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Revoking of SACF rifles & New Legislation (thread banned users in first post)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Well I will bow to your superior actions as you seem to have the solution in regards to solving the wrongs of the last 50 years of oppressions of lawful ownership of firearms, I don't have any master plan or solutions, if there were acceptable solutions greater minds than mine would have come up with them over the last 30 years. Unfortunately, we are in a society where our worst enemies are ourselves, the infighting, the backbiting the bitching, the aggression, (OMG and in the main all the people involved in the infighting are legally entitled to hold firearms!) there is no hope for unity among the shooting community in Ireland and without it there is little possibility of defeating the constant chipping away at legitimate firearms ownership.

    Well that's a bit rich too "Victor" 50 years of woe but when anyone tries to improve the situation.its all wrong and how dare they go outside approved channels,blah,blah." It seems that everyone must sit in the same sht pool,but woe betides anyone who tries to better the communal lot by dragging themselves and anyone else out if they want to come are upsetting the order of the sht pool.Very "Irish " if you ask me.

    I don't have all the answers either,but I do think we need to be hyper-vigilant to any moves or attacks and actively engage with the Govt on any such proposals on legislation. Hiding the head in the sand or closing the eyes and holding the hands over the ears going "Llalalala! Everything fine, nothing to worry about and you are a poopy head for suggesting otherwise "is naive and obviously has not worked.Same as throwing some unliked or minority section to the wolves in hoping they will be left alone with their particular discipline hasn't worked out too well for the UK either did it?


    In fairness we do not have it so bad since 2004 when we got back our pistols and larger caliber rifles, we have three year licenses, we have regulated rifle and pistol ranges to shoot in and with the regulation of ranges we can say we are no danger to the public as DOJ certify the ranges and AGS certify them, look to places like UK, Australia, New Zealand where sporting use of firearms have been destroyed in the interest of public safety............yea for course that works doesn't it.

    No argument there. But remember it took two individuals to break away and say I've had enough,I want my pistol and rifle back in respective cases. Believe you me, they didn't have an easy time of it either back then from fellow shooters [of mouths] and the PTB Same accusations and muck was thrown at them as well, and nowadays its a given that we license .22 pistols and CF rifles... Someone has to stick the head above the parapet too.

    No, I am sorry I do not believe we have a Hells chance of stopping future restrictions for all of the above reasons, even in the threads that I have been posting in there is such venom and realistically we are really all on the same page. So there you have it

    Funny we did this very successfully. The great gun grab of 2015 by the AGS, fell apart because it united, more or less everyone under the Sports Colation. Which fell apart because the usual prima donnas and fiefdom builders got in the way of a greater goal.SC would be a force to be reckoned with today if the vested interests hadn't got in the way as usual.

    As for the venom in the threads ...Maybe try not to come across so condescending or critiquing your replies? Just a thought?

    Rich for you of course asking about mandate and qualifications, where did you get your mandate to go into the DOJ what is the membership of FUNI, I can ask and you can answer if you wish or can, I do not purport to represent anyone only my own views.

    We really seem to be getting your goat by our mere existence do we?🤣 I got "my mandate " from being a SACF owner who was [1] getting zero information from the main bodies supposedly looking out for my sport on this topic, and couldn't add anything even when it was all over in Sept 2019 [2] Decided to share it with the same affected shooters in this country from the horse's mouth. Happy? How many in FUNI? Contact the president in Poland, Tomaz Stepzepin[sic] as he handles membership admissions. Please see www.firearmsunited.com for further info and FAQ.🙂


    Maybe I am a grumpy old man (my wife calls me Victor) but then I have been involved in shooting sports since I was 17 and I am now 64, maybe that gives me some creditability and of course as in all walks of life freedom of speech and the right to express ones opinion is a right I value.

    Well, "Victor" I'm not too far behind you, albeit started when I was 10. So I'm sure you'll forgive a cheeky young whippersnapper of 55 for being a bit more militant in outlook?😜 Thats the most scary thing I think facing Irish shooting ,that its a bunch of old guys arguing about "their sport" and there is little done to get fresh blood into it.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    The amount of cognitive dissonance on display when you mention the "infighting, the backbiting the bitching, the aggression", while ignoring that you are one of the primary contributors to it all.

    "Rich" indeed.


    This new onslaught is just the latest attack on shooting sports as a whole.

    Look at the playbook set by other countries:

    First it is "scary" rifles and pistols,

    Then all semiautos,

    Then all "rapid firing" firearms,

    Then "high powered sniper rifles",

    And by the end you are left with what?

