The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

ShamoBuc

Shiny new thread, enjoy !!

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https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057537601

Mantis Toboggan

Right lads, Tipp for Liam 2021!!

formerlyET

Tipp team v Waterford: 4 changes from Westmeath match

Brian Hogan
Cathal Barrett
Padraic Maher
Barry Heffernan
Brendan Maher
Seamus Kennedy
Ronan Maher
Alan Flynn
Paddy Cadell
Dan McCormack
Noel McGrath
Michael Breen
Jason Forde
Seamus Callanan
Jake Morris

formerlyET

Ompala

Not the team I was expecting, Sheedy going all out for the win by the looks of it. I'm taking Breen at 12 to be there to track Lyons

formerlyET

Ompala wrote: »

Not the team I was expecting, Sheedy going all out for the win by the looks of it. I'm taking Breen at 12 to be there to track Lyons

NOt the team I was expecting either. Sheedy getting as many mins as possible into these player's legs - just hope there's no injuries.

I wonder if Niall O'Meara has an injury - has dropped off the match panel the last two days.

Big game for Breen, Flynn, and Cadell. Breen will find that assignment tough - Lyons is flying it.

Very interesting subs bench.

Cahill had to change it up after shipping two massive scores. Cahill is going for this game big time:

formerlyET

Ompala

formerlyET wrote: »

NOt the team I was expecting either. Sheedy getting as many mins as possible into these player's legs - just hope there's no injuries.

I wonder if Niall O'Meara has an injury - has dropped off the match panel the last two days.

Big game for Breen, Flynn, and Cadell. Breen will find that assignment tough - Lyons is flying it.

Very interesting subs bench.

Cahill had to change it up after shipping two massive scores. Cahill is going for this game big time:

Sunday just got a lot more interesting having seen the Waterford line up. Will be a good test of our defence as Waterford will run at us and take us on, similar to Cork I guess.

No Bubbles either, thought he did well vs Galway, would like to get more game time into him. Roll on Sunday!

formerlyET

Ompala wrote: »

Sunday just got a lot more interesting having seen the Waterford line up. Will be a good test of our defence as Waterford will run at us and take us on, similar to Cork I guess.

No Bubbles either, thought he did well vs Galway, would like to get more game time into him. Roll on Sunday!

Yeah, it will be a much needed test of our defence - particularly, full back. Waterford forwards are moving well. They've rejigged their back line.

Yeah, I thought Bubbles was motoring well. Maybe he picked up a niggle - hope not. He's had no luck with injuries since 2019.

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Shiny new thread, enjoy !!

Old Thread
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057537601

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Right lads, Tipp for Liam 2021!!

A Cork man opening our new thread!!!.ooooh I dunno a bad omen?!

Pogue eile

formerlyET wrote: »

I wonder if Niall O'Meara has an injury - has dropped off the match panel the last two days.

Ompala wrote: »

No Bubbles either, thought he did well vs Galway, would like to get more game time into him. Roll on Sunday!

Both are injured, Bubbles hamstring and Bill had his appendix removed.

formerlyET

Pogue eile wrote: »

Both are injured, Bubbles hamstring and Bill had his appendix removed.

Any word on the grade of the tear?

Pogue eile

formerlyET wrote: »

Any word on the grade of the tear?

No tear, only a precaution.

formerlyET

Tipp backs looked to have changed their minds about the game after Hutchinson's wild pull on Barrett. Hopefully not a bad injury for Barrett. More important days ahead.

Mantis Toboggan

In big trouble here, getting beaten all over the field.

Very worrying. Waterford should be home and hosed. They are destroying us. Missed three goal chances. 6 down, should be 12

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

In big trouble here, getting beaten all over the field.

Wouldn't be too worried. We've learned a lot today.

Waterford are still playing the same way as last year. They haven't learned anything. Still playing the same way. It's exciting - but do they have the backs to play like that. Backs like an open gate.

We've taken off McCormack and Flynn and Kennedy. We've left Callanan on to get minutes in his legs. Tells its own story.

formerlyET

2022 League grouping
1A: Galway, Wexford, Clare, Limerick, Cork, Laois/Westmeath

1B: Kilkenny, Waterford, Tipperary, Antrim, Dublin, Offaly.

Mantis Toboggan

formerlyET wrote: »

Wouldn't be too worried. We've learned a lot today.

Waterford are still playing the same way as last year. They haven't learned anything. Still playing the same way. It's exciting - but do they have the backs to play like that. Backs like an open gate.

We've taken off McCormack and Flynn and Kennedy. We've left Callanan on to get minutes in his legs. Tells its own story.

What have we learned?

Think we already knew that we lack pace and are in all kinds of bother when powerful athletic teams run at us.

Pogue eile

Was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention pace!

The biggest myth in hurling. Was pace not a requirement in 2016 and 2019?

