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Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    We have a new plan coming in the autumn says MM, jauntily named The Climate Action Plan 2021!





  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Fabulous. Has a quote in the article from Paschal that carbon taxes are going up up up. Be prepared to pay through the nostrils in the name of "climate action". Their only plan is to always get the average Joe to pay more of their hard earned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,525 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If we had the old Boards I'd probably be able to find a post I made on one of the Greta threads in which I outlined a number of things, but, in the absence of that, here are some quick things that I think we should do.

    Let me start by doing something everyone will love in creating another political structure to oversee it. Let's appoint them the Minister for Sustainability.

    Promote walking/cycling/public transport/car sharing/car pooling where possible in all instances ahead of single person private car use.

    Ban single use plastics in all cases where doing so does not create a health risk. Stop arguing about plastic/paper/reusable straws and have no straws and serve drinks in to reusable cups the customer owns with an open lid or spout or whatever they want to drink from. Ideally we'd have similar for takeaway food portions or pay more to eat in and use washable dishes.

    Plant natural native forests in every inch of the country where the land is publicly held and currently not in use. Offer incentives for private land owners to do the same thing.

    Create initiatives for the further installation of energy saving options whether it be insulation, windows, solar panels etc.

    Block the installation of further data farms which provide minimal employment at a massive energy cost.

    Commit to shutting down Moneypoint AND replacing its output in a reasonable fashion, or prevent introducing future demand until the energy can be supplied in a more sustainable fashion.

    Introduce legislation that every product sold above a certain value should be repairable both in availability of parts, and practicality to do so.

    Find a way to bring farmers on board for more sustainable practices and/or alternative food sources. Because of the EU (which being a member of is much more positive than negative) we probably can't ban the import or increase taxes on foods which are shipped from abroad but could be grown here but I think something like that would help keep food sources local and seasonal which might become an option for farmers as an alternative to beef production.

    On that note, penalise food producers for wasted produce. 54% of all bread apparently never makes it to a plate. Find a way to reduce this whether it be getting people to accept 'less aesthetically pleasing food' or forcing producers to be more efficient and streamlined in their manufacturing processes.

    Dramatically Increase taxes on fast fashion clothing items encouraging people to purchase more natural, long lasting items.

    Have an ongoing communication and advertisement drive on current and future initiatives detailing what is being done, what benefits we are seeing and what is next. If there are no benefits, don't hide from this, acknowledge it and reassess.

    I'm not suggesting the above will fix all problems, or that they will be acceptable to everyone but you asked me to name some things which could be done, and these are just some of them. 50% of all car journeys are less then 5 miles I think it is (very doable on a bike) and the average car spends 92% of its time sitting parked. Is it worth their total expenditure just to have that flexibility of driving when you want particularly when in areas where there is public transport, you would probably be faster taking the bus or cycling than being in a car.

    The idea is, if we do what we can, where we can, we are in a better position to pressure other countries to do so rather than small countries saying there's no point us doing anything while US and China are polluting, and large countries saying why should we do anything when small countries won't.

    I'm partly joking about the Minister for Sustainability the Minister for the Environment is the obvious person but there needs to be joined up thinking between Agriculture, Transport, the Environment, Trade etc etc etc. Heretofore, the issue of the climate has been treated like a bad smell, it needs attention, but only for long enough that people stop thinking about it. That's no longer the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey




  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I'm less concerned about the up and up of taxes as I am about the "where's the plan and what do we need to do" part.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,006 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I saw this coming about a decade ago and made plans to emigrate, which are now in play.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Any money has to be ring-fenced, no cronies can be involved in any projects, basically a blacklist of all current government contractors



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ESB have committed to shutting down moneypoint and replacing with moneypoint one and two which are offshore wind farms.

    https://www.moneypointoffshorewind.ie/

    I wonder will it ever happen as there’s bound to be objections as with every major infrastructure project in Ireland.

    that’s a problem that really needs to be looked at.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    The only plan is how to remove money from your pocket and put it in some cronies pocket,



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    A big +1 to that.

    Personally,I far more concerned about the mass manipulation of docile humanity into ythe welcoming arms of the Big Pharma's or whichever crowd is on hand to fleece us all.

    The Planet will shake us off,long before we threaten the Planet in any meaningful way.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Doesn't carbon tax just go straight into the infamous general pot? Don't expect that to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭jackboy


    A lot of these actions would have major benefits and some would be easy to implement. Unfortunately though the politicians are going to use climate change to increase taxes instead and allow destruction of the environment to continue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    It's all about getting us to part with cash. More tax and if you want to get some insulation or solar panels installed at home, yep you need to shell out big time for that and hope to get back a small portion of it in some grant. Cost of public transport continues to go up and those smart meters being installed must be the biggest con job going. The smart "green" electricity plans are more convoluted and worse value than the traditional electricity rates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    It's definitely noteworthy,that the current "Message" appears to be focused on keeping the Lower Orders in their home parishes once more,twee calls to Staycation and upselling the attractions of places we already have prior experience of.

