Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734580#Comment_117734580

Very expensive and very inefficient. You lose a huge amount of the electricity you initially generated by firstly doing electrolysis (which is very energy intensive) and then converting the hydrogen back into electricity.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117728916#Comment_117728916

You bet there is !

Take a look at the bogeyman Col Gadaffi and his Bis Scale plans for irrigating his desert country....

https://www.water-technology.net/projects/gmr/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River

https://theecologist.org/2015/may/14/war-crime-nato-deliberately-destroyed-libyas-water-infrastructure

However,Gadaffi's removal was necessary for the People of Libya to thrive & prosper in a new free environment.......😕

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734733#Comment_117734733

Doesn’t matter if it’s excess as I stated.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734628#Comment_117734628

Photos of Dublin in the 50s and 60s had loads of men and women cycling around the city centre, just normal people, and not traffic choked streets, there's plenty of footage. It's way worse now for pedestrians and cyclists when it comes to exhausts spewing fumes down your throat.

We missed a trick by focusing on private cars and building society around them, that's why we don't have great public transport, and outside of Dublin it's almost non existent. Trying to change that now is very difficult because any restriction of cars goes against the culture we've created in the last decades and there's murder.

I don't really know how to measure progress, GDP is bullsh*t, but it seems to be all our leaders care about. Worldwide we need to find some kind of equilibrium with nature, and some way of most people having a decent standard of living without raping the planet.

Unless aliens come down or The Enterprise intervenes like they do in The Next Generation sometimes when a planet's on the brink, the future is war torn and bleak.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734950#Comment_117734950

Define “excess”.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734580#Comment_117734580

That is bonkers - it might work, emphasis might, in Spain or North Africa with solar, but can’t work here, given the cost of offshore in the Atlantic.

Anyway, electrolysers don’t operate stop-start, they need to be run continuously.

Build a battery - build a f@cking battery. Great idea. Next.

The big pushers of hydrogen are the oil and gas companies - I have doubts about BEV for everything but all car companies are giving hydrogen a miss (Toyota not quite yet) and even the truck companies are more BEV than hydrogen.

oh yeah, build a battery. Why has nobody anywhere built a battery (of meaningful scale) to store excess electricity? I would not waste rare renewable on hydrogen. German coal use for electricity generation is up 37% this year - should renewables not be used to offset this rather than “hydrogen”?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734803#Comment_117734803

Yes, I know. They did the same thing in Serbia over Kosovo..massive destruction of infrastructure, which affected the civil population. and is against the Geneva Conventions. As they say, all is fair in love and war...and all sides in a conflict will target Hospitals, Water infracture etc. Khadaffi was not the big bad bogeyman he was portrayed by the media.. (and neither was he a Saint.)...but his biggest crime was wanting to have an alternative world currency. He had to go.

Cilldara_2000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117734712#Comment_117734712

The link I posted set out this:

"The consensus among research scientists on anthropogenic global warming has grown to 100%, based on a review of 11,602 peer-reviewed articles on “climate change” and “global warming” published in the first 7 months of 2019."

100% of 11,602 articles is a fair whack IMO.

riclad

We have maybe 5 years left to change our use of oil diesel coal before climate change becomes unstoppable, eg stop all fracking , oil exploration, use of coal mining switch to solar power wind power etc

Will this happen its unlikely how can we force country's like Russia Iran Turkey China to change their whole energy output look at USA the most popular cars and trucks are large wasteful in terms of using oil and petrol. one example the latest consoles Xbox ps5 use way more energy than an older model ps3, xbox360 big corporations are allowed to pollute rivers with chemicals and maybe pay a small fine. buildings are not even being designed to use recycled materials phones are designed to last 2 years and then buy a new one we have Western country's Russia China the middle east getting them to agree to anything is almost impossible country's like saudia Arabia are run by cronyism certain prince's get contracts and political power etc China is the major next superpower so ending billions on weapons planes tanks rockets it'll probably invade Taiwan at some point

Saving the planet us not its first priority we should be spending billions on building safe nuclear reactors one example the winter crisis in Texas cost billions because there's no regulations to force power company's to winterize the power network if we look at the tech we have now solar power is cheaper than coal if company's who use coal did not get tax breaks

The problem is in 10 years times there'll be rising sea levels mega fires and droughts and it, ll be too late to change our energy use some places will become unliveable due to lack of water and rising temperature

It's hard to live and work in places where its 100 degrees plus

Iran is one example now due to climate change and bad management its running out of water due to economic sanctions it will be very hard to build a whole new water infrastructure

Does our education system even adress green issues or climate change at all?

