Will racism ever end?

Dublinandy3 · 10-09-2021 4:34pm #1

Just got off the phone with my wife, as she was walking a man slowed his car down, shouted racist abuse at her and laughed and drove off.

She was upset, it's not the first time she's been abused and sadly I fear it won't be the last and as I consoled her I just thought, will it ever end?

The man who did it obviously didn't see or care about the impact. I was just thinking, as long as there are humans will there be racism?

As nice as they look I'm not sure media campaigns or people taking the knee etc will stop it, it obviously highlights it but doesn't it just highlight it and make an impact to those that wouldn't do it anyway?

Will it ever stop? I'm not sure it will.

10-09-2021 4:41pm

Nope. People will always be arseholes. Same as people slagging gingers, fat people or bald lads.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-09-2021 4:44pm

Well, complete and utter annihilation of the human race would do it - zombies don't care. We all taste the same to them.

Richard Hillman · 10-09-2021 4:44pm

Tribalism/Racism/Xenophobia has been going on for around 100,000 years.

Hello 2D Person Below · 10-09-2021 4:45pm

Perhaps when our consciousness is uploaded to the cloud and replaced by some sort of software.

EmmetSpiceland · 10-09-2021 8:37pm

A lot of lads on here will tell you there is no racism at all.

archfi · 10-09-2021 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874334#Comment_117874334

Who?

odyssey06 · 10-09-2021 8:46pm

Well, we might meet an alien species and be species-ist to them instead.

Or maybe all races will disappear and merge into one melange...

slipperyox · 10-09-2021 8:51pm

Yes it will eventually end. As more people travel and integrate/ have kids, the human race will all be sallow skinned with black hair and brown eyes.

Probably in the next 300 years or so.

Then they will sigh about the loss of diversity.

BTW op. sorry for your hurt...

SEPT 23 1989 · 10-09-2021 9:02pm

It ends in the spilt second that something alien comes out of space and arrives here

until that happens no

HerrKapitan · 10-09-2021 9:07pm

Politicising it and this taking a knee rubbish destroyed any hope of ever eliminating it.

Annasopra · 10-09-2021 9:22pm

My friend recently described to me how her lockdown experience from March 2020 was hell on earth because of the racist abuse she got.

These are her exact words. I removed some of what she said and replaced it with XXXX as it was potentially identifying.

As a mixed race woman who was born in Ireland, growing up in the 80’s and 90’s and living for most of my life in one community as a child, student and mother, my experience of racism have taught me how to live in this country. I choose my battles, but few who decide to impose their racism on me walk away without understanding how their behaviour has affected me. There is a constant pressure on me to justify for my reason for living here (where are you really from?), racial profiling (airports, shops, check points) suggest that I am a threat and potential thief, social evenings inevitably are an invitation for at least one stranger a night verbally abuse me, I have been physically assaulted a number of times, once when heavily pregnant. I have been refused admission to pubs, hotels and followed around shops. I have been asked to pay at the point of service while others pay their bill at the end of a night. These are only some of my experiences of growing up in Ireland as a mixed race Irish person. These experiences have taught me how to live and navigate my environment and to assess levels of threat posed to me.

XXXXX

Where most found lockdowns a novel and frustrating experience, for me it became a prison. My 5km walk became increasingly dangerous. If there was a day that I escaped being verbally abused or the threat of being physically assaulted, there was always the reminder through xxxxxx and misinformation across social media platforms that people who looked like me were to be taken out of the community. We were being dehumanised through the tactics used on social media, shared by friends, colleagues and people I had grown up in an attempt to rid the community of people who look like me. We were considered rapists, paedophiles, prostitutes and careful consideration should be applied with people of colour on the basis that we were a threat to children, wives, husbands, the elderly and in general to the wider community. Fear was induced and there was an increased level of threat experienced by most who did not look Irish.

XXXXX

Exposing these incidents as they arise can reduce the tolerance that the community I grew up in have towards this behaviour. Without challenging it, it grows and becomes more pronounce, acceptable and normal.

