Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732288#Comment_117732288

But they are massively damaging to the environment. Does that not matter as long as it is not nuclear?

Do you also accept that you need redundancy and back up from other forms of energy generation for when wind/solar don't produce what is required?

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732228#Comment_117732228

Will never happen though will it. People ain't changing. It will be too late by then. But some bonkers ideas from parties too don't help. Greens are utter hypocritical for example.

Heraclius

A single nuclear plant would be the single most expensive thing our state would have built in recent years. If you want to provide an insurance policy against no wind blowing then you really need two nuclear plants in case some serious maintenance issue had the first one out of service when it is needed.

You seem to be mistaking me for someone who has an ideological opposition to nuclear which I don't. I have an economic opposition to it because it would be a waste of taxpayers money to build in Ireland.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732400#Comment_117732400

But expensive and highly inefficient hydrogen generation would be a good thing to spend money on? Or vast warehouses of toxic batteries to store energy for the days when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine? Sorry but those don't sound like particularly good alternatives either.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732430#Comment_117732430

But we are in the realm of dealing with least bad. There's no chance of us building a nuclear plant in 10 years or probably even 20 because of the level of complexity, cost, public opposition and legal challenges there would be. If we did build one it would definitely go vastly over budget since no Irish agency would have experience building one.

If we do I'd ideally like it to be in Sandymount but I'd expect the odd objection.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732460#Comment_117732460

We're not going to have warehouses full of thousands of tonnes of batteries either. Natural gas generation is the cleanest fossil fuel we have and the most reliable. It must be part of the conversation but the environmentalists lose their minds over it. Wind and solar are part of the solution but we have to have backup redundancy for those and not just a few acres of batteries will do.

As I mentioned earlier our own government are bereft of ideas. Apart from hiking up the Carbon Tax annually there's very little in the way of climate action initiatives in this country. We have no large scale public transport project to take cars off the road being built in this country since the last Luas update in 2017 - none. Meanwhile we have roads projects going ahead all over the country. If the government are clearly not too concerned about the urgency of all this - why should the average punter?

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732481#Comment_117732481

I don't disagree with leaving gas burning power plants on line longer than oil or coal burning.

Some road projects are necessary but there needs to be a lot of hard questions asked about each new project from now on. I think the current government has committed to shifting funding towards public transport (and walking + cycling infrastructure). There is no easy option ahead unfortunately. Even if we spend more on public transport we will still have to spend on maintaining existing roads.

Triangle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722592#Comment_117722592

Jackboy, your tinfoil hat fell off. This conspiracy theory about greens being part of a cult.... Lol

I take it you've seen this yourself?

Man i'd love to go for a pint with you, id imagine it'd be hilarious.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732551#Comment_117732551

They are in power over a year now and still no shovels in the ground for any major public transport initiatives while numerous roads projects have commenced. Of course we need roads but they aren't going to help the situation - more roads = more cars. Plenty of glossy brochures and plans about public transport but no action so far. Also painting a few lines on the road and calling it "cycling infrastructure" is 100% greenwashing and isn't going to lead to mass adoption or change.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732577#Comment_117732577

I'm not disagreeing with you on most of that. It just isn't reasonable to expect any infrastructure project in Ireland to start within one year though - there are challenges to every development. If they did rush something they'd probably get mannixed.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732599#Comment_117732599

Previous governments sat on their arse also and did nothing to progress any of the things that could have been pushed forward like Metro / BusConnects / proper cycling infrastructure etc. Let's even look at Electric vehicles. For many years anyone can get a grant towards the cost of an EV - they aren't overly environmentally friendly and have a significant carbon footprint in their production but you can't get a grant at all for an electric bike in Ireland. And only last year were they added to the bike to work scheme which is only useful for those in employment and only if your company takes part in the scheme. Students, unemployed, self employed or anyone working for a company not participating can't apply. We have it very much upside down in Ireland and it's ingrained across society and government circles.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732059#Comment_117732059

yes, and not growing due to increasing birth rates here.

