Transport too. Ryan would know about it but this isn't coming from the Department of Transport. Any funding delays in the National Development Plan is coming from the Department of Public Expenditure through cabinet.

People are lining up to talk to Ryan while FF and Michael McGrath face no questions. Darragh O'Brien in Dublin Fingal and James Lawless in Kildare North have been very quiet.

Especially Darragh O'Brien. If his party ministerial colleague withdrew funding for both rail projects in his constituency, he should have to answer for it. But nothing.

GM228 · 20-09-2021 5:20pm

Perhaps Darren will get some answers:-

https://twitter.com/orourke_darren/status/1439638145247715334?s=19

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1439941103864713220?s=19

Zebra3 · 20-09-2021 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117915534#Comment_117915534

And how would the GP do in any GE that would follow?

Would Ryan feel confident about even retaining his seat?

Would he take a risk going from minister to nobody?

Not a chance he’d do that.

Pete_Cavan · 21-09-2021 6:40am

What Ryan himself wants or his chances of reelection are irrelevant. This is not the GP of 10 years ago which was essentially him, his position as leader has been precarious for years. Much of the party's growth in the last 5 or 6 years has been from the social justice warriors, who want C.Martin as leader, or Extinction Rebellion types for whom Ryan isn't extreme enough.

Martin would love an opportunity like delaying major PT projects to bury Ryan. She'd have the support of practically all existing GP voters, plus the party would probably gain support from disappointed young FF/FG voters in suburban Dublin. I'd say she'd love to pull the plug on this government and this would be the ideal platform for her to lead the party into a new election. Martin is also at the cabinet table so knows exactly what is happening. Her keeping quiet on this suggests there's not as much to it as is made out.

lawred2 · 21-09-2021 7:23am

I'll no doubt be retired before these projects reach completion. Pathetic.

Cookiemunster · 21-09-2021 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918015#Comment_117918015

The GP is currently polling at around 5%. If they take down the government tomorrow they'll be wiped out again. At the moment all the votes are in housing and they're part of the government not delivering on that. Young suburban FF/FG voters are also going to be more interested in their immediate housing needs rather than the metro or DART+ that are still 6-7 years away even without the delays.

L1011 · 21-09-2021 12:16pm

The Greens are going to be lucky to recover their 2016 performance (Ryan and Martin) whether they collapse the Government or not.

cgcsb · 21-09-2021 3:28pm

GP isn't going to survive an election in a few years any better than in a months time. At least if they collapsed govt over public transport they'd be sticking to their supposed principles and might retain some core vote.

The housing issue isn't going to be solved with the same money either. As we've seen a shed for animals can defeat DART+ if there's votes in it. So what chance does housing stand? If a housing development casts a shadow on a nimby's rose Bush it'll also be blocked by politicians so its fairly pointless saying the money will divert to housing.

LXFlyer · 21-09-2021 4:14pm

Sadly public transport investment, or more importantly the lack of it, is not, and never has been, an issue that fundamentally people will decide how to vote upon.

Housing, schools, health and social welfare are.

As for the stables, that was just Leo being a constituency TD. Remember, that during the first consultation he was reported to say that the level crossing should stay in place, and that's not the case in the current plan. It was a photo op.

I wouldn't be adding two and two together and making five in terms of it "defeating DART+".

It hasn't got to Railway Order stage yet - so there can still be a solution - probably through providing a suitable alternative location nearby.

brownbinman · 22-09-2021 9:20am

I live beside the new pelletstown train station and have noticed all major parties having webinars in the Dart+ this week

If it is delayed, I'll be livid as it would be a massive improvement for the whole area. If politicians think saving a horse shed for a few votes, surely they'd lose more by commuters jam packed on early morning trains

GM228 · 22-09-2021 11:03am

Surprisingly I have not seen much on the issue reported here, but, the UK Times has picked up on the story:-

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tds-anxious-over-report-of-seven-year-hitch-with-metrolink-and-dart-plus-sk6tpl0r5

The opening paragraph says it all:-

The transport minister has refused to address a report of a seven-year delay in the construction of Dublin’s long-awaited metro and the extension to the Dart line.

And then there's this:-

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/michael-mcdowell-a-rail-feasibility-study-is-always-good-for-a-positive-headline-1.4680042?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

We really do need a truthful feasibility study on the many planned, shelved, semi-shelved and promised rail projects

Also, rather interesting to note I checked over today's (and yesterday's) scheduled Topical Issues and Leader's Questions for the respective sittings and the issue does not seem to have been raised by anybody in the Dáil, I would have thought the issue would be on the agenda, but no.