BobHopeless · 10-09-2021 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874483#Comment_117874483

The media threw the whole anti racism movement under the bus when they made a convicted thug like Floyd a saint. 99.99% of Irish people aren't racist but you'll always get a few wanke rs

[Deleted User] · 10-09-2021 9:36pm

The word racist has lost all meaning these days. It used to be a case that if someone was labelled racist they actually were a horrible bastard. Nowadays it's thrown around like it's nothing. Usually by people who are perpetually offended and don't want to hear others opinions. Just call someone racist and boom, conversation over.

Annasopra · 10-09-2021 10:22pm

Mad isnt it how real life experiences get completely dismissed because racism gets "thrown around like its nothing" and "99.99% of Irish people arent racist". Its almost like people dont want to admit the real life experiences of the OPs wife or my friend actually exist. Why is that? Why is there such a culture of dismissal and denialism?

[Deleted User] · 10-09-2021 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874615#Comment_117874615

Absolute scumbags. Poor lady.

[Deleted User] · 10-09-2021 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874947#Comment_117874947

I think it comes from a fairly benign place - they would never be racist, and their family and friends would never be, and they don't know anyone who's a racist, only people who don't care what someone's skin colour is... so they find it hard to believe that their world isn't reflected in the broader sense.

It kind of can be applied to me - I don't know anyone who's racist, so I am genuinely shocked when I read about stories like your friend's and that of the OP's wife, but I don't disbelieve them. And you can't know the full story unless you're actually a minority. Also there are some horribly racist people hiding behind anonymity on social media, so I'm sure many of those would also engage in such behaviour off-line (although some wouldn't dare).

ShatterAlan · 11-09-2021 4:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874483#Comment_117874483

Would you say the same thing to Jesse Owens? What are people supposed to do to bring attention to suffering and injustice?

The black man has been lynched and fcuked up and banged up and stitched up. Are they all supposed to set themselves on fire like the monk in Saigon?

That NFL player Colin Kaperniak [sp] is a paragon of strength and fortitude. The man's integrity is INTACT.

You want to fly bombers over a football match then have the balls to accept those who don't wish to participate.

Otherwise just kick the ball around and enjoy the day.

kowloonkev · 11-09-2021 5:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875369#Comment_117875369

If there is actually physical abuse, the threat of physical abuse or discrimination (in terms of access/service/employment) with evidence then report it to the relevant authorities just like any other crime. A certain amount of publicity is good for the above situations.

But a constant ritual of taking the knee or having media reports every time a black person is racially abused online just gives off the air that these people just love complaining and being a forever victim, and sympathy will definitely wain. People get bored with constant complaining and it turns people who initially have sympathy against you, or at least uncaring to your plight.

Tell me how · 11-09-2021 5:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874483#Comment_117874483

Can you tell me, what do you think politics is about if it isn't about things experienced by significant groups in society.

To suggest that behavior that has its foundation in viewing people in a specific way because of how they look or the wider group of which they are seen to be members of and treating them negatively as a consequence of this is either borne out of complete ignorance, or wanting to give a pass to people who commit such acts.

BalcombeSt4 · 11-09-2021 5:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874366#Comment_117874366

Right-wing people who think because Obama became president that mean't racism was officially dead, and anyone who deviates from this view is a snowflake militant communist, who wants to put everybody into fema camps.

Real Donald Trump · 11-09-2021 5:48am

Any person out on their own is subject to abuse/attack from strangers, and the person doesn't haven't to be black/Asian etc. having personally encountered this myself as a white bloke. Basically some people are just **** assholes, thankfully though, most people are decent.

randomname2005 · 11-09-2021 6:11am

I don't believe so unless there is an earth threatening event, day after tomorrow scenario, independence day, something like that which destroys the world as we know it and forces a united approach from every individual to solve it. But even then I have my doubts.

There will always be a section of society that feels hard done by. Some of those people will look to blame others. It can be a lot easier to say 'if it wasn't for the <Muslims, blacks, Jewish,...> Then my life would be better, I would have a better job, the government would be spending less on them and more on our own people.

People will always need somebody to blame and race is an easy target.

In addition to those you have the bigots and others who just believe that their race is the best and other races are lower quality of human, even when they have little to complain about. Education might help with this bunch but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In summary, no, because there will always be a percentage of a$$holz.