    There is a definite sense of superiority and "Dieu et mon Droit" about some of the players in this production.

    Like you,I & my family do our small bit to follow the rules as they emerge,yet I see my dutiful actions becoming ever more expensive,as in Bin Collection,Electricity,Gas,Petrol, all of which have never been more ecological in general use.

    Humanity is based on,and benefits from, Curiousity and the willingness to travel to explore the World we inhabit...long may that continue.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,525 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    We get to vote for politicians at the local, national and EU level at least every 5 years.

    The Greens are the only ones who give this topic any serious consideration, and they get pilloried for doing so.

    FFS/FG/Labour/PBP/SF, stand aside and point at the Greens and accuse them of raising taxes without providing any alternative to the fundamental problem and then watch the public rip the Greens to pieces on that basis. Such as happens on this platform.

    If the public showed an interest in fixing the problem, we'd get the politicians who then delivered in this direction but this problem is so big and each person so small that many people convince themselves that there is nothing they need to change personally and that others need to come up with pain free solutions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The Greens under Eamon Ryan are little different to the other parties that you have mentioned. They prioritise tax like the rest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    "Islands that could block migration"........😲...WTF....did I just read that ?

    The very folks that are lobbying for a return to the outside toilet,and coarse woven geansái's are usually to be found in the vanguard of demonstrations against Direct Provision,Repatriation or any attempt to deviate from the 200,000 new arrivals per anum once espoused by Mary Harney as being a good thing for l'il ole Ireland.

    With sizeable chunks of indigenous North Africa very definitely indicating their preference for the more bohemian European lifestyle,I wish Britain & Ireland well in their attempts to cope with the New World Order (Post Apocalypse).


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    Again it comes down to money, but truth be told money could be worth nothing in years to come. What good is money when you've nothing worthwhile to spend it on.

    Think you gave some good suggestions a few posts back, many of which are negligible in terms of cost in the grand scheme of things. If I was to put in succinctly I'd say that realistically we need to pay the carbon cost associated of our choices. We need to stop subsidizing industries which follow bad practices and start subsidizing those which follow proper ones.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Yet,Ireland largely ignores the single greatest source of renewable,readily available energy on the Planet,our sea's.

    Ireland really should have been putting resources into Current Generated electricity for the past few years,by surveying and ientifying undersea sites for generators which could be connected into our National Grid.

    Sadly,we followed the masses along the windpower road,which although definitely a niche methodology,simply cannot deliver the reliability required by a modern consumerist society....unless of course,we rediscover the benefits of tallow....?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I concur.....

    It was the "people like you" bit that decided me 🙄


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Green hydrogen is the answer to wind power intermittency.

    Build a large amount of excess generation of wind.

    use excess to make green hydrogen via electrolysis.

    when wind is not meeting demand, convert green hydrogen back into electricity.

    you can also use G.H in gas turbines to lower the percentage of natural gas needed.

    GH also has uses in the HGV and boat/ship/tanker market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    How many Chinese will you kill,if You Kill their economy.

    Do you perceive the ordinary Chinese person as disposable if that leads to your clean economic rebirth ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    But,governments ARE doing things about saving the environment,not as much as You want,but then these Governments also have to do other stuff,like providing Healthcare,Pensions,Electricity,gas and other fripperies in demand from their electorates.

    Take a look at photo's and video clips of Dublin in the rare oul times,see the smoke bellowing out of exhausts and from cyclists mouths,look at the filith of the streets and the still occupied tenement buildings devoid of "facilities",or does that in some way not reflect progress ?

    In real terms we Irish have never had it better,and long may it continue.

    We are all only a Euromillion win away from that Business Jet ourselves.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Picking up a lot of this from the hard extinction rebellion types, some bordering on the s#### you'd expect from Gemma and her kind



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Ah come on .....You started the thread in a seemingly open discussive manner,but when your POV was'nt universally shared you now want to expel the contrarians ?

    That's the type of activity which destroys civilizations with far more success than CO2...🙄


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Midnight Oil's Beds are Burning is over 30 years old, decent song but the sentiment us wearing thin, maybe someone should send the IPCC some new tunes,



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Would this be 100% of ALL Scientists,everywhere ?

    It's like the TV adverts suggesting that 95% of Women prefer a certain skin cream....with,in VERY small type at the butt end of the clip,the revelation of the sample size 95% of 85 women polled.

    Your point regarding the Scientific consensus is valid,even though it is only very recently that Scientists,like ourselves,had any real access to mass instant communication via the Internet.

    A Scientist of the 16th century stood a far greater chance of being burned at the stake,than of ever meeting another Scientist !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,525 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What do you think is in the end game if we, as a planet, stay on our current trajectory of unsustainable practices?

    Every country, not just the Chinese need to consider the implications of not just being driven by sales/profit/growth as we have been for 50 years.



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