No, the preliminary business case still hasn't been approved by government. The winning bidder was chosen in May.
Have they actually placed the order for new Dart carriages yet? On Morning Ireland, I thought I heard Leo V say that they were on order.
No Because there will be a public consultation on the layouts and interiors of the new carriages
Are there any documents which show what the rolling stock will look like with schematic drawings of interiors and layouts?
This order will be placed early next year.
I emailed Eamon Ryan to complain about recent delays to large public transport investment projects. I got a long detailed email in reply. Here was the part relating to DART+.
"DART+ is a programme which actually comprises five different projects, each of which is moving at different speeds and is at different stages of development, while MetroLink is likely the largest ever public investment project in the history of the State. The BusConnects programme, like DART+, is made up of a number of different projects including the Core Bus Corridors, Next Generation Ticketing and Network Redesign.
All three [BusConnects/Metrolink/DART] face imminent and important milestones in the coming months and these milestones will determine the progress of each in the coming years.
Firstly, there is Government’s approval of the Preliminary Business Case and secondly there is the submission of Railway Order and planning applications to An Bord Pleanála.
On that first milestone, the Department of Transport has received Preliminary Business Cases for all three projects. This represents Decision Gate 1 under the Public Spending Code and those Preliminary Business Cases are currently under review. For major projects, like DART+, BusConnects and MetroLink, the Public Spending Code requires a Government decision and Minister Ryan expects to seek such a Government decision in the near future.
If approved by Government, that will allow the contracts to be signed in relation to DART+ Fleet and will also allow MetroLink, DART+ West and the Core Bus Corridors element of BusConnects move into the statutory planning system, subject to the completion of the necessary planning and environmental documentation.
The second impending milestone is the submission of Railway Order applications for DART+ West and MetroLink, and planning applications for the Core Bus Corridors. Those applications require the finalisation of an extensive set of documentation, including environmental impact assessment reports, and that work is ongoing in relation to all three projects.
On DART+, the most advanced of the proposed infrastructure projects is DART+ West. The second round of public consultation on DART+ West has recently been extended until early October. Issues raised during this consultation process, including those raised by public representatives, will need to be fully considered by the company and appropriately addressed before they’re ready to enter the planning system. Once that has been completed, and similar to MetroLink, DART+ West can then move into the planning system subject to the aforementioned Government approval and finalisation of planning documentation."
May 2022
When is the DART+ West RO supposed to be submitted?
DART Underground/DART+ Tunnel funded for "commencement of design and planning" up to 2030 subject to the GDA Transport Strategy's recommendations. The current NDP only funded route selection but this should bring us to railway order stage.
The previous GDATS envisaged DART Underground completed by 2035 so there's no reason why the new one wouldn't recommend something similar.
Thanks, I missed that and didn't see it on the topical issues paper.
"They will take time, they require Railway Orders", the big question however is when will they be made?
It was addressed in the topical issues.
https://twitter.com/paulmcauliffe/status/1440411247250337793?s=21
Surprisingly I have not seen much on the issue reported here, but, the UK Times has picked up on the story:-
The opening paragraph says it all:-
The transport minister has refused to address a report of a seven-year delay in the construction of Dublin’s long-awaited metro and the extension to the Dart line.
And then there's this:-
We really do need a truthful feasibility study on the many planned, shelved, semi-shelved and promised rail projects
Also, rather interesting to note I checked over today's (and yesterday's) scheduled Topical Issues and Leader's Questions for the respective sittings and the issue does not seem to have been raised by anybody in the Dáil, I would have thought the issue would be on the agenda, but no.
I live beside the new pelletstown train station and have noticed all major parties having webinars in the Dart+ this week
If it is delayed, I'll be livid as it would be a massive improvement for the whole area. If politicians think saving a horse shed for a few votes, surely they'd lose more by commuters jam packed on early morning trains
Sadly public transport investment, or more importantly the lack of it, is not, and never has been, an issue that fundamentally people will decide how to vote upon.