Edit: sorry to hear about the events above.

havana21 · 11-09-2021 6:18am

I’m so sorry for your wife, these racist pigs don’t realise the negative impact they have on people’s lives. It would be nice if we could obliterate it but sadly some people will never change. Hopefully karma will one day visit them!

11-09-2021 7:31am

I have not studied the area but my intuitions have always told me we can end racism if we make our society and policies and laws and institutions as "color blind" as possible. Unfortunately when I look at places like America with the "Critial Race Theory" and the stultification of education institutions and so forth I think they are taking the exact opposite approach by making everything hyper color aware as possible. So I can just hope that this works and proves all my innate intuitions wrong.

But OP I think rather than focus on one isolated horrible event like your wife experienced it helps to focus on general trends over all. As someone in a strange relationship I sometimes witness or am even the recipient of homophobia - despite being entirely heterosexual myself. And I suffer if I allow those isolated events to affect me. Rather I prefer to notice that the general trend is that 15 years ago when I started in this relationship is a massively different Ireland than it is today in terms of acceptance of alternative sexuality and life styles. And I think the same is true when it comes to racism too. Our world still has racism in it - but its still a different much improved world than 50 years ago or 500 years ago.

And a lot of that comes from conversation, education, knowledge and the erosion of ignorance. There is a prolific poster on this forum who once went off on one with me because I said I had "no dog in the fight" on the subject of Transgenderism for example. His reasoning was that since I had an alternative sexual relationship that I was simply "alternative" and that all that stuff was all the same so my claim to have had no dog in the fight was me telling an outright lie. In for one you are in for them all was his "reasoning" on the matter it seems.

That level of ignorance in what is an older male is dying off. Many people realize its not "Us and them" or "Standard and Alternative" and they start to understand the diversity and nuance in it all. And quite often the problem is not racism or homophobia or alternate-phobia. It is just basic uneducated garden variety ignorance and people like him simply having no idea what they are waffling and ranting on about.

The other issue of being moved too much by a single event or a small number of isolated events is we do not know the narrative of the person screaming out of the car. I was recently relistening to Eddie Izzard on Joe Rogan. He was telling the story of a guy screaming anti Transvestite abuse at Izzard in the street. Which Izzard rose to and was screaming abuse back in the street. Moved by his annoyance that such bigotry and phobia still existed. But it turned out later that this abuser was just mentally unstable and known in the area for screaming abuse at anyone on any subject. Who knows - this guy in the car might not actually be racist. He might just be unwell or have his own issues and might be in a lot of pain. Not that this justifies anything he screamed of course. But understanding it can help the recipient of it process the event.

Granted coming from a position of empathy like that for a stranger in a car screaming abuse at you or worse your loved ones is not an easy space to occupy. It takes practice and work and discipline to maintain that kind of acceptance and open mind - and even people practiced at it fail often. But I genuinely experience a level of well being and peace of mind from it myself when I view the world through that kind of lens.

Anyway that was a long monologue. I hope something in it brings you some peace of mind.

Wibbs · 11-09-2021 8:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874411#Comment_117874411

That's highly unlikely to happen and certainly not in the next 300 years. Even in our world of mass travel(much of it temporary) people overwhelmingly choose to be with and have children with people most like themselves. That includes "race" as well as social class, educational and cultural background, even attractiveness. While there is some mixing at the edges it's not the norm and hasn't been throughout human history. The vast majority of human beings alive today have a genetic background that matches what they look like and where their ancestors hailed from, even in ex European colonial nations that have had many different racial and ethnic groups living together for centuries. People tend to stay and think "local".

That local thinking also informs prejudice and racism. The Them Versus Us tendency is extremely strong in humans and again has been throughout human history. Even in cases of empire or religion where you have otherwise disparate members under those affiliations there is still the Them/Us stuff going on towards outsiders to those groups and even a heirarchy of Us within them. We are a social animal which is good, but part of the negativity of that is we also have a strong groupthink mentality. People who act or look least like "Us" pretty much automatically become "Them". Though these differences can be very subtle - an alien would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a Catholic and Protestant in 70's Ulster for example - obvious things like skin colour just makes this easier for the real want of a better word.

