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Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?

2456716

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 474 ✭✭ax530


    Government s measure success by consumers spending... The more stuff people buying the better, no money to be made from a small self sufficient community which must embrace biodiversity to survive.

    The aim of world markets is supplies to pass through as many hands, factories points of payments and tax as possible. This ended up with greater supply, choice, lower standard produce and money creation. On the other hand it also damages environment and health.

    Carbon taxes will not help. Amazon building huge windfarm in one area to counteract the damage a data center has done somewhere else will create carbon neutral, jobs, wealth but end of day won't help environment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭jackboy


    We don’t need new technologies, we have a proven system for carbon capture. Protect and restore habitats and the carbon will be captured. Inventing machines to pull carbon out of the air is madness.

    Also, sorting out the carbon content of the atmosphere without tackling reduction of habitats, pollution and the excessive population, still means the planet will be destroyed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing



    I think the collapse of the gulf stream would have an impact on their climate as well, possibly making it even colder. So in reality, who knows how harsh our winters would become.

    But to your second point I would love if we had winters similar to North East America. I travel to ski and generally enjoy proper winters, similar to how most of us travel to enjoy decent summer weather. Our damp miserable winters are awful imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    On the carbon front I just hope we can find some chemical process that can lock it away or precipate it to the bottom of the ocean without having a pile of unintended side effects or taking a pile of energy itself. I don't think a net zero world is possible without carbon capture since we are so dependent on it.

    It looks like we will be able to decarbonise electricity generation pretty quickly and a lot of transport also but it is harder to see how we'll get around some of the other sectors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    We don't even tax aviation fuel, which is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    No. Im not worried. I never tend to worry much about things I can do next to nothing about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Well I agree a bit with your perfect climate. I wish we had a few more autumnal weeks, a few genuinely wintery weeks with dry cold and a drier summer. The constant gloom here and difficulty planning outdoor hobbies is a bit depressing at time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Which would just increase airfares for us plebs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    The Guardian reported this week that the collapse of the Gulf Stream may be imminent, not something that's far off in the future. Results would be disastrous.


    When it comes to taking action to fight against climate change, waiting for governments to act is not an option. Every personal contribution, however small, is important. Even if it annoys your neighbours, like this:




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  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    If I could tax the hell out of private jet use and taking helicopter trips to get to the golf course I would.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Unfortunately almost every measure runs straight into this issue that the wealthiest will be proportionately the least impacted which is quite unfair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Yeah but there is no way of fixing things without being inconvenienced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So tax them more, corporations and billionaires.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    It matters in that climate change, weather whatever you want to call it isn't really anything other than a cashcow for the usual suspects, everyone from the Goldman Sachs to the Kinahans are buying windfarms , hand wringing about flooding but not allowing dredging of rivers in flood areas, moaning about sea levels but refusing to fund sea walls, telling people to sort their rubbish only for them to see the bins all going in the same truck, Green movement have fallen into the same category as the charity industry now, just a bunch of scammers trying to take people's hard earned cash



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So how do you think we should tackle climate change and habitat destruction, despite all these con artists?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    It would prompt the airlines and closed shop aircraft industry to innovate. Its time we reevaluated those whacky designs and once again have Zeppelins and maybe even Ekranoplans.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Less flight routes and more high speed rail maybe



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    Is it a concern - yes. Will I lose sleep over it - no.

    I'm sure it will get a lot worse before it will get better but I won't rule out human ingenuity getting to grips with it in a fashion that does not require us all going back to the middle ages while the high and mighty get to lecture us on what we should do but still jet around the world (to climate change conferences and so on).

    I think this is the biggest problem at the minute - the various eco warriors and tree huggers have no answers other than saying "stop doing it" to ordinary people while at the same time opposing sensible options like nuclear power. This will never fly. The great majority of people simply will not accept a significant reduction in standard of living.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Nuclear power is not a realistic option in Ireland, let's be serious, they take decades to plan and build, we can't even build a hospital, or a cycle lane.

