Dun Laoghaire Thread. No traffic, commuting, transport chat.

14-09-2021 1:27pm

The main way to measure the usefulness of a library is the actual bookstock available.

If one has to join a queue of people and wait months to get new books then building this monumental structure isnt an improvement on the old library, the genuine book lover doest care about magohony winding staircases or cafes etc, they want timely access to good books and this library in my opinion has too few books.

ted1 · 14-09-2021 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889519#Comment_117889519

That type of library is gone the way of they dodo, far more activities take place there than just borrowing books.

Alias G · 14-09-2021 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889519#Comment_117889519

I'm sure you are completely correct taxiperson, and the half a million visitors to DLR library every year are just plain wrong. What use is the place at all?

Tabnabs · 14-09-2021 3:31pm

The statue to Roger Casement has gone up, let the complaining begin...

https://twitter.com/DunLaoghaireTn/status/1437745449612582916?s=20

Larbre34 · 14-09-2021 3:33pm

FB_IMG_1631629828424.jpg

The new statue of Roger Casement, being installed on the plinth of the new breakwater by the Baths redevelopment today.

14-09-2021 4:42pm

It's a good statue and in about ten years time people might actually get a chance to look at it.

josip · 14-09-2021 5:18pm

^^^ Hung for the 2nd time.

JayRoc · 14-09-2021 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890397#Comment_117890397

I'm not being funny but what in the name of god could people find to complain about re Casement? Even republican-haters can't deny he was a good man, brave and a great humanitarian.

Do you mean the rumours about his sexuality and the Black Diaries? I would have thought that would almost work in his favour nowadays!

odyssey06 · 14-09-2021 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889568#Comment_117889568

Visitors having a gawk, using the loos ... or actual users of library / facility services?

Alias G · 14-09-2021 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891782#Comment_117891782

You are absolutely correct. Anytime I'm down there, the vast majority of people are actually just queuing for the toilets.

markpb · 15-09-2021 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892311#Comment_117892311

They are amazing toilets to be fair. The reviews on TripAdvisor and AirBnB are right!

Mav11 · 15-09-2021 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893662#Comment_117893662

For €40m its the least you'd expect! That's a lot of pennies!!!

bodgerfederer · 16-09-2021 12:10pm

Does anyone know what is going on with the small bmx style bike track by Meadowvale? Fences have appeared around it. Kids are still getting in but maybe they're not meant to.

Would be a terrible shame if this new facility is to be removed.

16-09-2021 12:21pm

Its a terrible shame too that we have so few public tennis courts that children and teens can use without paying out membership to private clubs.

I was in Germany recently and there were tennis courts every few miles with people playing on them.

Is there any public tennis courts in Dunlaoghaire that people can just turn up too and play on. I know there are courts in Clarinda Park but they are hard surface, I cant think of any other ones.

Also is there anywhere people can play outdoor table tennis.

josip · 16-09-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898973#Comment_117898973

As far as I know the tarmac courts in Cluny Park are publicly accessible.

There are 2 in Kilbogget also, but I don't know if they have nets.

One problem with publicly accessible facilities is that there's a sufficient number of <insert favourite term here> in every area to make tennis courts impractical. All infrastructure has to be vandal and dickhead-proof.

The Res in Ballinclea has an outdoor table tennis table.

https://goo.gl/maps/zc9mKjgKHyHFyJcS6

bodgerfederer · 16-09-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898973#Comment_117898973

i couldn't agree more and have made the point to all local councillors recently.

European parks tend to be full of tennis courts, table tennis, multi sports astro pitches etc. we have so much open green space in parks in locality and we're very lucky for that. but it is just largely open green pitches. during lockdown there were actually queues of people waiting to use the dilapidated handball wall in Rockfield park. Every kid in Dun Laoghaire was crammed into the Honey park concrete sports pitch as it was the only 5 aside and basketball court accessible.

Larbre34 · 16-09-2021 1:51pm

Somebody was definitely trolling in DLRCC when they designed the jetty on which to erect the statue of well known homosexual Roger Casement. Access from um, Queens Road!

Homesick Alien · 16-09-2021 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898973#Comment_117898973

What do you mean "but they are hard surface"? What else could you expect for a public court? Grass?!

While I'd be happy to see more tennis courts I was surprised how little use the clarinda ones were getting. Anytime I went to use them there was always at least one court free. I'd say there just isn't the demand.

16-09-2021 4:13pm

Most tennis courts have a synthetic surface and seeing as the taxpayer funded a library to the tune of 40 million euros then surely DLRCC could provide a few public tennis courts in the various parks.