That's not to suggest all people are racist or prejudicial or partisan, though as a group we overwhelmingly tend to be.

Mad_maxx · 11-09-2021 10:36am

With the ever expanding grievance hustler industry?

Not a chance

Real racism is stupid, no one is superior to another person based on racial difference.

Cultural difference is a different matter

Wibbs · 11-09-2021 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874466#Comment_117874466

Thinking more on this, I'm not so sure it would end. After the intitial shock of the new, you'd likely get that old human jostling for advantage with the new arrivals and some groups would support them, others would not and a Them and Us could be fostered along those lines. Look at when the Spanish showed up in the Americas. They arrived in their giant boats like "aliens" looking quite different to the locals, with other worldly technology and horses and quite the number of local groups allied themselves with them to fight their existing enemies.

Depends on the nature of the aliens too I suppose.

B.A._Baracus · 11-09-2021 2:34pm

Sadly, it will never stop.

People are assholes. Not everyone. But enough.

Tell me how · 12-09-2021 3:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875661#Comment_117875661

The chance to travel, experience, observe and mix with other races today bears no relation to the vast majority of time that humans have walked the planet and if there was an ability to score the average persons awareness of or opportunity for integration (for however long) of other cultures throughout that time there would have been a massive jump in such a metric within the last 50 odd years as TV, the internet and access to low cost travel changed these things.

These opportunities are unlikely to change (although low cost travel probably should) and so it is simply wrong to suggest people didn't mix so much throughout history and as a consequence are unlikely to do so in future. It is clear some people wish that this would be the case but the trends suggest otherwise.

In the US, the rate of new marriages that are interracial grew nearly 6 fold between 1967 and 2015 to nearly 1 in 5 being such. As generations go by and kids from these marriages look for partners, you would think the concept of race matching won't even enter most of their minds.

Wibbs · 12-09-2021 8:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879214#Comment_117879214

Plausible in theory, but in practice not so much. Yes we have more chances to travel, but you're mistaking speed and convenience for volume and permanence and as I noted the majority of it is temporary and nothing like the mass movements of people that occurred in the European age of colonisation, or under Rome, or the Caliphates for a few examples(there are more across the world and history). Yep, in the past people couldn't go for a week in the sun, but when they did travel, they almost always stayed where they travelled to and were more likely to end up with a "local" with it. And travel people did, usually on the back of conquest, political change and economics.

Secondly you use America as an example. One of those European colonies that sucked in a load of different cultures and people(many of whom unwillingly of course). Where different "races" were jammed together and even in those examples the trend was and remains the same. People overwhelmingly choose to be with and have children with people most like themselves. That interracial marriages grew since 1967 is hardly a shock as before that date it was illegal in many states, but 50+ years later the current rate is 15 odd % of marriages. Even within that percentage there are racial differences and racial undertones with it. For example White Americans are least likely to be in an interracial marriage(around 2%). There are gender differences too, so there are over double the number of marriages of Black American men to White American women compared to the opposite setup. The least likely by a good measure is Asian American man with Black American woman. On the other hand the most common pairing is a White American man with an Asian American woman. Asian American and Black pairings are a tiny minority. Hispanic Americans when they marry outside that category overwhelmingly marry White Americans(and only in American notions would you have Spanish Americans as "non White"). Women in general have been found to state a stronger preference for "one of their own" compared to men in general and had more caveats along racial lines. Even in Latin America where interracial pairings are about the highest on the planet, the majority still marry in rather than marry out.

Not exactly the simple "melting pot" at all and as I said these are in environments where different groups co-exist and similar patterns are found throughout the same ex European colonies. In the rest of the world, much of it not multicultural in the Western sense the percentages are much lower and again similar trends are in play. Interracial pairings are the minority, men are more likely to marry a different "race", women less likely and more likely to marry closer to "their own" and it seems there are still hierarchies of social "acceptablity" along racial lines in place. In the UK which is multicultural and has been for many generations under 10% were in an interracial setup and the majority of them were of mixed background themselves.

So not much of a trend towards the human race ending up all sallow skinned, with black hair and brown eyes.

Will racism ever end?

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