What team is comfortable when a big powerful athletic team runs at them??

Mantis Toboggan

Cleaned out in midfield also and forwards looking a long way off the pace, lots to ponder for Sheedy. Hopefully won't be another awful year like last year.

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

What have we learned?

Think we already knew that we lack pace and are in all kinds of bother when powerful athletic teams run at us.

I don't think we lack pace. I've heard that ****e since 2010.

Let's just say, number 1, we've saw how Tipp set up, formation wise in games throughout different parts of the league. That wasn't it.

We learned the importance of fresh legs after five games in close succession...

We learned a load about Waterford - particularly what they'll do when their backs come under pressure...

It's a pity we didn't get to play Clare.

If you were going balls out for that game? Would you take off Kennedy and McCormack?

Lost Ormond

Pogue eile wrote: »

Was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention pace!

The biggest myth in hurling. Was pace not a requirement in 2016 and 2019?

What team is comfortable when a big powerful athletic team runs at them??

Pace is hardly a myth. If you dont have pace. little you can do.

Yes few teams are comfortable but many are much better at dealing with it than others....

Pogue eile

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Pace is hardly a myth. If you dont have pace. little you can do.

Yes few teams are comfortable but many are much better at dealing with it than others....

How did we win in 2016 and 2019 so, and how have Cork not won all before them??

We have pleny of pace in the team, its the same lazy analysis that no doubt we will get in the next few days about Tipp being too old, its clichéd nonesene.

Mantis Toboggan

Along with a lack of pace a big problem today was lads not willing to track runners, Waterford just bombed forward at every opportunity and we just looked shocked. This is what Waterford do, it got them to munster and all ireland finals last year. Cahill definitely got one over Sheedy today, super job he's doing with Waterford.

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

How did we win in 2016 and 2019 so, and how have Cork not won all before them??

We have pleny of pace in the team, its the same lazy analysis that no doubt we will get in the next few days about Tipp being too old, its clichéd nonesene.

Well, we struggled to deal with Waterford today, and the fact of the matter is that we have a few of our experienced heads in our 30s so its hardly a myth now. Too early to really tell what sort of season we will have. I wouldn't rule us out just yet, but we'll definitely have to cope with runners better than we did today. Id have liked to have seen more players blooded during this league, but then you run the risk of not having a settled team ahead of championship similar to Mick Ryans last two seasons.

Franz Beckenbauer the great German footballer wasn't known for his pace, but had great ability to read a game which to be fair to Paudie, Brendan, etc, they have that same ability in their own code. Time waits for no man though. Its a big ask for these lads to go back to the well once more even with all their fitness and experience. Ill leave my arse on the fence for now, and missing out on a league final may not be a bad thing in the long run, but a few things to ponder certainly for the management.

Lost Ormond

Pogue eile wrote: »

How did we win in 2016 and 2019 so, and how have Cork not won all before them??

We have pleny of pace in the team, its the same lazy analysis that no doubt we will get in the next few days about Tipp being too old, its clichéd nonesene.

2016 is 5 years ago now. A long time....
Plenty of pace isnt true. Struggled to deal with Waterford today and with age of some of the main guys involved its ridiculous to say its a myth or cliched.

Pogue eile

I could have sworn it was a league game, had no idea that we were taking it so seriously, maybe Liam Shedy didnt get the memo either!

Waterford were hockeyed by both Galway and Cork and fell over the line against Wmeath are now suddenly going great guns and Tipp who heretofore were unbeaten are a bunch of slow old men now!

Today was a better day for Liam Sheedy than it was for Liam Cahill when you consider Austin Gleeson having to leave the field injured two weeks before they face Clare in the championship.

Pogue eile

Lost Ormond wrote: »

2016 is 5 years ago now. A long time....
Plenty of pace isnt true. Struggled to deal with Waterford today and with age of some of the main guys involved its ridiculous to say its a myth or cliched.

Age of who? come on give me the stats there.

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

Age of who? come on give me the stats there.

Noelie 30, Paudie, and Brendan both 32 with Bonnar 32 in October (who unfortunately is gone for the year), Seamie 33 in September, Bubbles 30 in September. Dont think anyone is writing off Tipperary really but plenty food for thought after today.

Pogue eile

Deleted User wrote: »

Noelie 30, Paudie, and Brendan both 32 with Bonnar 32 in October (who unfortunately is gone for the year), Seamie 33 in September, Bubbles 30 in September. Dont think anyone is writing off Tipperary really but plenty food for thought after today.

So all the same age or younger than Joe Canning and Tj Reid, both widly acknowledged as two of the best players in the game.

How is 30 considered old? Galway have 5 of their first choice 15 over 30 and I have not once heard anyone ever refer to them as old. One of Ger Loughanes greatest achievements was convincing people that Tipp were old - the same team won an AI since he started that nonesene.