Clarinda is a tarmacadam court as far as I remember. I play a lot of tennis and havent played on anything like that surface anywhere, think its a cheap low maintenance job.

Many Dunlaoghaire residents would be members of private tennis clubs and used to playing on nice tennis courts. This might explain why there isnt much activity in Clarinda but you shouldnt use this as evidence that tennis courts in other locations wouldnt be used.

JayRoc · 16-09-2021 6:24pm

Tbh I'd rather have seen some of that 40 million go to, say, Monkstown Boxing Club...the conditions those lads have had to put up with over the years is ridiculous.

To be perfectly honest I had no idea there was such a thing as a public tennis court.

josip · 16-09-2021 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900209#Comment_117900209

Can you be more specific about "the few public tennis courts in the various parks".

Which parks and how many tennis courts per park? Would they be supervised or unsupervised?

Assuming they'd be fenced in to protect the surface and nets, what would their opening hours be?

Would council employees or subcontractors look after the locking and unlocking of them?

How would you handle complaints from locals that all the money spent on them was wasted because they're not open in the evening time.

Ow would you have them open in the evening time? Again, supervised/unsupervised?

Do you think the lads who doughnutted the Cabo pitches last year would take an interest in them?

Or the lads who set fire to the surface in Shanganagh MUGA playground?

What would your budget for this be? To the nearest million will be fine.

bodgerfederer · 16-09-2021 6:39pm

I think my point would be that there’s plenty of money to do both.

It would cost approx 150k to screed and resurface clarinda with a synthetic surface.

That’s not too much in the context of 40million.

The Bmx bike track at Meadowvale is another perfect example of an inexpensive improvement to promote sport. I don’t know what it costs to have a man and a jcb for 2 days but it can’t be much.

a concrete table tennis setup? A couple of grand?

handball walls should be everywhere too. (I don’t understand why handball is not more popular, but anyway a wall works for whatever ball sport you’re into).

imo every open park in dublin should have all or at least some of these things.

josip · 16-09-2021 9:38pm

Concrete Table Tennis Table - A couple of grand?

First one I found was 4 and half grand

Ex VAT and delivery

https://www.completeleisure.ie/jpl/butterfly-b2000-standard-concrete-table-tennis-table.html

I assume there are cheaper ones out there.

But on top of that you've got site preparation and installation

Do councils need planning permission to install structures in parks?

16-09-2021 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900838#Comment_117900838

Could we maybe send some Parks people to Germany and Spain to ask how they manage to provide free/ low cost sports facilities to the public.

I dont run the Parks Department so pointless putting your questions to me.

I spent summer holidays playing tennis in St Annes Park in Raheny, we put a few coins in a box and accessed the courts, this was thirty years ago, imagine the local authority could organise this then but cant now.

josip · 16-09-2021 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901524#Comment_117901524

St Annes Park is on a different scale to anything in Dun Laoghaire.

16-09-2021 10:54pm

The courts were in a corner of St Annes,five or six tennis courts doesnt take up a huge amount of space.

There is plenty of room in Marlay Park or Cabinteely Park for tennis courts and the playgrounds seem to survive the marauding gangs you talk about.

We hand over millions of Euros to the GAA every year and spend so little on other sports, its so inequitable.

Larbre34 · 16-09-2021 11:06pm

There ARE six public tennis courts in Marlay Park and six more in Meadowvale, five minutes from Cabinteely Park. What do you want, one rolled out on the street outside your gaff?

Homesick Alien · 16-09-2021 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901841#Comment_117901841

You really are relentless. Wonder what you'll move on to next.

Yes those expensive private clubs have expensive synthetic surfaces which are expensive to maintain. I'm sorry that the available free public courts are not to your standard. But it seems nothing is.

jackal · 16-09-2021 11:30pm

Most clubs are cheaper than you might expect, and that money goes towards floodlights, as it’s dark after 5 for half the year, a clubhouse, maintaining and renewing the things that wear out, and playing in competitions, social events etc. My club nearby to Dun Laoghaire costs €140 a year and is an absolute bargain for that. A public tennis court is a great idea but they are a maintenance headache. I agree there is a need for both though, and if it’s hard courts so be it, great for a knockabout and kids learning etc.

Seaswimmer · 17-09-2021 7:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901891#Comment_117901891

I am not sure the ones in Meadowvale are public but I could be wrong.

Seaswimmer · 17-09-2021 7:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117900861#Comment_117900861

The bike track in Meadowevale isn't technically a bike track. It was petitioned for by locals as a "natural structure and imaginative play area" and not exclusively for bikes. There have been I believe incidences of people being told to "get off the bike track". Maybe a few well positioned signs advertising the fact that it is not exclusively a bike track would help..

