The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

strange how we ended up removing Morris from the game when a carbon copy on the waterford side in Prendergast had such an impact on their game running from deep, Jake left to flounder inside with Seamie when he would revel in that role, Noel is a legend and a magician but if u can't defend against the runner or threaten going the other way by going past your man then it's hard to justify why u would play a deep role in the middle 3rd v waterford...or limerick for that matter (who would have been the team to beat in a potential final), pinging balls 90 yards to tightly marked forwards turning into a sweeper was a terrible percentage ball as well as being predictable, we had a spoiler in Alan Flynn on the ball way too often in the middle 3rd when we actually won possession then. Interesting input from Ken hogan on Dalo podcast, First team being beaten by the B team in training, Mark kehoe fired his hurley into the ground after the final whistle, I can imagine his frustration having the form, pace & skills to take on Waterford backs and only getting 20 mins to do it..

Mod Warning:

A poster was warned re his/her posting style.

That should be the end of the matter and does not mean it is open season to attack that poster.

You're right. Hopefully, Tynan will turn out to be a Dessie Hutchinson type. A tall order, but he has the speed, anyway. And maybe the Billy McCarthy investment might work out too and he can get back to play for Tipp again, another direct runner.

Well there hasn't been any reaction in here since the news broke. I'm devastated - feels like one of the biggest setbacks we have had in a very, very long time. I've spoken to a few people today and there is a lot of anger out there. For Cahill to walk away from his own county when we needed him so badly is not going to be forgotten - I'm quite certain that the job will not be offered to him again.

So where does that leave us - well there are 2 internal candidates in the mix and both should be nowhere near the job in all honesty.

• Darragh Egan is part of the same management system/group/clique that have been running the show since 2008 and Tipperary hurling more than anything needs some fresh ideas. The last thing that is needed is a continuation of the same under a completely unproven coach.
• Willie Maher would be a better candidate purely in terms of freshness. I don't put too much stock in him winning with Dublin club championships Cuala to be honest - they are far and away the best team in Dublin. If we are staying internal then he is the pick of the two candidates for sure.
• Then you're onto your Brendan Cummins types, or a Colm Bonnar.

I've heard that a small contingent in County Board are pushing for Micheal Donoghue - significant resistance to this because he is external, however he was part of the backroom team in 2014 and 2015 and could also bring Lukasz back with him - so there are some links there. In my opinion we must swallow our pride and reach out to him now - because the two candidates above are oceans behind him in terms of ability and Tipperary are at a massively critical juncture. Mishandle this by going for the poor internal option out of pride or tradition and we could face a long time in the doldrums.

Willy Maher or Declan Fanning - I'd imagine. Both weakness are that they have been out of the club scene a while. Fanning is a coach with Na Piarsaigh. And Willy Maher has gone all around the houses. In Kilkenny at the moment, I think?

Brian Horgan at Kickhams? (what would that mean for the brownes and ryans?)?

The Board could try and put a management team together - I think they have to go for people who are knee deep in the club scene - people like Johnny Kelly at Borris and Flannery at Kildangan as selectors and - put someone like Willy Maher or Darragh Egan at the helm with Fanning as coach. Whether they can convince O'Donoghue to be a selector or involved in some director capacity remains to be seen. Maybe they could get O'Shea to convince him.

Darragh Egan was 22 in 2008... - he only came into the Tipp set up on Sheedy's second term. Several county boards have sounded Egan out -Wexford, and even Waterford, if Cahill didn't work out.

There's no reason to panic. There's a lot mud being slung. I'm just going to post a few quotes to cut through a lot of bullshit that has been posted on here, Twitter, and elsewhere.

The Count Board Chairman: “I don’t think there’s anything terrible wrong with Tipperary hurling. Not at all. It’ll be more a question of re-energising the batteries than anything else. We are not down in the dumps.

