Will racism ever end?

RobbieTheRobber · 13-09-2021 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117885995#Comment_117885995

I asked are you annoyed. You twice used a pejorative after the work black so I feel it was a fair question.

sekiro · 13-09-2021 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058208248/will-racism-ever-end

I don't really think it can ever end. Who really knows the mental state of the person who did this? Not to defend them but the actions you've described are not something I could ever see myself engaging in and I think 99% of people would feel the same way and yet, it happens.

I would say I have the same problem with murder and other serious crimes. I have a hard time comprehending exactly why anyone would do these things and lack the desire or resources to educate myself about the reasons.

Prejudice will probably always be a thing. On social media you can see people who will even engage in bullying and abuse but will defend it as being done in service of a good cause. The difference there is it's a bit more sophisticated than some knuckle dragger just going all in on someone's race or sexuality or disability or whatever.

Unfortunately I think what I am really saying is that you could probably educate people out of being openly racist but would not be able to remove the impulse to bully or victimize. So you might be able to stop people from being so blatant and obvious about it through education but they will probably find a more subtle way to do the same kind of thing. Like the skin-head football fan will just stand there and roar racial slurs at someone because they are thick and without any sense of nuance, maybe even suffering mental-illness. On the other hand the university educated graduate might have a more complex system of setting up traps before sparking off an outrage mob to cost someone their job or whatever, they are probably also suffering from mental-illness.

It think it is a lot more complicated that we will probably ever know but the most simple explanation is that some people are really, really, terrible and that's never going to go away. A lot of angry and irrational people in the world and they are looking to hurt others.

13-09-2021 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886094#Comment_117886094

Thank you for your answers. It seems that we are not as far apart in our beliefs as I thought we were.

ELM327 · 13-09-2021 5:58pm

If you want to experience real racism travel to the middle east as a white person, with your unmarried homosexual partner, and have an atheist public gathering.

sekiro · 13-09-2021 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117885160#Comment_117885160

Hm.

So maybe you have accidentally exposed something that is a relevant point. Maybe not.

You have, dishonestly and maliciously, in my opinion, tried to imply that @[Deleted User] is angry because they can't use racist words in public.

As an observer this automatically creates an issue. The accusation of racism is quite serious. Therefore I kind of have two choices here. I jump in with both feet and join in some kind of disingenuous witch hunt, whereby we all imply that @[Deleted User] is actually racist for our own gratification. For our own gratification since I think we all know that you have made quite some leap in logic here. The second choice is that I calm myself down and proceed with caution. After all, shouldn't I be wary of just accusing people of racism when realistically they have done nothing so far?

So as an observer I see that you are clearly in the wrong here so I'm not likely to ever side with you and am in fact more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to people you attempt to treat this way.

If this happens often enough then it becomes clear that something approaching an "everything is considered racist these days" attitude starts to form.

If someone is using racial slurs? Yes, blatant racism. Call it out. If someone boos taking the knee? I'm going to hold fire until I hear their side, sorry.

This is Point A:

@[Deleted User] "Joking aside, cultural appropriation is often used as examples of racism (wearing traditional asian clothes, dreadlocks etc) so I am not sure if some people would class this as overt racism that should be called out. Also the use of the N word. If, as some say, we should call out people using that word as an example of overt racism, would they equally call out a black person using that word?"

This is Point B:

@RobbieTheRobber What do you think is acceptable usage of racist terms. Are you angry that you feel you are not allowed use racist words in public?

How on Earth have you managed to get from A to B there?

Billy Mays · 13-09-2021 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886143#Comment_117886143

There you go OP

Tell your missus to suck it up. She has no idea what real racism is according to this chump 👍🏻

Wibbs · 13-09-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886114#Comment_117886114

IMHO Sekiro ascribing mental illness to such things, while currently fashionable is both lazy, and most of all comforting for some. Person A does very negative thing X, normal people would never do that. Person A must be mentally ill, or stupid, or otherwise abnormal in some way.

They said that about the nazis in the aftermath of the war too, but those who actually had dealings with some of the biggest monsters in European history were struck by the fact that with very few exceptions these were very ordinary men and women. Men and women who in another time and place could well have made great neighbours, friends and members of society. Many were extremely bright and well educated and good company. The uncomfortable reality is if this country went bad in the morning and some terror took over you can be pretty sure that it wouldn't be long before one third of people would be happy to subjugate and even kill those that were painted as the enemy while the other two thirds would quietly cheer them on, or look on and mostly down at their feet. In times of tyranny, your neighbour, your friends and even your family can be the greatest danger to resistance and you.