LXFlyer · 22-09-2021 11:19am

It was addressed in the topical issues.

https://twitter.com/paulmcauliffe/status/1440411247250337793?s=21

GM228 · 22-09-2021 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117923027#Comment_117923027

Thanks, I missed that and didn't see it on the topical issues paper.

"They will take time, they require Railway Orders", the big question however is when will they be made?

Peregrine · 04-10-2021 11:57am

DART Underground/DART+ Tunnel funded for "commencement of design and planning" up to 2030 subject to the GDA Transport Strategy's recommendations. The current NDP only funded route selection but this should bring us to railway order stage.

The previous GDATS envisaged DART Underground completed by 2035 so there's no reason why the new one wouldn't recommend something similar.

spacetweek · 04-10-2021 9:24pm

When is the DART+ West RO supposed to be submitted?

cgcsb · 04-10-2021 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976924#Comment_117976924

May 2022

spacetweek · 08-10-2021 2:59pm

I emailed Eamon Ryan to complain about recent delays to large public transport investment projects. I got a long detailed email in reply. Here was the part relating to DART+.

"DART+ is a programme which actually comprises five different projects, each of which is moving at different speeds and is at different stages of development, while MetroLink is likely the largest ever public investment project in the history of the State. The BusConnects programme, like DART+, is made up of a number of different projects including the Core Bus Corridors, Next Generation Ticketing and Network Redesign.

All three [BusConnects/Metrolink/DART] face imminent and important milestones in the coming months and these milestones will determine the progress of each in the coming years.

Firstly, there is Government’s approval of the Preliminary Business Case and secondly there is the submission of Railway Order and planning applications to An Bord Pleanála.

On that first milestone, the Department of Transport has received Preliminary Business Cases for all three projects. This represents Decision Gate 1 under the Public Spending Code and those Preliminary Business Cases are currently under review. For major projects, like DART+, BusConnects and MetroLink, the Public Spending Code requires a Government decision and Minister Ryan expects to seek such a Government decision in the near future.

If approved by Government, that will allow the contracts to be signed in relation to DART+ Fleet and will also allow MetroLink, DART+ West and the Core Bus Corridors element of BusConnects move into the statutory planning system, subject to the completion of the necessary planning and environmental documentation.

The second impending milestone is the submission of Railway Order applications for DART+ West and MetroLink, and planning applications for the Core Bus Corridors. Those applications require the finalisation of an extensive set of documentation, including environmental impact assessment reports, and that work is ongoing in relation to all three projects.

On DART+, the most advanced of the proposed infrastructure projects is DART+ West. The second round of public consultation on DART+ West has recently been extended until early October. Issues raised during this consultation process, including those raised by public representatives, will need to be fully considered by the company and appropriately addressed before they’re ready to enter the planning system. Once that has been completed, and similar to MetroLink, DART+ West can then move into the planning system subject to the aforementioned Government approval and finalisation of planning documentation."

Peregrine · 04-11-2021 2:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117489617#Comment_117489617

This order will be placed early next year.

patrickbrophy18 · 05-11-2021 12:29am

Are there any documents which show what the rolling stock will look like with schematic drawings of interiors and layouts?

yascaoimhin · 05-11-2021 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121059#Comment_118121059

No Because there will be a public consultation on the layouts and interiors of the new carriages

Sam Russell · 05-11-2021 10:55am

Have they actually placed the order for new Dart carriages yet? On Morning Ireland, I thought I heard Leo V say that they were on order.

Peregrine · 06-11-2021 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121909#Comment_118121909

No, the preliminary business case still hasn't been approved by government. The winning bidder was chosen in May.

Sam Russell · 06-11-2021 10:26pm

The Gov appear to be dragging their feet on all matters. Disgraceful.

Peregrine · 07-11-2021 2:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129430#Comment_118129430

It hasn't been brought to government yet. It's more a case of slow progress by DPER and DoT in reviewing it and bringing it to government.

The NTA submitted the preliminary business cases for BusConnects, MetroLink and DART+ to DoT within weeks of each other in March and April. This was to be expected.

Sam Russell · 07-11-2021 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130116#Comment_118130116

I thought that the DoT was part of the Gov. I am not familiar with the DPER.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

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