Would you be happy for your children to receive covid-19 vaccine

I just took the numbers from the day before my comment, which, when I look back, are not representative (as you point out). It wasn't deliberate cherry picking.

I put the last 16 days numbers in a spreadsheet, as you suggested, and the cases break down 67% in vaccinated individuals, 33% unvaccinated.

• If we assume 90% of population vaccinated it would mean that unvaccinated are 4.4 times more likely to become a case
• If we assume 80% of population vaccinated it would mean unvaccinated are 2 times more likely to become a case.

It is interesting that so many vaccinated are showing up as cases (though presumably a much smaller percentage of vaccinated will progress to severe Covid). What is your conclusion from this?

New report out of the UK today. Suggests that long covid is about 60% less likely in children than it is in adults, and that children over 12 typically take about 40% longer to recover than children under 12.

Pinch of salt perhaps, but it's another study in the catalogue which suggests that 12 years of age is about the cut-off point here, and at the moment there is very little justification in vaccinating primary school children.

I’m hearing many references to communism lately. The exact opposite of communism was 19th century Victorian England, where the liberty of the individual was stressed as being the most important thing. Yet, in 19th century England, vaccination against smallpox was made mandatory.

I’m not quite sure how to respond to your post. There is a depth of feeling in your post which I respect.

I wasn’t comparing Covid to smallpox. Clearly, the mortality rate of smallpox is multiple times higher than Covid’s. I was making a general political point when someone was making reference to the vaccine rollout being a “Communist agenda”.

Im sorry to hear that you know someone who is double vaccinated and is now unwell with Covid. The vaccines are not 100% effective but just look at our current hospitalisation rate against the background of our reopening. That is proof enough that the vaccines are working. If you wonder what might happen if we didn’t have lockdowns and a successful vaccine rollout, you only need to look at states that had very few restrictions or public health measures. In Brazil, in the four months between March and June of this year, there were over half a million excess deaths. That would be equivalent to us having almost 13,000 excess deaths in the same four months. Note we are talking about excess deaths here, so deaths over and above the normal death rate. See https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

Any virus that causes this amount of excess deaths is a virus to be reckoned with. We are lucky to be living in the 21st century, however, and have access to incredible life-saving vaccines that means we are not like our ancestors in the Middle Ages who had to deal with the “plague”.

go on...

Maybe, but nowhere has reached herd immunity yet so we don't know.

The vaccine does significantly decrease transmission, it's not just to protect the vaccinated person.

What on earth has a "communist agenda" got to do with any of this?

We're all quite rightly concerned about getting the balance right between how how many need to be vaccinated to halt transmission, and whether it's necessary, or useful, to vaccinate children, and what the risks are, etc., etc. If you are coming at this question from a political viewpoint I'm not sure your opinion will be of any constructive use to this discussion, and you might find a more appropriate thread for your views elsewhere!!!

Except Susan Michie isn't on Independent SAGE or ISAG.

edit: oh, actually she is on Independent SAGE. There's some dodgy reporting out there, I was misinformed.

This is a key point for me. The fact that there is so much that is unknown about the efficacy of the vaccines. I've read articles where it said previously infected may only need one dose, immune compromised may need 3 doses, immunity is lost and boosters will be required. Why anyone would get their kids vaccinated with so much unknown is beyond me. I understand everyone wants to get back to normal but is wanting to go to the pub / shops a good enough reason to get vaccinated? It feels like most people are getting them for other reasons rather than their health. Personally, it would be so I can travel.