No? Consider the Catholic Church and many of her small and big horrors that we suffered as a nation and how so many look back and curse them and think of them as an outside force. Well the foot soldiers who locked away our daughters and abused kids were among us. They were our grandparents and great grandparents. We abused those kids, or stood back and didn't dare to look or speak of it out loud and often berated those who did. That's one reason we laud and pin medals on the chests of those that resist tyranny. They're bloody rare.

We may take comfort in the fact that personally we may be considerate and non prejudiced and altogether nice but that's because we grew up in a society that was and is most of the time. If we didn't we almost certainly wouldn't be, or those parameters would shift.

RobbieTheRobber · 13-09-2021 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886212#Comment_117886212

Because your point A is not the starting point. Back back you go. Twice before that post that poster used unnecessarily the word black followed by a pejorative. For no real purpose other than to post those word together to this thread. Then despite later using the context defence, they question why the n word is not acceptable.

And finally I never implied I asked a question.

Can you explain how my words were dishonest and malicious?

Tell me how · 13-09-2021 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886212#Comment_117886212

You have literally documented the creation of a strawman argument at the perceived outrage that someone was said to be upset because they couldn't use a racist term.

How on earth have you managed to quote someone and get it so wrong?

One eyed Jack · 13-09-2021 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886445#Comment_117886445

The poster was making a hopeless attempt to appear objective, and like the guy in the car in the opening post - they hoped nobody would notice their obvious bias 😂

To the question itself as to whether or not racism will ever end? The answer is clearly no, because it would require that people pretend they don’t have the capacity to observe differences and similarities between themselves and other people, and make decisions based upon that knowledge. Essentially, it requires people to behave as though they have the cognitive capacity of a grapefruit.

Some people through no fault of their own, do have the cognitive capacity of a grapefruit. They’re the type of person who uses terms like “people of colour” or “person of colour” to refer to a group of anyone who isn’t white.

13-09-2021 8:53pm

Well.. I doubt racism will end because the further social theory continues, the more emphasis is placed on the differences between people. There's little genuine interest in equality between the various groups.. everyone is dedicated to "their" group receiving attention and benefits, and while they might claim they want the same for other groups (in an ideal world), in a world with limited resources, their group will have priority to get those resources.

And then, there are a host of individual experiences and subconscious biases that everyone has, where they might place a particular racial group as a greater threat than others. For example, I wouldn't be bothered meeting a group of Asian guys on the street late at night, but I'd definitely be cautious/wary on encountering a group of white or black guys. That's racist, because I'm judging a group based on their skin color, and the factors (knowledge, personal experience, etc) are irrelevant. It's still racist.

TBH I think racism is simply part of the human consciousness. It can be reined in by laws, and social conditioning, but it's not going to disappear entirely.. and there will always be some people who will act out their biases. The majority will keep their biases to themselves, and honestly, that's should be the goal here.

Oh.. positive discrimination and reverse racism is still racist. I'd say that one of the reasons that racism is becoming more obvious in society, is that "some" people are bending over backwards to make racism acceptable for the special people. The same way it's fine for Black people to use the phrase N***** but it's awful for anyone else to do the same, regardless of the intent behind the usage. That just screams double standards.. hard to push for equality when you're reinforcing the image that people are not equal.

Galwayguy35 · 13-09-2021 9:00pm

There is racism in every country in the world, its always been there and always will be.

Africans are quick to shout about us Irish being racist but try being an Indian for exampe in some of their countries and you would know what racism really is.

13-09-2021 9:02pm

Equality does not mean treating everyone the same.

Equality is about giving people equal opportunities. Some people are so far behind others, that they need extra help to put them on an equal opportunity level.

People with disabilities need extra help to put them on a level with fully able-bodied people. That's equality.

13-09-2021 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886867#Comment_117886867

You are confusing equity and equality

13-09-2021 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886895#Comment_117886895

No. I am not.

13-09-2021 9:13pm

Fair enough. You are just wrong then

Strumms · 13-09-2021 9:22pm

Will racism ever end ? No. Discrimination exists, it always has, always will.

murderers will always exist, assaults, dangerous driving, theft, bullying.... always been a facet of life... every robber knows to steal is wrong, every murderer the same...every racist ... know they are wrong... we will never be without all those types of people or racists.

13-09-2021 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117886867#Comment_117886867

Ahh Bubblypop, you crack me up. 😀

13-09-2021 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887418#Comment_117887418

It's a beauty alright.

Tell me how · 14-09-2021 3:36am

I must say it's quite bizarre to see people who were arguing a few weeks ago that footballers shouldn't be taking a knee to call attention to racism are now arguing that racism will always exist.

If you think racism will always exist, and have a problem with people calling attention to this and asking for action to be taken to hold people responsible, you should have a good think about where that puts you.

At the very least its probably an example of that white privilege which you are also adamant doesn't exist.

14-09-2021 7:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887945#Comment_117887945

Its only bizarre if you ignore the abundance of times it was clearly explained how the opposition to the knee was nothing to do with race and all against BLM.