“We are a long way off the doldrums we experienced in the mid-noughties, and this situation is a massive part of Liam Sheedy’s legacy, and that part of it should not be forgotten. He bows out with Tipp in a far better situation than we had when he came in.” 

“The County Board will make their choice in due course. We will see good candidates, no doubt. But the successful man will have to be Tipp to the core.

“Tipperary is the same as Kilkenny and Cork. Pure Tipp, pure Kilkenny, pure Cork… Nothing else works. It has to be one of your own managing the Senior hurlers. Nothing else works.” 

Costigan admires an obvious candidate but re-emphasises the main consideration: “Is Liam Cahill Tipp to the core? Of course he is, especially down there on the border with Kilkenny in Ballingarry. And does he deserve to be considered for the job, after what he achieved with the Tipperary U21s and U20s, and then with Waterford? Of course he does.

“But he is not alone, in that regard. We have very fine hurling people in Tipp, and the current County Board will take proper time in making the best choice for Tipp.”

Liam Cahill:

Liam Cahill has revealed he spoke to the Tipperary County Board about the vacant senior post following last year’s All-Ireland U21 win but withdrew from the race once Liam Sheedy entered the equation.

Liam Cahill:

And the decision to entrust Sheedy with the senior managerial reins was one Cahill always viewed as ‘a no-brainer’.

“It was all fairly helter skelter after the U21 All-Ireland. Michael Ryan had stepped aside and obviously names were going to be bandied about. At the time it wasn’t the be all and end all, but when you did enter the process you’d like to maybe have the success of being appointed.

“Myself and Mikey (Bevans), in particular who was part of my intentions going forward, we knew Liam Sheedy was in the mix. It was a no brainer for everybody involved and it has (been) proven right.

“He was the right man at the right time with the ample experience required for a team that was in a situation needing to kick on. He had the expertise of having worked with some of these older players before so the fit was just right.

“Hats off to everybody, especially to Liam, his management team, all the players involved and to the county board and everybody associated with the appointment. It was work well done.”

Liam Sheedy also wanted Liam Cahill to get the job as he said in recent weeks.

There's a lot of voices with bad intentions, stoking fires about cliques and Cahill being shunted and bad blood, it's all bullshit. Cahill has chosen Waterford and his reasons are his own. Don't let those doomsayers, usually from outside the county or negative people within, dominate the narrative with that bull.

The vast majority of people in Tipp, particularly the board, are doing everything to get things right and with the right intentions.

People will look for excuses and deeper causes that aren't true because they don't want to believe one of their own chose another county.

Cahill and Bevans are out of the equation now and the new management TEAM, this is not a bout one person, must be found. The board put O'Shea and Sheedy together before, and they can find the right mix again, but they need to find someone who is willing and able. A Tipp person to head the whole operation, not coach it. And they're plenty of them around.

Hon Tipp.

Not every player is going to be a Tony Kelly. Tipperary U21's beat the Cork U21 team to win the 2018 U21 All Ireland. That's before we even get into the U-20's the following year.

I'm not going to include subs in the next bit.

From that team Cork had the following EIGHT players START in the All Ireland Final 2 weeks ago -

Niall O’Leary, Mark Coleman, Conor Cahalane, Darragh Fitzgibbon, Robbie O’Flynn, Shane Kingston, Tim O’Mahony, Jack O’ Connor.

From the Tipperary team that day, we had TWO players start against Waterford -

Barry Hogan, Jake Morris.

Now I know that we were operating from a base of superior quality compared to Cork - but there's no way that just two of ours can make the breakthrough if eight of theirs can. There is talent down there that Sheedy has ignored. And now we are going to have to bring a lot of it through at once - and suffer in the meantime. Under Cahill, the hope was that we could be competitive during the transition and that the transition would be short. But under a different manager? Would Darragh Egan be able to make the transition required or would he be loyal like Sheedy was (even before looking at his actual ability - which is miles off Cahills)?

There is talent there and plenty of it. But we need to bury our pride and look outside the county now for the next man (hopefully Donoghue).