Alias G · 17-09-2021 8:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902297#Comment_117902297

Regardless of what was petutioned for, its is irrrefutably a pump track for bicycles that has been installed at meadowvale. Unless further development is to commence a pump track is all it will ever be.

bodgerfederer · 17-09-2021 9:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901891#Comment_117901891

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901905#Comment_117901905

the tennis courts at meadowvale are a strange one - the ground is owned by the council and leased to the club. in theory you can pay to play on an ad hoc basis between 9-5 but as the council do not provide staff to let people in and out and take their money this does not happen (as @josip points out above).

i think your previous run ins with taximan are blinding you from seeing that he makes a fair point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902297#Comment_117902297

if it looks like a bike track, rides like a bike track....it's a bike track. i'll have to admit i'm biased - my boy races bmx and having this little track so nearby has been fantastic. you should come down and explain to him that it's not a bike track...😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901493#Comment_117901493

Apologies, i was being a bit throwaway when i said a couple of grand. still not huge money though.

https://www.oksports.ie/products-page/table-tennis-tables/butterfly-city-concrete-table/

https://www.wesco-eshop.ie/of50242-outside-pro-510-table-tennis-table-cornilleau.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw-ZCKBhBkEiwAM4qfF2p7d-vrLkSCuNY8guc5d6hBu2b_tVOgg5UK4_RBHEgPQ7gXg1QCEhoCw4UQAvD_BwE

Sorry to say but i'm with taximan here. We give a disproportionate amount of money to the GAA at the expense of making sports freely available to all. Even the GAA clubs that use public parks for matches all weekend charge membership. We have a huge amount of green space and it wouldn't take a lot to change the landscape and make sport prevalent for all.

Finally, I appreciate the point about anti social behaviour but is it really a reason not to do anything? If this stuff can't happen in South Dublin then you'd think that it can't happen anywhere in Ireland and the country is doomed.

17-09-2021 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902296#Comment_117902296

There are a few tennis clubs that are run on a public private basis with DLRCC, in one I live near the public element is a few hours a week on a Saturday afternoon, ie one gate is left open for a few hours.

There are long waiting lists for most tennis clubs now.

The issue is spending forty million plus on a library and we dont have enough tennis, basketball, skateboard parks, table tennis, badminton etc public facilities.

We have really high levels if obesity among young people particularly young people from the more disadvantaged areas, these young peoples parents wont join tennis clubs no matter how reasonable it is so we need public facilities that are easy to access.

I wouldnt have played tennis as a child if we hadnt had access to the St Annes tennis courts and I never got a coaching lesson so never had the confidence to join a club, its shocking that forty years later nothing has changed.

bodgerfederer · 17-09-2021 9:23am

100% this taxiperson.

sport is increasingly becoming the preserve of the middle classes who drive their kids around to local clubs 4-5 days a week. My son's football club is 300quid, then there's swimming, biking, trampoline, tennis etc etc. its a not small amount of money per child.

free play, unstructured sports have a huge role in promoting health and (if you're into it) sporting success. we have the space and the money required isn't massive. i feel that the only thing lacking is a bit of imagination.

josip · 17-09-2021 10:20am

13.7 million spent on outdoor leisure last year vs 10 million on library and archival

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/adopted_budget_2021.pdf

Obviously with headline budget figures like these, it would be important to know what's actually included.

It does seem like a disproportionate amount spent on libraries, a sedentary activity, versus outdoor activities.

But when you consider the climate we live in and that for a good few months of the year, daylight hours are restrictive, it may not be.

I agree that just because something might get vandalised isn't a reason for not doing it. But just because the outdoor infrastructure is provided, doesn't mean it will be used by the people who need to use it either. I'm very happy that my job isn't to tackle childhood obesity, I've no idea where to begin.

Although the outdoor table tennis sounds like fun, especially for those who have enjoyed it on holidays in European campsites, has anyone ever tried it here in Ireland? I have, at least 5 times, and every single time it was just frustrating. Wind.