Throwing in non existent "white privilege" as a bait was a nice touch though.

Those kind of terms definitely don't create more division between races. No siree.

There will always be racism because people are idiots. Some people are just racist, and some people will redefine racism so they can see it everywhere.

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 8:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888007#Comment_117888007

Some of the opposition to the taking of the knee was racism. Plain and simple.

14-09-2021 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888094#Comment_117888094

On here? I didn't see it. I may have missed a poster or two who cited racism as their opposition but the overwhelming majority explicitly said that their issue was with the implied and unavoidable association of the gesture being linked to BLM

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888098#Comment_117888098

Oh right you think people who hold racist views are going to come on boards and go hey my opposition to this gesture against racism is because I hate black people.

How quaint.

Those damn millionaire footballers and their BLM Marxist conspiracy they just want us all living in communist Russia.

Am I doing this right now?

14-09-2021 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888120#Comment_117888120

Oh right, so because you personally believe certain people to be racist, you are using the non racist words that they use as proof of their racism?

I, along with a lot of others, oppose BLM and would not support any initiative which uses a gesture so inextricably linked to them. We even listed other anti-racism campaigns which we did/do support.

But of course, that's just us being covert racists. You see right through us.

Am I doing this right now?

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 8:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888146#Comment_117888146

Taking the knee is inextricably linked to BLM in what way?

Trademarked copyrighted. Or just in your head?

You might want to edit the wiki page so dunne. Because they see it as an anti racist gesture that has been adopted by movements including BLM.

But no you think the reason the premier league players do this is because of BLM and not an anti racism gesture?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_knee

Pussyhands · 14-09-2021 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874947#Comment_117874947

I don't understand what you mean?

Who is dismissing the OPs experience? I didn't see anyone say "ah just get on with it!" or "that never happened"?

The question in the thread title is "will racism ever end?"

14-09-2021 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888181#Comment_117888181

In much the same way that goose stepping and one armed salutes are inextricably linked to Nazis.

In much the same way that sticking a middle finger up to someone is telling them essentially to F-off

In much the same way that making a wanky hand gesture is linked to telling someone they are a wanker

In much the same way that anti-far right campaigners demanded people be fired for using the ok gesture because of it's link with far right groups.

I said previously that I don't have any idea, nor do I care, if the players are taking the knee for BLM, the fact remains that it remains a divisive gesture due to it being a very prominent part of the "summer of (mostly peaceful) protests/riots" and to use it to combat racism, in what we are told is a separate campaign, is exceptionally short sighted when the goal should be to unite against racism and not divide.

So please don't put words in my mouth. I don't think the players are doing it for BLM, I just know that the gesture is a racially divisive one and they shouldn't be using it.

Fandymo · 14-09-2021 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887945#Comment_117887945

Footballers could easily force social media to change their terms and conditions by closig their accounts for a short time. Social media is the current medium for overt racism. Now rather than do this, the clowns kneel before their games in a move that changes absolutely nothing, but they can pat themselves on the back for doing 'something'. That is the issue i'd have with footballers and other athletes kneeling. It changes nothing, while they have the power to actually change something. It's lip service.

Fandymo · 14-09-2021 9:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888181#Comment_117888181

Harry Kane has literally said that they should be doing more for BLM than taking the knee. Thats probably not a link to BLM though?

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888243#Comment_117888243

Godwined. Bravo. So taking the knee is similar to the nazi slaute and goosestep. Can you expand on what you mean by this?

14-09-2021 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888323#Comment_117888323

You want me to expand on a very clear point?

Ok.

A salute consisting of raising an outstretched right arm with the palm down is linked to the Nazi party in the same way that "taking the knee" is linked to BLM

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888308#Comment_117888308

Premier League players said in a statement: "We feel now, more than ever, it is important for us to continue to take the knee as a symbol of our unity against all forms of racism."

PL players released an actual statement and never mention BLM but yeah harry kane says something. 🤣🤣

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/premier-league-players-will-continue-to-take-the-knee-this-season-1.4638212

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12371928/premier-league-players-to-continue-taking-a-knee-in-2021-22-season

Fandymo · 14-09-2021 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888398#Comment_117888398

Yup, nothing to do with BLM. Lets twist again. 💃

"England captain Harry Kane has explained why Premier League footballers feel the need to continue to take a knee in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, with the striker responding to those who believe it is an empty gesture."

And a link from Sky Sports, who had Black Lives Matter plastered all over their graphics?

This Sky?

"Sky, the Comcast-owned pay-TV operator in the United Kingdom, has come out in support of the Black Lives Matter movement after it emerged that U.K. public service broadcaster the BBC had ruled that presenters and guests would not be allowed to wear Black Lives Matter badges on air."