Housing, schools, health and social welfare are.
As for the stables, that was just Leo being a constituency TD. Remember, that during the first consultation he was reported to say that the level crossing should stay in place, and that's not the case in the current plan. It was a photo op.
I wouldn't be adding two and two together and making five in terms of it "defeating DART+".
It hasn't got to Railway Order stage yet - so there can still be a solution - probably through providing a suitable alternative location nearby.
GP isn't going to survive an election in a few years any better than in a months time. At least if they collapsed govt over public transport they'd be sticking to their supposed principles and might retain some core vote.
The housing issue isn't going to be solved with the same money either. As we've seen a shed for animals can defeat DART+ if there's votes in it. So what chance does housing stand? If a housing development casts a shadow on a nimby's rose Bush it'll also be blocked by politicians so its fairly pointless saying the money will divert to housing.
The Greens are going to be lucky to recover their 2016 performance (Ryan and Martin) whether they collapse the Government or not.
The GP is currently polling at around 5%. If they take down the government tomorrow they'll be wiped out again. At the moment all the votes are in housing and they're part of the government not delivering on that. Young suburban FF/FG voters are also going to be more interested in their immediate housing needs rather than the metro or DART+ that are still 6-7 years away even without the delays.
I'll no doubt be retired before these projects reach completion. Pathetic.
What Ryan himself wants or his chances of reelection are irrelevant. This is not the GP of 10 years ago which was essentially him, his position as leader has been precarious for years. Much of the party's growth in the last 5 or 6 years has been from the social justice warriors, who want C.Martin as leader, or Extinction Rebellion types for whom Ryan isn't extreme enough.
Martin would love an opportunity like delaying major PT projects to bury Ryan. She'd have the support of practically all existing GP voters, plus the party would probably gain support from disappointed young FF/FG voters in suburban Dublin. I'd say she'd love to pull the plug on this government and this would be the ideal platform for her to lead the party into a new election. Martin is also at the cabinet table so knows exactly what is happening. Her keeping quiet on this suggests there's not as much to it as is made out.
And how would the GP do in any GE that would follow?
Would Ryan feel confident about even retaining his seat?
Would he take a risk going from minister to nobody?
Not a chance he’d do that.
Perhaps Darren will get some answers:-
It's news to people in the Department of Transport too. Ryan would know about it but this isn't coming from the Department of Transport. Any funding delays in the National Development Plan is coming from the Department of Public Expenditure through cabinet.
People are lining up to talk to Ryan while FF and Michael McGrath face no questions. Darragh O'Brien in Dublin Fingal and James Lawless in Kildare North have been very quiet.
Especially Darragh O'Brien. If his party ministerial colleague withdrew funding for both rail projects in his constituency, he should have to answer for it. But nothing.
Who cares about climate commitments? Very few of the general population give a toss. Most people in government seem to feel the same way, just keeping their eyes on the next election, and no further than that.
This is news to me and I'm working on it!
Ryan should be prepared to pull the plug on the coalition over this, save the pittance from somewhere else...
There will be no push back. None.
Leo put DART+ back to the drawing board yesterday. We can't build it because of the horse stables in the way at Ashtown. I've personally given up. I can't grasp how they can literally move mountains for motorways but not even a shed for animals can be relocated for public transport. Probably best to go live in a less corrupt/backwards country.
There will have to be huge pushback against delays like that. What, have everyone drive everywhere until 2034? How are we supposed to meet our climate commitments?
DART Fleet Strategy Paper
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XzNxzc2qV5jsUVLyUl39EFJw12doW6TB/view?usp=drivesdk
Yes, it's prudent to wait for a better source, but there's no smoke without fire. I knew that there was going to be a delay, but this is way more significant than I'd expect. It's possible that they've got the dates mixed up, but that's me hoping for the best, not actually expecting the best.
With the various pressures on the finances, I'd been wondering what part of our plans would be put on the long finger, and these projects were always going to be some of the easiest ones to do it.
