DART+ (DART Expansion)

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285015#Comment_118285015

You'd have to expect that they will build the station box as part of DART+W.

marno21

Application to ABP in Q2 2022.

Cost of DART+ West is €969-1100m. Does this include any fleet?

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e9619-government-approves-dart-programme/

LXFlyer

The fleet is all under DART+ Fleet.

Remember that DART+ West includes the depot which would be a substantial part of the costs.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285125#Comment_118285125

Or just delay the Glasnevin station until Metrolink is being built.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118285319#Comment_118285319

Glasnevin station is very complex and involves adjusting existing track layouts, I can't see that being done post electrification. Glasnevin would probably be better done as a standalone enabling project, build the Metrolink station box, DART+ platforms and track adjustments in one go in advance and then let the Metrolink and DART+ contracts do their thing without the complications.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153526#Comment_118153526

DENCHA Dual Energy Charge Train has been in use for 5 years now with a wire-free range of 90Km.

The 18 two-car, 39m-long, 120km/h BEC819 series trains began operating on the 11km Wakamatsu – Orio line in October 2016 for Kyushu Railway Company (JR Kyushu) and have since completed 5 million kilometres in passenger service in the northern Kyushu region. Nearly 80% of the distance covered is on non-electrified sections of the route.

The big question is how much of a charge a DART could pick up a the stops if you electrified the stations or waiting places as well as the terminus. The bridge in Drogheda and it's approaches could be an section to electrify to get to stations further north.

Peregrine

It's the Phoenix Park Tunnel line that has to be excavated for MetroLink. The Maynooth line only needs a pedestrian underpass built underneath it. Well, that and the tunnel boring itself.

Glasnevin station is being designed and built entirely by the MetroLink team. It won't be in the railway order for DART+ West. TII will include it in theirs. Both projects will start construction around 2024. DART+ West is a minor enough project and will likely be finished in 2027-2028. MetroLink will only be operational in 2034 but MetroLink doesn't have to be operational for the Glasnevin station to be finished. It just needs the MetroLink station excavation works under the PPT line to be finished and the DART station to be built on top. All of the civil works on the southern stations are due to be complete by 2030. Glasnevin Station could be finished before that. I don't think it'll be finished by 2027 though. It's DART+ South West that will be more constrained by this. Not sure when the completion date for DART+ South West is now. It's dependent on DART+ West so definitely after that.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286514#Comment_118286514

I'm pretty sure that the Metrolink station works requires the closing of both heavy rail lines separately, temporarily, and that track reconfiguration is needed for this.

I'll accept the superior knowledge of others but I don't think the DART+ works could be done ahead of MetroLink without introducing more complications for MetroLink (not least having to deal with the electrical cabling). In any case, but particularly in the previously outlined case, having DART+ dependent on MetroLink is risky imo. At the very least, the contract for DART+ won't be entered into until MetroLink is already underway, so any planning/procurement issues with MetroLink stalls the entire DART+ project.

That's why I said I think the basic Glasnevin station should be prepared in advance as a separate enabling project. It removes the interdependence between MetroLink and DART+. The smart contract management strategy is to eliminate these kind of risks if possible, a bit like the diaphragm wall which was built at the Mater ahead of Metro North.

cgcsb

Both the rail lines will have to be closed at some stage, MGWR for months and the GSWR for weeks. There is no way to build directly under live railways.

DART+ W will probably be shovel ready in 2023. Meteolink will be later, much more complex contracts and detailed design.

Zebra3

Totally illogical to electrify the Maynooth line and then close it at some stage later for an extended period.

Peregrine

Interesting

CatInABox

If I remember correctly, both tracks there have to be taken up to change the gradient. Work also has to be done on approach, to allow the trains to change track in both directions at Glasnevin junction. Going to be fascinating to see how they do it all, it's surprising complex there.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288278#Comment_118288278

I just checked the larger version you posted in the MetroLink thread. It shows Advanced Works for Glasnevin from Sept 23 to May 25. Only it, Tara and SSG have advanced works going into 25 (or beyond in the case of Tara).The "traverse through" Glasnevin is only scheduled for a few weeks, shorter than "drive to" for the other stations. I'd assume from that, that they will do a large amount of the works at Glasnevin as advanced works. Hopefully this means DART+W can start in 24 with electrification of Glasnevin happening mid 25 or later.

AngryLips

Is the train line under Croke Park also being electrified under Dart+ West?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288876#Comment_118288876

Is that not Dart+ South-West?

Sam Russell

Are there not lines on both sides of Croke Park - Canal End (Davin Stand) and Railway End (Hill 16)?

LXFlyer

Both lines between Glasnevin Junction and Connolly/Docklands are being electrified as part of DART+ West.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288989#Comment_118288989

In fairness, only one goes under it.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289153#Comment_118289153

Well, yes. Ironically, it is the canal end. I would assume enough headroom was left for O/H wires.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288876#Comment_118288876

Yes

crushproof

A bit a naive question but can they apply for the electrification part now and start cracking on that ASAP? Surely starting to piecemeal install the pylons along the lines is the most straightforward part of the project. And then wait until Q2 2022 to apply for the rest the project?