Or do we spend more resources on teaching Irish which maybe a few per cent of pupils speak after they leave school Politicans think maybe 2 to 3 years ahead most Politicans do not think 5 to 10 years ahead

Eg if we do not adress climate change we will be facing wars and serous conflict over acess to water and basic resources I can see no reason to be optimistic America can basically print money and they have only started to adress climate change most small country's are just trying to survive the pandemic and rebuild the economy

There's hope in that we can plant more trees and build tech devices to capture carbon but will that happen before it's too late

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736054#Comment_117736054

Did you read the article (or the paper)? It isn't quite the positive you think - just less negative.

Here's the last two paragraphs:

"The vegetation cooling effect is large from the energy dissipation perspective, but only about 10%-20% compared to the pace of global warming. The cooling effect from greening is less significant in tropical forests with high leaf areas.

“This is a warning sign about climate change. We should be cautious that the rainforests, which are at the forefront of the fight against global warming, are reaching the limits of their capacity to absorb carbon and cool the surface.” commented Dr. Rama Nemani, from NASA’s Ames Research Center

Roger_007

I sometimes wonder how much all these people who want to ‘save’ the planet have considered the consequences of what they are advocating. They tend to advocate policies that are contradictory to each other.

They want to restore the forests which have been cleared and the wetlands which have been drained and the wild areas that have been cultivated. They want to ban the use of artificial fertilisers and herbicides and insecticides. Where do they think that all the food is going to be grown to feed an ever increasing world population?

They want to to have a basic standard of infrastructure for all the people in the world, houses, schools, hospitals, roads and railways; yet they want to curtail the production of cement which they claim is one of the chief culprits in global warming.

They ignore entirely the fundamental problem at the root of all the world’s environmental issues and that is the burgeoning human population.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737115#Comment_117737115

Well a lot of forests have been cleared for animal feed or animals, we don't need to eat as many as we do, so I guess we have to find a balance and grow whatever food takes up the least space and does the least amount of polluting damage.

The population isn't going to be controlled any time soon, so that's an issue too, feeding the population in the most effective way is what is required.

Weather could start to F up our current agricultural output here in Ireland very soon, are there any contingency plans in place? We currently focus on beef and dairy but what if the means to produce it start to go awry in the coming years, more flooding, more droughts, less grass etc. Sh*t could get real very quickly.

Dyr

I've had a lifetime of predictions of eco disaster none of which came to pass

If the climate lobby were gamblers they'd all be in the poorhouse.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737115#Comment_117737115

From what I've seen the only form of agriculture that's in anyway sustainable is a regenerative one, something along the lines of permaculture which uses natural processes to capture rainfall and keep it in the soil, using nitrogen fixing plants or green manure and environmentally friendly ways of eliminating the effects of pests. Traditional industrial farming has proven itself to be busted flush. Its requiring more and more inputs for less and less outputs. There isn't really much point pursing a system which can provide for 10 billion people for 20-30 years. There are plenty of examples where people have turned around completely inhospitable places into once again productive land. See the SEKEM project in the Egypt, the Loess Plateau in China. It took major persuasion to convince people that they needed to plant their fertile soil with trees etc but its completely transformed the area. Topsoil was retained, vegetation increased, the land became more productive and their incomes doubled.

Regarding concrete/cement. I don't think anyone would suggest completely getting rid of it, maybe some would. But the material has no water absorption properties (not that you'd want it) so is a disaster with heavy rainfall. It absorbs heat in places with high temperatures, this makes places urban areas much more uncomfortable to live. I don't think that we should not use it but clearly it should be used in a smarter way. Incorporate it as one of these cities of the future we constantly see, like Singapore. I've seen images lately of two streets in the same city on the same day, one with trees/vegetation lining it, the other without and in many cases there is a 5-10°C difference between the two. One is eminently livable, the other is not.