    .22 rifles(semi if you are lucky) and shotguns(no pump or semi obviously, because who needs a shotgun that can shoot that quickly?!


    The UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, Ireland, some US states(Cali with their AWB style rubbish, CF pistol microstamping requirement, etc), all are excellent examples of it starts off small, and ends up with a massive amount of asinine firearm restrictions which do exactly diddly to reduce crime.

    Look at the UK's crime stats since banning CFSA rifles, or pistols?

    Our own stats since grandfathering CF pistols?

    Canada's since the firearms registry and mag cap restrictions?

    Literally any EU country with the mag cap restrictions?

    Australia, literally just any Aus gun laws.


    The playbook is as few firearms as possible, nothing scary, benchrest 22s and clay pigeons as far as target sports goes, and little else, so shooters need to contact their TDs, get their orgs involved, and push back when any new firearms legislation comes down the line, because at one point it will be whatever is in your safe, and by that point you will likely have no-one to help you since they will have all been pushed out of the game by legislation, age, grandfathering(CF pistols, what's the average age there now? Because with zero new blood it's only going to go up until there are none left), etc.

    Post edited by Cass on

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭ jb88


    @Grizzly 45 How dare you, I was so p&ssed off by your attempt to recruit me to help you, when you caused this issue by asking for a review of all of this to begin with via Willie O Dea.

    Post edited by Cass on


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭ smmember20


    @jb88 here here!!! I said that earlier in a post and got a roasting!! In my view the specific questions shoved a big stick up the bears **se and started a big ball rolling down the hill, dealer audit of CF SA rifles initiated to answer the questions, audit of licensed CF SA, lovely well we all know how few CF SAs were licensed since 2015 not many folks to piss off if we invoke the prohibition now.

    Post edited by Cass on


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    And here I was under the impression that the specific questions were asked AFTER the dealers were contacted, so the ball was already rolling...


    Also, again you think one person has the power to sway the dept to something they weren't planning on doing? Come on.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



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  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    "Also, again you think one person has the power to sway the dept to something they weren't planning on doing?"


    Why not? Almost everything that politicians do in this banana Republic is the result of lobbying whether by connected and/or rich individuals or groups.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Yeah,I must discuss this next time I'm up in the K club swilling champagne and hobnobbing with Leo and Mehole... Are YOU for real man??? If you think I or FUNI has that sort of influence...🤣🤣

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    But what motive would someone, a shooter in particular with investment in the hobby and this aspect in particular, have to get CFSA banned?

    Or for that matter what proof of any motive has been in evidence here?


    As far as I am concerned I heard from my local RFD about the crap first, then from FUNI who had sent the query via TD to the respective minister, with the reply, hence the plans were already in motion?

    Then once it is posted on boards as information on what was coming and then gets disparaged by JB88 and smmember20, but ends up being true and in progress, as was stated when it was posted here initially.


    In my view asking such questions after the plan is already in motion are sensible, no?

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    MODERATOR NOTE


    I've split off the posts from the semi auto thread into this thread so as to centralise all discussion about the revocation/banning of these firearms as we have moved from discussing the hypothetical to discussing the actual.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭ clivej


    Friend of mine only got a new license for his 223 semi auto centre fire rifle this week.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    "But what motive would someone, a shooter in particular with investment in the hobby and this aspect in particular, have to get CFSA banned?"


    In this case naivety, stupidity and a realisation they thought they could/had beaten the "system", but hadn't, and then opened a can of worms?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,976 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    I don't have a semi auto however I'm extremely annoyed at lads rifles being seized and also concerned with the erosion of our sport. I'm happy to help as best I can. Cass had a thread going here a while back about how to advance our sport. I was getting all misty eyed at the thoughts of reloading at home, 50 meter ranges in every county etc. Well this is the front line, this needs to be stopped and win or lose we need to buck up and nip the likes of this in the bud.

    Now it's a bit rich of me saying "buck up" I slide along under the radar with a leave no trace policy to my shooting but it's time to change. Do I start writing to TDs/write to those that came out with ridiculous stats recently/write to the papers/radio stations that allowed this waffle?

    In my very humble opinion the SACF lads need to get together, circle the wagons and the rest of us need to contribute to the war chest.

    P.S. - the pissy **** way they avoid paying compensation, one can still own the gun but not possess annoys the hell out of me.

    The day will come that they will be coming after our .22LR bolt actions.


    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭ GooseB


    "The day will come that they will be coming after our .22LR bolt actions."

    If they ban the ammunition they won't have to ☹️



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    There seems to be a need to apportion blame here, understandable but fruitless, but lets settle this once and for all.