    A reduction of standard of living is coming one way or another that's the thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    People need to see stuff being done with all the extra taxes being collected , forestry planting is at its lowest ever, windfarms need to be community owned with the profits going back into the locality, as it stands its just a money laundry for criminality



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  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Nuclear power isn't really a sensible option any longer. It is insanely expensive and slow to build a nuclear plant (look at Hinckley Point C) for example. I think it is one of the more expensive means of generating electrical energy now. I'm not a knee jerk anti nuclear person either and used think it was going to be essential.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Good points re seeing where the taxes go. Never heard of criminality in the industry though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    I'm genuinely interested about the comments about windfarms and laundering money. Could someone PM me the name of a windfarm or windfarm company they think is dodgy. I'd never heard this before



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I am concerned about the habitat destruction of the Amazon, but there just is nothing someone living in Ireland can do about it. I am concerned about the discharge of plastics into the oceans, but it's mostly via rivers in Asia/India, and a couple in Africa, so nothing can be done about it. I am extremely concerned by overfishing of the oceans, but again, nothing can be done about it as there is too much financial and social pressure for it to continue, so it's a lost cause.

    I am not even slightly concerned by CO2 or global warming, but even if I were, fecking around with EV and solar panel toys in Ireland is less than meaningless in the face of China's building coal fired power stations as fast as European car makers are being in chasing those EV dollars.

    If you are in Ireland, there is nothing you can do, and nothing you do can make the slightest difference.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m more concerned about pollution and overpopulation and rampant consumerism. I don’t see our current ways as sustainable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Ireland and the EU are putting plenty of plastic into the seas, and powering Chinese coal factories by importing all the stuff they create



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    How much of ocean plastics come from the EU? Put a number on it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I dont know, but I've done beach clean ups in Dublin and it ain't pretty. There is a never ending stream of rubbish going into the Irish sea. We also were exporting all our plastic recycleables to Asia until recently, not sure about now. God knows what happened to the plastic once it got there.

    I've seen awful stuff in Spain too with plastic in the sea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    You made a claim about the source first so you should provide evidence of that first I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    I'm not sure the cost argument can be just hand waved away. Yes it's expensive per unit of electricity generated but not by wide margins. It also doesn't involve destroying the landscape with piles of windfarms everywhere and has other advantages such as not depending on the sun being out or the wind being brisk enough.

    Also the cost of phasing it out in Germany:

    “The phase-out resulted in more than 1,100 additional deaths per year from increased concentrations of SO2, NOx, and (particulate matter),”

    Edit: Srsly. Ordinary bbcode doesn't work here anymore? ffs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    90% of plastic polluting our oceans comes from just 10 rivers

    By analyzing the waste found in the rivers and surrounding landscape, researchers were able to estimate that just 10 river systems carry 90% of the plastic that ends up in the ocean.

    Eight of them are in Asia: the Yangtze; Indus; Yellow; Hai He; Ganges; Pearl; Amur; Mekong; and two in Africa – the Nile and the Niger.


    You are welcome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Oh I'm not totally against it. I thought it was silly to close it in Germany and just increase dependence on russian gas. If we had a few nuclear plants here I wouldn't be rushing to close them prematurely.



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A thread for the virtue signallers.


    "I'm doing my bit with my electric car, with my bike, with my olive soap!"


    The climate is changing, always has been. Humans are part of the ecology like everything. If humans wiped them selfs out the planet will still be here, will be perfect and ok.

    No one really cares about the planet, only care about their stuff and comforts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Thanks for the link. What portion of the plastics in Asia are from exported European "recycling" I wonder? Your headline figures seem to indicate that c. 20% by weight of plastic is in the north Atlantic which would seem to indicate we contribute more than our fair share by population.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Who was "virtue signalling"? I just said palm oil can be avoided by using a particular type of soap instead of shampoo. Sorry.



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Giving government more tax money is a bizarre solution



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    Not in the slightest concerned. Don't believe in it. A scam to bring in more levies and taxes.