Finally back to the tennis topic. Tennis in Ireland, whether people will admit it or not, is a middle class sport, especially at club level. Many people would be reluctant to join clubs, not because of their ability or perceived lack thereof, but because they just don't fit in. My kids are members of a club in the area, and are perfectly comfortable there with schoolfriends. I played enough tennis growing up as a kid to be confident in my ability. But I'd always feel out of place if I play a match with them as a visitor or if I oversee their club match. Its nothing to do with cost; tennis club annual membership is less than their soccer club membership. So even though I could play on nice private courts for free, I prefer to play with them on tarmac in Clarinda or Marley Park amongst normal people. But most of all I prefer playing with them on clay :)

ted1 · 17-09-2021 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901493#Comment_117901493

the council could make their own for cheaper

ted1 · 17-09-2021 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902480#Comment_117902480

clubs do pay rent to the council for use of pitches..

ted1 · 17-09-2021 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901841#Comment_117901841

There are Tennis courts in Marley Park, they've been there over 30 years!!!!

17-09-2021 11:08am

I didnt realise that, havent been to Marlay Parks in decades to be honest dont go to Parks at all since my children outgrew playgrounds.

How do the public tennis courts work and how come they arent vandalised,are they open every day and is it easy to get a court.

If the courts are operating very well then why cant we have tennis courts in other parks and table tennis facilities too.

It isnt just Dunlaoghaire Rathdown that is lacking these facilities,they are badly lacking in rural ares too,its as if everyone is a GAA fan and if you arent into that in some rural areas then there isnt a whole lot to do.

Supercell · 17-09-2021 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902412#Comment_117902412

I run through this area at least four times a week, where is the bike/pump track? The only one I've ever seen like that is the mud piles the kids are using to go round BMX style beside the tennis club during the last month or two (fenced off this week but i saw kids have opened up the fence already). Talk about litigation waiting to happen, amazed they haven't leveled the mud yet.

bodgerfederer · 17-09-2021 11:20am

yep, tennis is an interesting one - like you say club membership can be inexpensive, my family membership is the same price as one son's membership at st joseph's football. probably the culture varies with each tennis club - there's no snobbery at all at my place, which is not the same as saying people wouldn't be put off in the first place. maybe a step to breaking those barriers would be to have half decent public courts?

i take your point about table tennis in ireland! but still, my point is that lots could be done at not a whole lot of cost in the grand scheme of things.

17-09-2021 11:28am

There is no snobbery in my tennis club either but then again we are all middleclass and we could afford tennis lessons for our children.

If you are a child who isnt invited on playdates and your classmates run off together to tennis lessons after school to their private tennis club then you are going to think tennis is not for you.

These children wont be on bikes in the new cycle lanes either, they will be the children brought to McDonalds for Sunday lunch and fed unhealthy cheap food everyday which leads to weight gain, on and on it goes.And they definitely wont be brought to exhibitions in the Lexicon or sadly to choose books to borrow there,its such a middleclass facility and off putting to unconfident readers.

qb123 · 17-09-2021 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902490#Comment_117902490

You know what would really be great for helping prevent obesity in children? Being able to use safe, protected, cycling facilities in their neighbourhood, be it Dun Laoghaire, Deansgrange or wherever. And in particular to go to school - an activity that they could do every day. No class discrimination and the vast majority of children have bikes.

ted1 · 17-09-2021 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903043#Comment_117903043

They are at the back by the old playground, down from the new one. Free to play just turn up.

bodgerfederer · 17-09-2021 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903122#Comment_117903122

obviously we're not going to get back onto cycle lanes in this thread but i don't think that you can just claim that they won't be used by a certain demographic.

similarly with the library; i appreciate what you mean about it being a middle class facility but the librarians do do outreach work, they make kids books available and they're as helpful as they can be in my experience. i'm not sure how one would make it a more working class friendly experience?

...actually i do, i turned up one time and there was a yoga and baby books thing on. i guess you could argue that yoga and baby books is an experience for all social groups but i'd laugh at you if you did.

josip · 17-09-2021 1:40pm

The libraries are a great facility, but unless you live close to one or your parents frequent libraries, it's unlikely you will spend much time in them as a kid.

Not surprisingly, they're all in the centres of affluent towns/villages in the borough. And it's more expensive housing that's within easy reach of them.

That's just the way it is unfortunately, life is harder if you got unlucky in the postcode lottery at birth.

Alias G · 17-09-2021 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903082#Comment_117903082

Its still a pump track if it has been made using the left over topsoil? It had a series of rollers and two berms either end.

Tabnabs · 17-09-2021 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903788#Comment_117903788

Their flagship library/cultural centre is within sight of their significant Council headquarters. Just like other affluent towns, like Tallaght.

Larbre34 · 17-09-2021 2:45pm

I think you've just described yourself to a tee taxiperson, you haven't been anywhere, haven't done anything that really tells you anything about the actual World the rest of us are living in.

I've news for you, this isn't 1983, you're the outlier.

Dun Laoghaire Thread. No traffic, commuting, transport chat.

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