    • One of our own groups/associations tried to have pistols limited to such an extent as to ban them for everyone else 10 years ago, and failed
    • Another of "our own", a coalition of groups, tried to have night shooting banned, and failed. 
    • The same coalition tried to have semi autos banned back in 2015 I believe, and failed.

    If these established groups with seats on the FCP as well as whatever moniker you want to attach to the umbrella groups of shooting bodies they were members off could not make headway on matters with a direct line to the Minister then, what makes people believe one person with a lot to lose could have more sway? Seriously! Grizzly 45 is big and ugly enough to defend himself so that is not what this is. I am trying to get people to stop looking for a scapegoat for something that was started 6 years ago almost to the day (tomorrow, as I write this).


    However if anyone is still out for blood, and keeping in mind the couple (out of many) horrendous f**k ups "our own" have done lets ask ourselves, which do you think precipitated the events we are witnessing now? 

    1. A "randomn guy" that took a personal meeting with a TD (or representatives of his office) about a separate matter (mag ban)?
    2. A recognised coalition of shooting bodies, with a seat in the FCP, that has twice called for the banning of semi auto rifles, night shooting, 22 pistols, the privatisation of Deer hunting, etc. mere months before the Minister's statement? (February - April of 2015)

    In case anyone thinks I'm deflecting lets take a direct quote from their own blog:

    4. The Committee recommends that the licencing of .22 calibre short firearms and centre fire semi-automatic rifles be temporarily restricted;

    The intent to ban all future SSACF rifles was announced in September 2015, a minimum of 5 months from the proposals submitted by "our own" because the seemingly eager acceptance of such a ban was taken by the Minister as grounds there would be no push back from the shooting community. I mean why would there be, "we" suggested the ban in the first place.

    Post edited by Cass on

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    In case anyone needs reminding or a refresher course.


    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    MODERATOR WARNING.


    I have had to delete, edit and clean up some posts that were out of order. User(s) have been infracted and anymore insults, person jibes, back seat moderation or ANY forum rule violations and its instant ban.


    There is an important topic at hand and while I appreciate tempers will be frayed the posts should be on topic.


    Lastly, the new system is different for all of you, but its very different for Moderators. Reported posts are being greceived, but not instantly so its important that if you report something and it has not been acted upon or replied to within say 12 hours (not set in stone) or so drop me a PM as a reminder. However DO NOT substitute reporting posts with PMs directly to me, there is still a record needed of the problem post so couple the reported post with a PM to myself or one of the other Moderators.

    Post edited by Cass on

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Yeahhhh, and I just set out with that attitude and plan to sabotage my own newly issued license for a semi-auto .223 that I got granted in May of this year?? Do you really think I'm that stupid or naive on how things work here?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    How long did it take Clive from application to grant?PM if you want.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭ BSA International


    I don't know ya apart from what you posted on this forum. You wouldn't be the 1st person to shoot themselves in the foot, if you did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭ clivej


    About 5 weeks, the FO "lost" application. But it was found again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Same timeframe as mine...5 weeks... Coincidence???🤔🤔

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭ jb88


    well its all pie in the sky lads nothing to worry about here, move along please



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,976 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    Am I right in saying a .17 Remington or .20 Practical would still be classed as legal?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    Yep, shame they're not giving us 3 thousandths of an inch more. Still doesn't make any f*cking sense, but that's the legislature for you, making baseless assumptions about law abiding gun owners yet they don't bat an eye when AGS lose an MP7 or when they literally shoot themselves in the foot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Terrible definitions,as usual. So I guess Garands,SKS, and the like are fine as they don't reload from a "magazine" [no definition therof] but from "clips". Anyway, there it is in black and white. So now what? Blame gaming or move forward on a unified frontto try and fight this? There is still time,but time is awastin to change this or get it modified as this is still a schedule,not a final bill.We snooze now we lose forever.


    Makes me puke too how craven our lot are to kowtow and grovel at the UN's whims. There is no requirement for the Govt to transcribe anything from the UN into national law.It states this quite clearly in the preamble of this diktat. Nor will it do diddly squat to stop international arms trafficking, just make it harder for you and me to acquire spare parts, accessories or legally move firearms around the EU.😡

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,062 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭ jb88


    From 2020 some of which was implemented in an SI



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    I wouldn't get too excited yet lads. They done the same thing in 2008 with pistols, and amended it by the time the legislation was signed into law to exclude anything bar 22lr. As this is the "rough draft" it wouldn't surprise me if later drafts become much more specific and eliminate anything that is not a 22lr SA.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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