Would you be happy for your children to receive covid-19 vaccine

virginmediapls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696922#Comment_117696922

Especially when they are parenting wrong ! :D

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697406#Comment_117697406

That's never clear until you see what adults kids become and some adults ...

Del Griffith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695584#Comment_117695584

Nice cherry picking.

Here's yesterdays, the vaccinated accounting for a cool 81% of the cases.

Very important to note that as the vaccines are working, we'd also have to assume that the vaccinated infected are likely very mild sniffles and so aren't pro-actively going to get tested. It highly likely to be a higher number of vaccinated infectious walking around in reality, unless you believe that the vaccines aren't working very well and they are symptomatic enough to get tested, or that vaccinated people are regularly doing PCR tests for the craic.

Anyway at a glance it appears on the average day the cases are coming from over +70% vaccinated (if you're arsed, go back over the past month and throw them all in a spreadsheet) and that's just the ones that are getting tested.

Leaving aside twisting the numbers to suit a narrative, can we at least admit that this would indicate that most definitely there remains enough transmission amongst vaccinated for a new strain to develop, ergo using that stance to apply pressure to parents to get them to do what you selfishly want them to do, is a false narrative?

Lumen

@Del Griffith wrote

Leaving aside twisting the numbers to suit a narrative, can we at least admit that this would indicate that most definitely there remains enough transmission amongst vaccinated for a new strain to develop, ergo using that stance to apply pressure to parents to get them to do what you selfishly want them to do, is a false narrative?

The "X is not perfect, so X is pointless" argument has been used quite a lot. It doesn't make much sense. Vaccines reduce number and severity of cases, ergo any number of extra vaccinations reduces the risk of a new variant developing (which I don't think is particularly important given a largely unvaccinated world, but I didn't highlight that concern myself).

Where the threshold arguments do make sense is in zero covid through "herd immunity", i.e. a complete return to normal where any newly introduced cases hit a wall of immunity and don't make it to even a localised outbreak. I don't see many people expressing that hope any more, given that apparently 70% of pop vaxxed isn't enough to squash Delta even in summer, and almost no country appears to be in a rush to vaccinate under 12s despite some slippery-slope fears expressed on this thread.

That said, UAE have just approved Sinopharm for age 3+ after a successful trial including members of the royal family, so maybe they will do us the favour of finding out whether 90%+ is enough (they're currently at 79% with at least one dose, and case numbers around the EU average).

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698170#Comment_117698170

New strains tend to develop where the viral load is very high and prolonged and particularly in immuno-compromised individuals where there is more opportunity to replicate and mutations occur.

Given the vaccines both reduce the viral load and reduce the time taken for a person to clear the viral load it is actually more desirable to get everyone vaccinated when a highly transmissible variant is circulating.

Kermit.de.frog

Yes, of course children should get vaccinated. They don't stay as children forever but crucially they are also among the biggest vectors for disease. At the end of the day the more of the population vaccinated as quickly as possible the quicker society can return to normal.

Some seem to want it both ways - they moan about restrictions and then go on to moan about the population getting vaccinated which is the only route out.

The more the merrier.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698368#Comment_117698368

Viral load is the same for Delta, vs unvaccinated

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698441#Comment_117698441

If you're referring to the Wisconsin data, that's an outlier, hasn't been peer reviewed (AFAIK) and is disputed. Obviously from a population perspective the viral load is lower with a higher rate of vaccination.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697401#Comment_117697401

Particularly towards children and young adults, it has to be said.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698663#Comment_117698663

The paper is here for those that want to read it:

Unvaccinated and vaccinated have similar viral load in communities high in SARS-CoV-2 delta (news-medical.net)

And while viral load was similar in this one study (and the study was only looking at viral load) the time to clear the virus was less in the vaccinated individuals vs. unvaccinated, which means less of an opportunity to transmit.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698702#Comment_117698702

Also important is that these are vaccine breakthrough cases, so they're not comparing vaccinated people with unvaccinated people, they're comparing vaccinated cases with unvaccinated cases. It excludes all the people who were infected but not tested, presumably because they were asymptomatic. (I think!)

There is much discussion on Twitter.

Del Griffith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698275#Comment_117698275

There's no rush for under 12's because it's not approved yet, but it's in the pipeline and they are aiming for September as per links posted earlier in this thread.

As for the good being the enemy of the perfect yes perhaps you have a point - I only brought this up in response to certain statements around it being the big solution that will stop any and all variants coming to kill vaccinated granny by way of those filthy unvaccinated children.

riveratom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696936#Comment_117696936

Janey it's just a phrase clearly, nothing personal against children who do in fairness pick up all sorts of bugs!

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699169#Comment_117699169

It really doesn't read like that, someone clearly doesn't seem to like children.