Bubbles is 29, so thats just silly!

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Lost Ormond

Pogue eile wrote: »

Age of who? come on give me the stats there.

Paudie, Brendan Maher, Bubbles, Noel McGrath all been in set up for a decade. 50+ games for many of them in championship
All around 32/33...

Pogue eile

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Paudie, Brendan Maher, Bubbles, Noel McGrath all been in set up for a decade. 50+ games for many of them in championship
All around 32/33...

Noel Mcgrath is 30, Bubbles is 29..........

Pogue eile

Pogue eile wrote: »

So all the same age or younger than Joe Canning and Tj Reid, both widly acknowledged as two of the best players in the game.

How is 30 considered old? Galway have 5 of their first choice 15 over 30 and I have not once heard anyone ever refer to them as old. One of Ger Loughanes greatest achievements was convincing people that Tipp were old - the same team won an AI since he started that nonesene.

Bubbles is 29, so thats just silly!

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Dont think anyone is disputing your last point. Good point re TJ Reid and Joe Canning too. The fact stands though that we have a group of players that are over the 30 and we will have to start planning for life without them because they are going to walk away sooner rather than later. These are amateur athletes who will begin have other plans and priorities in life. Let Galway worry about Galway.

Lost Ormond

Pogue eile wrote: »

Noel Mcgrath is 30, Bubbles is 29..........

Ok but Noel McGrath may be 30 but has 55 championship appearances. has a lot of miles through club success with Loughmore as well going into Munster

I am not disputing that these players are some of the best to ever play for tipp and would make pretty much every side in the country ...... but theyre all 30 year olds or more and whove been central to senior set up since last year or two playing under 21s. Theyve more than a decade playing at this level and it will show .....

formerlyET

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Ok but Noel McGrath may be 30 but has 55 championship appearances. has a lot of miles through club success with Loughmore as well going into Munster

I am not disputing that these players are some of the best to ever play for tipp and would make pretty much every side in the country ...... but theyre all 30 year olds or more and whove been central to senior set up since last year or two playing under 21s. Theyve more than a decade playing at this level and it will show .....

Noel McGrath scored 1-2...

And I know Bubbles tried to get up and down the pitch, but there's only so much you can do from Killenaule.

Pogue eile

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Ok but Noel McGrath may be 30 but has 55 championship appearances. has a lot of miles through club success with Loughmore as well going into Munster

I am not disputing that these players are some of the best to ever play for tipp and would make pretty much every side in the country ...... but theyre all 30 year olds or more and whove been central to senior set up since last year or two playing under 21s. Theyve more than a decade playing at this level and it will show .....

When did 30 become too old? How many games have Joe canning and TJ Reid played?

Noel McGrath is a terrible example anyway, Noel didnt have this supposed magic ingredient of pace even when he was 19. But he has one of the finest hurling brains in the game, exemplary vision and bags of skill - none of those diminish just becasue you are 30.

formerlyET

Our problems stemmed from a lack of tactical nous in midfield, the way we were set up, and ball retention up front. Nothing to do with pace.

At one stage Callanan chased back over a hundred yards - no problem with the legs there - a man trying to get his fitness up...

In fact, what led to the exposed areas was where we were greenest and not older.

And I could see one player in particular getting a hard time at the water break who is starting out rather than getting long in the tooth.

FintanMcluskey

Pogue eile wrote: »

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Those 4 aren’t walking onto Limericks starting lineup

Even questionable for Galway’s

Tipp 77

We have a lack of pace in the backline but the main problem to me today was the forwards didn't work collectively hard enough to stop Waterford carrying it out at will.Their backs weren't tracked well enough coming out and that completely opened us up. The Waterford forwards put an awful lot more pressure on us and won turnovers and forced frees for over carrying and stopped the backs putting quality ball in. If we play them in the Munster semi final if the workrate isn't there up front we will have the same problem

Pogue eile

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Those 4 aren’t walking onto Limericks starting lineup

Even questionable for Galway’s

Well we will have to agree to disagree, its not someting that obviously we will ever know.

Galway are older than Tipp and not a hope in hell they have 15 better players than those four.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd have no doubt that Sheedy took the league seriously, his team selections would suggest this. 5 games played and 2 wins (1 of them Westmeath) and we saved our worst performance until last. It would have to be somewhat concerning.

What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?

It will be a different game in few weeks if we play them in the championship but we'll need to be much better setup and a proper plan to deal with their running game.

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I'd have no doubt that Sheedy took the league seriously, his team selections would suggest this. 5 games played and 2 wins (1 of them Westmeath) and we saved our worst performance until last. It would have to be somewhat concerning.

What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?

It will be a different game in few weeks if we play them in the championship but we'll need to be much better setup and a proper plan to deal with their running game.