Greens are deluded... they are great at pointing out the problem but fûcking useless at inventing solutions.

the Green Party do blame the working man and woman, the average Joe, but when it comes to being critical of the main causes and instigators of climate change, which are perpetuated by in the main...BIG BUSINESS... they are largely silent....

happy to lecture us and belittle us for driving a car 10 km round trip to work every day but ignoring the factory and farms that you pass that contribute multiple times more to climate change and indeed pollution.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732400#Comment_117732400

The modular factory built small nukes proposed by Rolls Royce would be suitable and nothing like as expensive as the old one-offs.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/small-modular-reactors.aspx#section-why-smrs

Physeter

All of the world's problems can be solved in a garden - Geoff Lawton

Not entirely true but if more people lived by this sentiment we'd be in a much better position for localized resilience to climate change.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732557#Comment_117732557

I take it you think it's great for the country that it's wall to wall diesels with the Greens having successfully driven out all the petrol powered vehicles? This of course being the greatest succcess story of the Greens deepp thinking policies?

They are proven incompetent cretins.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoweGN8cm5g

I don't care if they tear down trees

I don't feel the hotter breeze

Sink in dust in dying seas

And I don't care at all

I don't care if the Third World fries

It's hotter there I'm not surprised

Baby I can watch whole nations die

And I don't care at all

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732551#Comment_117732551

There will have to be even greater spending on road maintainance in the future as the shift to EVs becomes more significant, as the things weigh a lot more than ICE powered cars and so will do significantly more damage to roads as the relationship to weight isn't linear, it's a fourth power. Currently 10% of government revenue comes from taxes and charges on ICE vehicles. I can't see how EV subsidies can be afforded much longer given this revenue stream will decline while road maintainance costs will increase, not to mention costs in facillitating EV infrastructure, including a significant amount of new power generation and transmission lines being required.. I suppose we can expect a VAT rate of 30% to be on the cards.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117720030#Comment_117720030

That’s nice of them. Didn’t think clontarf would be flush with block layers

TXPTGR1

Looking forward to the preaching from Obama and his birthday party guests who flew in on private jets about what the little people need to give up to avert disaster.

until the big guys start showing that they are making sacrifices themselves most people will feel able to ignore this. I’m not expecting leadership to be shown on this issue from western political elites therefore we are fucked

DrumSteve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732460#Comment_117732460

A nuclear plant in Sandymount and you expect only the odd objection...

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732901#Comment_117732901

Perhaps I should have put in an emoji. I assumed people would guess I was being light hearted.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117732481#Comment_117732481

Methane is a cleaner GHG than say CO2 but only if 100% if it is burned. If as little as something like 3% escapes into the atmosphere its actually worse than CO2. It doesn't last as long as CO2 in the atmosphere but its effects are worse in the short term.

dublin49

I have said earlier in this thread that Covid has demonstrated when Governments act in best interest of all and supports are given to the most disadvantaged the general public will accept almost any measure.Pubs ,Gyms ,Airports all shut for more than a year ,practically unbelieveable,the same social cohesion will be required with knobs on for us to make the required changes to our way of life but it would appear we have no choice.I might be aggrieved by the imposition of perceived draconian measures ,but if the roof blows off my house or I end up under water my perspective wont be long about changing. So we all would accept the measures required if we could just be 100% sure it will be a **** show without them ,so it comes down to trust and credibility.

scamalert

usual yearly reminder world is turning to **** and solution, tax avg joe who has fck all to do with larger issue where he gets **** final product that wont last a year before its outdated and pushed to sure buy a new one, and dump the old one, because its greener, is same like pissing in a hollow bucket while expecting for it to turn into rainwater.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117730667#Comment_117730667

I have to say RV, fairplay to you for standing on that soapbox and sticking your head above the parapet to spout that nonsense. Not really sure what any of it means but its a serious gripe you've got going there.

Not entirely sure where the hatred of greens or green ideals comes from. With respect to the greens in Ireland, they've only really done two things of note.