Or is this speedy thought process too advanced for Irish infrastructure projects?

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288542#Comment_118288542

Yes, aside from MetroLink works, both lines will need to have their gradients adjusted to built the DART station itself. Both bridges will have to be raised for overhead lines too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291134#Comment_118291134

That could be seen as project splitting which is a no-no for environmental impact assessments.

Electrification is most of the project anyway. Even if it were allowed, it would also likely take longer to do up a separate railway order and make last minute changes now. And there's no point having the electrification done without the new depot.

The quickest way to get this built is to get both DART+ West and MetroLink into the planning system as soon as possible without any changes.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291134#Comment_118291134

You'd quickly find yourself taking out poles again for track lowering and realignment. But you do have a point, some level crossings could be closed now and fenced off. I'm not sure I there's a requirement to actually get planning for this.

If we were on Mainland Europe it would work like this: in 1975 a vision is set out for the DART system. Then you accept you can't pay for it off the bat, so then you do certain things to enable the project out of your yearly budget for improvements, close the crossings between 1975 and 1980, perhaps building a road bridge in the process. Raise one bridge or lower the tracks at a rate of one every year or 2 from 1980. Then by 1986 you have a line with space for overhead wires and no level crossings and you apply again for funding with some of the expensive elements removed because you did them already. Then you get half the funding to electrify connolly to ashtown. Then a TD in blanch will demand the service extended to his area so you'll get more funding to do so in 1990, then the maynooth TDs will be having town hall meetings, then by 2010 you'll have electrified to Longford and By 2021 we'd be working on finishing to sligo.

In Ireland the approach is 0 annual investment, and bare minimum maintenance then when the country is flush with cash or there's some political crisis, get a consultant to print a glossy brochure about some mega spend that should have been started 50 years ago and continue annually.

We are changing though and you'll see after the 3 big projects are done there'll be more incremental investment on extensions and improvements here and there and the system will grow more organically like it does elsewhere.

dublinman1990

That's great news. It's one big part of the process for Dart+ West officially done & dusted. When Metrolink goes through the planning system next. It will be two big achievements done in terms of getting the railway orders finalized once they are drawn up & submitted from next year.

spacetweek

The last I heard Dart West was going to take 1-2 years to build as it's a small project. What's this craic about 3.5 - 4 years?!

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292743#Comment_118292743

Lifting Sherriff st bridge alone takes a year and involves replacing/relocating a serious amount of utilities including about 1km of one of the country's biggest fibre optic cables: They're funny things in that they are cables that don't bend and can only be cut at junction points. The tunnel At Cross Guns has to come out, tracks lowered and bridge lifted. Removal and replacement of retaining walls. Track lowering at serval other locations. Painstaking dismantling and brick-by-brick rebuilding of several heritage bridges. A new underground station at Spencer dock including tanks and pumps to compensate for it being basically below water in a saturated location. A massive depot in Maynooth, double tracking between Maynooth and the depot, a painstaking remodelling of Connolly Station, capacity upgrades at all other stations. And all this happens when the railway remains fully operational most of the time. It's not that simple a project. When you say railway electrification, sure it roles off the tongue real simple but there are many other factors to consider when you're talking about a railway built 150 years ago.

And make no mistake, when it is complete it will be a BEAST of a rail service. You will be able to stand in Glasnevin Station and see a DART going past in some direction every minute or less on one of the 4 tracks. Years afterwards you'll also have a train every 2 minutes going under your feet in the metrolink tunnel. The investment is huge and it'll be impressive, on an international scale, when complete. Getting the government to commit to metrolink now is the hard battle.

Peregrine

I asked someone at Irish Rail about this a couple of months ago because I couldn't believe that the project completion date went from 2024 to 2027. 3.5–4 years is right. They said they completely underestimated the time required to build it (that's a common theme now).

They should have started the design sooner. The GDA Transport Strategy was finalised in 2016. Options assessment in 2018. Work on DART+ West only started in 2019. 2020 for DART+ South West and 2021 for DART+ Coastal.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293146#Comment_118293146

This doesn't really answer the question though, all you're doing is describing what's involved. It's true the project was envisioned to be two years and now there's a stretched timeline put in. Also, those service frequencies you mention, they're max potential frequencies ...I highly doubt we'd get that in reality.

Sam Russell

Doing projects ahead of the time through annual budgets is a good idea.

IR tried it at Pearse where they built the escalators to connect with Metro North - only it did not happen.

They also built the four platform station at Clongriffin in anticipation of the Dart line - Clongriffin to Airport, just 7 km across largely green fields. It never happened, and the southbound passing platform never got the rails.

Of course, if you do this, you need to guess right or be in control of the plans and the purse. IR are not in control of the plans or the purse, and the best guess is that the politicians will bottle it.

L1011

There are no escalators at Pearse for Metro North (the Trinity biomed entrance was happening anyway), nor is the quad platform at Clongriffin preparation for a DART to the Airport - its for passing capacity on that line which is required regardless.