Luke O'Neill on the radio this morning. Said something along the lines of "100% we could be looking at a normal Christmas. The danger of course, is a new variant of concern emerging" 🤣 🤣 🤣

He talked about children being less of a worry for transmission, but towards the end of the interview he said the goal is for "everyone in the world to be vaccinated". So take that for what you will.

FYI, Luke O'Neill has received funding in the past from Pfizer for studies. I'm not sure if he's still financially connected to them.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696936#Comment_117696936

And how would you describe the situation if when children go back to school that we see outbreaks of the disease in schools.

I am also perplexed by the assumption that it could be discrimination to insist on vaccination to attend school or college lectures. We are lucky in that we have a high uptake of vaccination and it gives us some leeway in not having make such decisions. However society has the right to protect itself. If vaccination levels were low society would have the right to insist on vacination before Education just like you need a COVID cert to fly or to dine indoors

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117695061#Comment_117695061

They are not at risk, they spread Covid much less than adults as so many are asymptomatic, and the vaccine statistically WILL cause more harm to young children than Covid ever will.

This is incorrect.

I won't address the conspiracy nonsense of 'more harm' in detail. Waste of time.

In 2020, there was little data, and no large scale studies, that evaluated infectiousness in children. This is different in 2021. We now know that

• symptomatic disease, severe illness and death is much more rare in children than in grown ups
• children get infected with Covid and spread Covid in roughly identical rates to grown ups

Here's a large scale study from 2021:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6551/eabi5273

Quote:

Similarly, children were found to have mean viral loads only slightly lower (0.5 log10 unitsor less) than those of adults and ~78% of the adult peak cell culture isolation probability.

Another important point is that this is a global pandemic, and impact on children goes far beyond symptomatic illness.

From Unicef:

https://data.unicef.org/covid-19-and-children/

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699479#Comment_117699479

You are not talking about an outbreak of disease though, you're talking about an 'outbreak' of asymptomatic PCR test positives.

There is no such thing as an outbreak of disease sans any sick people.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699479#Comment_117699479

We'll continue to see outbreaks, vaccinated or not, it's the seriousness of those cases that will change (hopefully).

Schools were also pushed as low-risk pre vaccination, I don't see how that could change now.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699771#Comment_117699771

Delta didn't really hit until Ireland at scale until after secondary schools had started to break up, so it's not clear what transmission will be like this autumn/winter. I hope that masks will be ditched at least before Christmas, and I might consider moaning at the school if this isn't the case, particularly since mine will be fully vaxxed by end of September.

DavyD_83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698170#Comment_117698170

What percentage of people in Gibraltar are vaccinated?

I haven't checked, but am guessing it's pretty high...

virginmediapls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699474#Comment_117699474

Nothing to laugh at there. He is dead right. We will have a normal Christmas, unless a new variant **** it up because of gowls not getting vaccinated and allowing it to spread and mutate.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699822#Comment_117699822

115% vaccination rate...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701145#Comment_117701145

There'll always be variants.

Serious question, would you be prepared to go along with restrictions every year if they base said restrictions on the latest variant? Or, would you eventually say we need to "live with Covid" and just get on with our lives?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701368#Comment_117701368

And I've linked to a tweet by an immunologist who says it's basically impossible for a variant to evade the vaccines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697401#Comment_117697401

Absolutely, respect for others , social and emotional well being etc. all good things out the window now it seems. As well as some of the vitriolic language all over the media and yes not just on boards to be fair.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701539#Comment_117701539

I think you just looking for a drama tbh. As far as I know peeps who have good manners and a good bit of brain didn't fcùk it out of window. Think you are still banging on about poster who said, kids are reservoir for diseases. Well it's about right isn't it, that's why vaccinations are there. And it's not about that poster doesn't like kids ffs.

TaurenDruid

Dunno how this will work on new boards; old boards would have previewed the whole tweet. So FWIW the text is:

Dr. Mark Kline Physician-in-Chief at Children's Hospital New Orleans: "This delta variant is every infectious disease specialist's worst nightmare.. There was a myth.. that children were somehow immune... It has become very clear that children are heavily impacted"

and the tweet includes a video.

https://twitter.com/Cleavon_MD/status/1422303133972242444

Lumen

https://twitter.com/Cleavon_MD/status/1422303133972242444

......

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701794#Comment_117701794

This is what I was talking about yesterday . A lot more reports from the US particularly about increase in moderate to severe infectioninyounger children with Delta .

However I don't know if the increase in infection in children is because they were always likely to be as easily infected as adults , or is it that with more and more adults are vaccinated , and with a very much more infectious variant in Delta, children are more susceptible to infection now than before as the virus seeks new hosts?

For example ,even with high numbers infected in the post Christmas wave here , children were not greatly affected .

Mind you schools were closed .

Schools are / will be openand hopefully will stay open .