    However I sort of wish it is true. I think any society that gives regular air time to people like Paul Murphy deserves to be wiped out. The way culture is progressing in Ireland, with the BLM and the trans stuff and the end direct provision and the kow towing to Covid pseudoscience, the end of humanity would be no bad thing. I welcome it. We had a nice thing going until maybe 2012 and then we let the idiots play with it. Letting absolute headers like Brid Smith and Ruth Coppinger get elected. Giving loons like Greta Thunberg a billing. The rot set in when we allowed vehicles like Twitter to give a tiny minority of idiots a platform to somehow dictate societal and national discourse.

    So yes, if things keep declining at the rate they have in the last 5 years, the end of our world would be no great loss. Can't even have a pint in this country without permission from the state by way of a QR code, so what is the point in continuing on. At no stage has the government confirmed that life will entirely return to the pre covid normal.


    TLDR- I'll burn my plastic out the back if it helps accelerate this as if society declines at the rate it has since 2014 it isn't remotely worth saving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    It would raise prices and people would fly less. I know you don't agree, but sacrifices would need to be made by all, and yes the rich wouldnt be affected as much but unless we go full blown Communist that will always be the way.

    Anyway you dont care, got it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭crooked cockney villain


    To call them non issues would be giving them too much credit, yet for some reason they dominate our national media discourse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You're doing it to yourself, I know nothing about either cause really, much like your attitude to the subjects being discussed here.

    Maybe avoid things about trans and blm if it upsets you so much you want mankind to end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Some “plebs” only respond to financial levy’s. I’ve no doubt that some are taking advantage of a greener agenda (including governments) , the bigger issue is that humanity has to be forced into common sense by hitting their pockets.

    If our climate changes dramatically over the decades we just don’t know the true impact. You talk of Atlantic changed as if that’s the worst that can happen, when you don’t know anymore then anybody what the long term effects might be. That’s not the only threat either, a lot of our oxygen comes from the oceans , how will more gases in environment affect our seas?

    ”The earth goes through different cycles, heats and cools naturally” is not addressing the incalculable damage that man made actions are causing. Since it seems humanity has never changed it’s environment so much in the past we have no benchmark or guaranteed models that can say with relative accuracy how things may change.


    another issue is the vested interest groups who are using their influence to obfuscate fidelity. Some groups and people want to suit themselves. You don’t have to be “scared for your life” or “living in constant fear” to objectively see the madness in putting your head in the sand and presuming it will all work out because that is what you choose to believe.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭blackwave


    The Irish independent had an article on him recently and was a interesting read once it got over the unnecessary plamasing his appearance and discussed what he did on the farm and it's a bit more in-depth. Even Jeremy Clarkson has devoted a part of his farm to re-wilding on his Amazon show and it was a good watch. Hope more farmers devote some of their land to re-wilding as the death of insect species in recent years is scary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    We were sending used plastic to China, paying them to take it, word is that it didn't always manage to get there,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Saw a Joanna Lumley travel show about Haiti,

    Just dumping plastic on the beach,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Not really, people are self interested assh0les for the most part so it's inevitable that we will destroy ourselves


    I have no faith in our ability to fend off climate change



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Absolutely we dont know the full extent any changes would have. Totally agree. The gulf stream collapsing could usher in a new ice age for all I know.

    As I've said before, the outcome of a sudden dramatic climatic change within my lifetime is something I'm happy to accept/face.

    I enjoy seeing the world and do not wish to sacrifice my ability to fly relatively cheaply to "potentially" reduce MMCC.

    I don't litter (intentionally) I've no idea what happens to the contents of my bins when they're collected. I cycled a few days a week when I was in the office. I buy local. I help clean my local park once a month and if at all possible I will switch to green energies when they're fully green and it doesn't cripple me financially.

    But that's about as far as I'm willing to go personally and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it. To slightly mis-quote Drago, if we die, we die.



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