Just last week you posted this:

07-06-2021, 17:55 #9942
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I don't think we'll see a full strength side for Waterford on Sunday. Few players could do with a rest.

Paidie is made for full back. Any side playing 2 inside forwards I'd imagine he'll become a sweeper. We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.
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Mantis Toboggan

formerlyET wrote: »

Just last week you posted this:

07-06-2021, 17:55 #9942
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I don't think we'll see a full strength side for Waterford on Sunday. Few players could do with a rest.

Paidie is made for full back. Any side playing 2 inside forwards I'd imagine he'll become a sweeper. We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.
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And?

formerlyET

This last week:
We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.

And this today:
What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?


And?

Mantis Toboggan

formerlyET wrote: »

This last week:
We're developing a decent squad with plenty of depth. Subs well capable of making a difference.

And this today:
What's been really disappointing over the last few years is very few young players making the step up for whatever reason. We've had successful underage teams. Sheedy seems very reluctant to give these guys a chance. Sometimes you just need to give youngsters the opportunity and back them. Kiely is playing a lad doing his leaving cert and he looks the part already and they're reigning champions. We're not really building anything for the future, possibly Sheedy's last year?


And?

Obviously you've alot of time on your hands for a Sunday evening to be going through people's post history. Fortunately I've better things to be doing.

If you want to debate my posts then I'm happy to listen to your opinion. So, do you not agree that we have a decent squad? Also do you think the young players coming through have flourished and developed in the 3 years under Sheedy?

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Obviously you've alot of time on your hands for a Sunday evening to be going through people's post history. Fortunately I've better things to be doing.

If you want to debate my posts then I'm happy to listen to your opinion. So, do you not agree that we have a decent squad? Also do you think the young players coming through have flourished and developed in the 3 years under Sheedy?

My point is, both your points contradict each other. In the space of a week we went from a squad with depth to not developing young guys.

It's up to the young lads to produce when called upon. They did when called on in 2019. So, up to them to keep going and produce the goods - only issue is there's quality with more experience ahead of them. I don't think Tipp get too excited about the league. I think we'll go close this year, if not win it. Have as much a chance as anyone.

Look at your post here from 2019. A good omen?
Also you were worried about pace when we went play cork down in cork in 2019.

16-03-2019, 19:23 #7129
Mantis Toboggan
Been a really disappointing league truth be told. 6 games 4 defeats and we've arguably put out our strongest team in each game. Eamonn O'Shea will have to work miracles in May.

1373

Pogue eile wrote: »

So all the same age or younger than Joe Canning and Tj Reid, both widly acknowledged as two of the best players in the game.

How is 30 considered old? Galway have 5 of their first choice 15 over 30 and I have not once heard anyone ever refer to them as old. One of Ger Loughanes greatest achievements was convincing people that Tipp were old - the same team won an AI since he started that nonesene.

Bubbles is 29, so thats just silly!

Noel, Brendan, Paudie and Seamie are four of the greatest hurlers to have ever donned the blue and gold and would walk on to every single team in the country bar none.

Maybe or maybe not, but there’s several players on the Tipp match day 20 that would not trouble club teams , never mind inter county teams

Lost Ormond

formerlyET wrote: »

My point is, both your points contradict each other. In the space of a week we went from a squad with depth to not developing young guys.

It's up to the young lads to produce when called upon. They did when called on in 2019. So, up to them to keep going and produce the goods - only issue is there's quality with more experience ahead of them. I don't think Tipp get too excited about the league. I think we'll go close this year, if not win it. Have as much a chance as anyone.

Look at your post here from 2019. A good omen?
Also you were worried about pace when we went play cork down in cork in 2019.

16-03-2019, 19:23 #7129
Mantis Toboggan
Been a really disappointing league truth be told. 6 games 4 defeats and we've arguably put out our strongest team in each game. Eamonn O'Shea will have to work miracles in May.

Would you not quote the posts using the

tags,,,
might be easier to read then.

1373 wrote: »

Maybe or maybe not, but there’s several players on the Tipp match day 20 that would not trouble club teams , never mind inter county teams

Ah thats not really true. its not that bad!!

Pogue eile

1373 wrote: »

Maybe or maybe not, but there’s several players on the Tipp match day 20 that would not trouble club teams , never mind inter county teams

See if you are going to talk pure and utter tripe its very hard to take anything you say serioulsly.

A match day 20? Not really sure what that is to be honest, but anyway can you please name the players in the Tipp panel who would 'not trouble club teams' ??

Ompala

Haven't seen any of the game (I know, a sin!) so can only go by match reports.
Seemed it was nip and tuck until the 3rd quarter, then we Waterford took over and that was the winning of it, we were playing catch up after that.
Not a terrible position to be in coming into Championship with items to work on (every team has them) but I'll have to watch the game before commenting fully.
As a matter of interest, anyone know what our wide count was today?