• Bike to Work scheme, generally seen as positive even though its not used for its original purpose.
• Tax incentives on diesels, bad but then again not just the greens were mislead by car companies the world over by falsified emission results.

Is there something I'm missing? Have they done anything else? Just so I can figure out where the deep-rooted hatred comes from?

If its a green agenda in general, I'd still like to know what the issue is really. The IPCC (an independent body of expert volunteers) have released a report detailing our part in this. They don't conduct their own research. They compile and collate reports and data from years of studies to form their opinions. They aren't able to correlate the effects of a single car journey on one side of the world to a flood/drought elsewhere. To expect this sort of detail is nonsense tbh. They can only look at historical trends and make an adjudication based on that. And like all scientific processes they have to revisit and revise predictions based on the latest data. What do they have in it for themselves? To keep themselves in jobs? Really?

It really seems like people miss the point of this once its reported in media, the number one upvoted comment is some sort of shite about taxes. Ireland has since the 80s spent ~3bn on flood relief, Europe in the region of ~400bn. Do you know what mitigates this? Not building on flood planes (for obvious reasons), planting trees upstream of rivers (as they trap water and stop topsoil being washed into rivers), not dredging rivers increasing waterflow, also related to the above point.

Will this solve all our problems? Probably not but it would go a long way and costs a grand total of **** all. It'd probably be a hell of a lot cheaper than retroactively reacting to problems which is all we seem to be able to do.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733575#Comment_117733575

Irish Green party are a shower of tossers who 20 years ago would've held some rank in the RCC, if you'd read my posts I've said drainage, sea walls and forrestation, I'd even go as far as 10acres of trees for every wind turbine,

What gets me is the backwards viewpoint, puritanical fanaticism from narrow-minded and totally lacking in social intellect( not calling them stupid ,just clueless about how society works) eco-loopers

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733858#Comment_117733858

Like them or loath them, they are the only party who tried to have a meaningful conversation about the reality of what is happening our natural environment and they receive mostly vitriolic abuse for doing so.

FG, supported by FF signed Ireland up to the Paris Accord, and even as late as the last General Election, advocating for any measures to even move towards or commitments in that agreement were left to the Greens to propose and then FF/FG collectively beat the sh*t out of them for doing so.

The earth is in trouble, the reasons for this cannot be fixed without disruption. Ireland should not try to abdicate responsibility just because of our size or industry focus.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733934#Comment_117733934

What do you suggest we do? I have yet to see any concrete suggestions of what we in Ireland can and should do. Just a load of people saying we need to do something.

RandomViewer

Everything has to be cost neutral, people won't stand for being f###ed over because of what ifs and maybes, do I need to post Ryan's defence of wee Willie to prove he's a liar?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733858#Comment_117733858

Yeah I get it, there's hatred. Other than saying that, you still haven't said why. Honestly I don't even know why mention the greens cause from what I can see they've been completely and totally ineffectual, and I'd go so far as to say worldwide rather than just here. Like I've said they've had two "green" policies implemented, one good, one bad (even though still a lot of people benefited from it). Other than that they've done absolutely nothing of note. Honestly it's like people who hate Sinn Fein even though they've never actually done anything.... "oh well its what they would do....."

Regarding ACTUAL policy makers, i.e. the one who have actually implemented things which effect us on a day to day basis. They might have an idea as you put it as to how society works, but they've **** all idea how natural processes work. They are ecologically clueless. Pursuing agricultural and economical policies which are completely at odd with what we should be doing.

You don't have to be an eco-looper to know that:

• Policies allowing overfishing are destroying the seas and the very source of oxygen we breathe, don't even mind the Amazon.
• Agricultural subsides actively try and destroy the land, remove the topsoil, create nitrogen runoff and in the case of the US, spread pesticides with origins in the the gassing of Jews in WW2.
• Policies that in this day in age we STILL purchase items in single use plastic that as soon as its bought is destined for landfill.
• The opening of coal powered power plants even though we should be phasing them out.

are all completely insane. I mean I could go on... But still the real tossers are ones who've actually done nothing? Do you really think your ire is directed in the right place?