Thelonious Monk

And our solution to flooding is pouring concrete around our rivers, yikes

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737972#Comment_117737972

Hole in the ozone was the big one I remember, we'll be sunburned to death by 1992,

Different agriculture suits different climates. If there is less grass there will be less rain and ireland will be more suitable for horticulture.

At present the majority of Ireland is very suitable for ruminants ideally cattle /cows / goats / sheep due to grass growth. It does not suit horticulture so much due to fungus/dampness and temperature.

Agricultire adapts to climate.

I do see positive changes but it is impossible to turn back time. Technology associated with convenience doesn’t go away. People tend to look for more technology to solve this.

A lot of technology/progress has huge environmental consequences

Flushing toilet

Combustion engine

Internet

Slurry Tanks

Electricity

Plastic Packaging

Burning of coal/gas/oil

Factory procressed food

Goods made in factories

etc / etc

My ethos is do what you can i.e.

Vote wisely

Buy land if you can afford it

Have a composting toilet

Get solar panels

Burn wood for heating

Buy organic food

Grow your own or get involved in a community garden

Keep hens

Keep livestock regenerativly or buy organic meat /dairy

Buy as much food as possible from Ireland in season

Travel by train or ferry or bus

Have an electric car

Buy second hand clothes or only what you need

Plant fruit trees and bushes

Limit your car journeys

Buy packaging free if possible

Have as few as possible electrical devices

Buy energy from a green supplier if possible.

Plant trees

Use eco friendly cleaning products.

Be involved in your local community for a local social life / to improve it.

Do I do all of the above ? No but they’re things to aim for and I have achieved a few.

Don’t take life too seriously. Do what you can and try to encourage people. I find it works better than doom.

Living requires resources. This is a fact.

Am I worried about impending doom? No but I am concerned about the environment and I try to do my best. Life is also pretty damn good in Ireland at the moment in my opinion.

no famine and no war - ☺️

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117738801#Comment_117738801

Didn't we fix that by cutting out on the CFCs?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56014092

We took action to eliminate or at least substantially reduce the damage.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739027#Comment_117739027

Half the world ignored it, you can still get CFC aerosols in Asia, F

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739177#Comment_117739177

Like I said, "we took action to eliminate or at least substantially reduce the damage".

Black Swan

Change is a constant. This applies to climate, too. It would appear that humans have been contributing to this change. Out of control population growth is but one human variable among many that affects this change over centuries.

Given that change is a constant, can we guide it? That is one of the questions of this thread. Which in turn can be subdivided into the 5 Ws.

I assume that change is a complex concept, with no simple answers. How many of us want to deal with this complexity on a daily basis?

Boring, pedantic post. Exactly. Wonders if time would be better spent changing the world, or playing a fun old Skyrim game?

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739183#Comment_117739183

But if we'd done nothing would the outcome have been any different, Russia,most of Asia and the Americas aren't going to bother with climate change, we are going to be looked at like silly cnuts running around like Chicken lickin ,crying the Sky is falling

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739224#Comment_117739224

Ireland is part of the EU so we are unlikely to be acting alone. Having a cleaner environment locally and greater energy independence would seem like wins anyway.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117738801#Comment_117738801

Lord rest the polar bears, more of them running around now then when Al Gore was telling us they're fucked, not even aware that they're extinct.

Sadly, the west is going to **** our cost of living under the bus so a bunch of bed wetters can feel like they're making a difference

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739237#Comment_117739237

Not if most of the population can't afford to heat their homes,

DrumSteve

Tbh it seems like, as always, our government is going to **** over the regular Joe soap with a swathe of carbon taxes while doing **** all else to address the issue.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739224#Comment_117739224

I'm no expert on the science compared to many on this thread, so at risk of being corrected by someone who actually knows what they're talking about, I'd guess the answer is Yes - if we'd done nothing, the answer would have been very different.

It's looks at bit like all those heads who decided the whole Y2K think was a huge scam because planes didn't fall out of the sky, despite IT teams having busted their asses for two or three years beforehand to make sure that planes didn't fall out of the sky.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739317#Comment_117739317

Green ministers looking at the accessories list for their new Tesla,

DrumSteve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739331#Comment_117739331

You know I wouldn't mind paying the taxes if I saw a bunch of green initiatives that made sense but we get nothing from them except "Tax the poor“.