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888476#Comment_117888476

Sky is not the representative body of the premier league players they are a broadcasting company. What did the PL players statement say?

14-09-2021 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888398#Comment_117888398

It's the gesture that is divisive not their message. I wouldn't support any initiative that uses that gesture.

Fandymo · 14-09-2021 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888484#Comment_117888484

They said "We, the Players, stand together with the singular objective of eradicating racial prejudice wherever it exists, to bring about a global society of inclusion, respect, and equal opportunities for All, regardless of their colour or creed. This symbol is a sign of unity from all Players, all Staff, all Clubs, all Match Officials and the Premier League #blacklivesmatter #playerstogether."

The League supports the players’ wish to have their names replaced by "Black Lives Matter" on the back of their shirts for the first 12 matches of the restarted 2019/20 season.

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888499#Comment_117888499

Sorry do black lives not matter what is your issue with that statement?

Again the statement calls out what this is for and at no point do they say they are supporting the BLM movement.

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888494#Comment_117888494

That's really your problem and not the premier league players though isn't it.

14-09-2021 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888720#Comment_117888720

It's not my "problem". It is no problem to be vocally against a divisive gesture. If the players feel that being booed for their divisive gesture, it's their problem

14-09-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888714#Comment_117888714

That's dishonest Robbie.

"Do black lives not matter?"

Who said they didn't? Opposing the BLM organisation or movement does not equate to saying that black lives do not matter.

There is a separate blm/players taking the knee thread for this btw.

We can go back on topic.

Racism in my opinion will never be eradicated because there will always be idiots who are prejudiced and there will always be idiots who will find racism where there is none, in order to get their fix of faux moral superiority and feel like they are "sticking up" for the downtrodden.

RobbieTheRobber · 14-09-2021 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888752#Comment_117888752

No reference to the movement in your quote from the Pl players statement. That hash tag is not owned by BLM and anything not stated in the link is being inferred by you. Please deal with what was in the quote you quoted.

14-09-2021 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888764#Comment_117888764

I'll deal with any of it over in the Players taking the Knee thread rather than keep dragging this off topic. See you over there.

14-09-2021 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887945#Comment_117887945

How is that bizarre since the logic would be that taking the knee would do nothing to stop racism? So, for those who believe that racism will continue regardless, it becomes an empty gesture, and reminiscent of virtue signalling.

If you think racism will always exist, and have a problem with people calling attention to this and asking for action to be taken to hold people responsible, you should have a good think about where that puts you.

Actually, I'd say that you should consider where your objection puts you, because the people objecting to the attention given to racism, are being true to their belief that racism will continue regardless. IMHO, I'd go further to say that many of these anti-racism initiatives are overly pushy, and will generate more racism rather than diminish it, because of this "holier than thou" attitude that is often displayed by advocates is divisive, and inflammatory. The range of double standards when qualifiers for people to be racist are only extended to one group (white people) and not extended to others (Black people).

At the very least its probably an example of that white privilege which you are also adamant doesn't exist.

The only way for any racial privilege to exist would be to acknowledge that privilege exists for all races under variable circumstances, and since it's based on race, as opposed to individual circumstances, anyone promoting the idea of white privilege would be racist. We rarely, if ever, hear of Black privilege, or Asian privilege, even though there would be times where it is advantageous to be one of those races over another. And so, it's used by activists as a tool to beat on White people, based on their race, which signifies their own racism towards white people.

14-09-2021 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888814#Comment_117888814

Just want to throw in an aul +1 for all of the above.

Fandymo · 14-09-2021 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888714#Comment_117888714

OK Chubby Checker, lets twist again and ignore that BLM stands for the #blacklivesmatter. No point talking to you, you ignore anything that shows up the nonsense you post. G'dluck

Tell me how · 14-09-2021 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888752#Comment_117888752

A choice between 'faux moral superiority' or at the very least being an apologist for racists is no choice at all in my view.

14-09-2021 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889223#Comment_117889223

As much as I can't stand people who invent racism and falsely and dishonestly allude/pathetically attempt to frame people as racists, I agree, actual apologists for actual racists are much worse.

The former are much more prevalent on here thankfully.

Tell me how · 14-09-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888814#Comment_117888814

Except that that wasn't the logic I was referring to. Nice try though.

As with the the dunne, if you are watching people who are being racially targeted do an act specifically to call attention to them bein targeted in that way, and they are the ones you have the issue with, then there isn't much room for interpreting what that means.

Tell me how · 14-09-2021 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889262#Comment_117889262

Funny how all the threads that are started on such topics are started with a view that those calling for action are SJW's or the likes. Time and again here the focus, and probably most of the individual contributors to threads are of a mindset against a cause rather than calling for support for one.

Will racism ever end?

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