Read the county board chairman quote i posted above - an outside manager won't happen. Maybe a coach, perhaps. A selector, maybe. Not a manager. No way.

How can you be dismissive of Egan's ability? He hasn't even done the job yet. He has been part of the biggest club success story in Tipp in recent times. Part of an all-ireland winning ticket. And he is held in very high regard. A young, modern coach. What evidence have you got to be dismissive of his ability or that he is overly loyal?

Why would you mention Cahill when he is out of the picture? It's over.

Plenty of lads capable of managing from Tipp.

Sorry for the rant in advance. I have to say I am very surprised Cahill did not take it. I understand that is he in the middle of something at Waterford but this still feels like a sucker punch from him as I think the potential of Tipperary is above anything he can achieve with Waterford and the need for someone like him is now.

I also do not buy this story about being snubbed in 2019 and thats why he has turned it down. He had just won the U21 in what was realistically a shock result against Cork and had not taken the U20 team to Munster and All Ireland championships until after Sheedy was re-appointed. It was a choice between a minor and U21 winning manager vs a Minor, League, 2 x Munster, All Ireland winner. No brainer at the time and as 2019 showed it was the correct decision.

His decision now must be based on where he has and thinks he can take Waterford over the next 1, 2 or 3 years and it is a project he obviously wants to finish. But there is no guarantee that this job will ever come his way again, and no guarantee he will have any success with Waterford. Personally, I feel he has made a major mistake in not taking it.

I look at Waterford and I just cannot see an All Ireland in them. I cannot see them being able to put enough big performances back to back to get over the line. He has lifted them from their 2018 and 2019 form no doubt and shown how good he is in doing that, but I think going back through his 20 games over Waterford, they have not put more than 2 good performances back to back because they are not capable of it. Clare Kilkenny last year and Galway Tipp this year. And I would add a big caveat to the Galway and Tipp games this year as I feel both did not perform near to their potentials, where as Waterford appeared to be peaking. Granted, the last 2 years we have not put multiple performances side by side either but our last 2 years are being looked upon as absolute failures of years given the squad we have available, Waterfords are being looked upon as huge successes.

They have also not come close to beating Limerick in these two years when its mattered. Losing by 4, 4, 11, winning by 4 and losing by 11 again to Limerick. The win coming at home, in the league, after Limerick lead by 5 before going down to 14 men. We managed more damage to Limerick in one half than they have managed in 3 championship outings. I just think they have reached their ceiling. Its a biased view, but I can see much more talent in our ranks than theirs. They are performing with what they have, we are not, yet both teams are very close in quality at this moment.

This year alone, 10 matches for Waterford and I can only see 3 performances of note. Tipp in the league, Galway and Tipp in championship. I see 6 VERY poor performances against Cork, Westmeath, Galway in the league and Clare, Laois, Limerick in the championship. Their form this year has been clearly worse than last year. What more he thinks he can get out of them I do not know. He has organised them, disciplined them, and brought them to their peak. I cannot see much more of a step up.

The job was as good as there for him, he had finished his 2 years at Waterford and he has effectively chosen them above us. We can no longer look at him as being the next one to take us on our next step, he is now a full blown rival to Tipperary. Prior to this, success was hoped for him, except at our expense, so he could prove himself at inter-county before taking the job he has said he wants at some stage. This is no longer the case.

As for who takes over next. There is a long list of options. In Tipp, none as tried and tested as Cahill but some very good options none the less. Bonner, Egan, Maher, Fanning, Dunne.

I never thought we would go outside of the county but Donoghue should be looked upon as a real option. As manager he has won a county championship and club All Ireland, League, Leinsters and an All Ireland.

Kiladangan and Loughmore served up another classic in the stadium tonight.

2-23 to 2-22

Another injury time score gets the win for Kiladangan. Alan Flynn with the winner and just brilliant all night. John McGrath getting back to his best and, well, both sides gave everything.