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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I have two children, both primary-school age. It's not my hobby either. It's my way of doing things. I don't cycle competitively and I'm not part of any club. I only ever cycled because I had places to go and things to carry. My wife is perfectly happy to do things this way, because we save thousands of euro every year.


    Which now I think about it is another point of getting away from designing every street for domination by motorised vehicles. There is a large subsection of the population that could get by with less money, or have money to do other things if we didn't design the urban environment the way we do. There's a strong element of social justice in this, entirely at odds with Cap'n Mannix and his crusade against the Mamil.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And thats wonderful and you probably live in an urban setting where everything you need is local, this is your life and your choices though.

    Other people may have more children including children with disabilities, they may have elderly parents, they may not like cycling, its just more convenient as a family to drive to wherever they want to go at this point in their lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    This whole thread is about cycling infrastructure in an urban environment with ok public transport?


    Again, nobody is saying everyone has to cycle. Most car journeys in the area we're talking about are under 5km and single-occupancy. And there is a clear latent desire for better facilities for walking and cycling. We've already tried designing the streets for everyone to drive, and we have the slowest transit times of any EU capital.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You would swear we were talking about removing all roads in the country



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Actually, tell a lie, Bucharest has worse traffic than Dublin. And that's it for the EU.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,136 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    "i cycled a couple of decades ago when traffic wasn't as bad, and i was a young fit man in my 20s* and if that was good enough for me then, that's good enough for everyone now'.

    yes, i'm choosing to interpret your words in a way you might not have wanted, but i think it's a fair critique.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am stating if you require bicycle lanes everywhere you cycle then its not the best mode of transport for you.

    I preferred cycling with the traffic personally than be forced into these segregated two way lanes with speeding cyclists and no way to exit them to turn right.

    I object to being forced to cross a road unsafely to get into a cycle lane and then to have to cross the same road four hundred metres further to leave this lane.

    There is no room on the left side of this road to cycle with the traffic, it has been reduced in width to put in this two way cycle lane and its of no benefit to me.

    It goes nowhere either, just stops at traffic lights and then dumps you out into traffic.

    Previously you could get out in front of the cars and make them give you space, now the traffic is funnelled in on top of you so more dangerous than before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I have some sympathy with this, but in practice, I'm not seeing this on the newer infrastructure that the good Captain is eyeing up for a harpooning. They are also removing kerbs on the infrastructure in DLR though, it seems, leaving just the wands, so it should help people who need to pass.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    But again, these are district-by-district initiatives. If children in a neighbourhood can get to school by bike (in particular, if their parents are willing to let them, and sharing the road hasn't achieved that level of parental confidence), that's a very large number of car journeys avoided. Same with local shopping, visiting friends. And you're definitely seeing this in DLR. Good variety of ages using the infrastructure too.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,136 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    "I am stating if you require bicycle lanes everywhere you cycle then its not the best mode of transport for you."

    just out of curiosity, which roads around the area would be suitable for say a 13 year old to go on a 1 or 2km cycle to school?

    or would you be happy with a 13 year old cycling along strand road or beach road? as i've mentioned a couple of times already, beach road is not a place for a novice cyclist at certain times of the day.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Whats wrong with walking to school, meeting your pals on the way and having a chat, this is what my children did, the girls wouldnt have cycled anyway because of the school skirt and the straightened hair. Son always cycled on the road and he hates the new cycle lanes too, he says when he is cycling he doesnt want to be a pedestrian, ie getting off his bike to press a button to stop the traffic so he can cross to a two way cycle lane.

    Children have cycled on the rooads to school for years where I live, boys mostly and I havent heard of many accidents. You do develop a sixth sense when you cycle a lot and this will help you far more than cycle lanes that go nowhere.

    The Carysfort Avenue Cycle lane was promoted as a safe cycling to school option but traditionally children cycled though the park and then cycled the short distance to the national school on the footpath, not a problem. Now they are in this cycle lane that crosses housing estate exits, and a business school and then it stops at Convent Road so back up on the footpath the children go anyway.

    En route home they cycle on the footpath to get to it and then they are turfed out at the top of the road,its much safer to go through Carysfort Park and by pass Carysfort Avenue completely if you are cycling to Stillorgan. Same if you are cycling to Dunlaoghaire, the cycling lane is pointless as you are back in traffic past Convent Road, you would be much safer cycling through Avondale Lawn, exit at Barclay Court and join the cycle lane to Dunlaoghaire, return by this route too.

    I cant understand why in all their promotional literature access through two parks to Dunlaoghaire and Stillorgan wasnt highlighted, was it because local residents didnt want speeding male cyclists in their housing estates.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They are probably moving the kerbs as they are dangerous to pedestrians.

    I saw one man fall crossing one and he fell back onto the road, he was lucky he wasnt run over.

    This should have been foreseen by whoever designed these lanes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    "Children have cycled on the rooads to school for years where I live, boys mostly "

    Yes, exactly. And that's an imbalance that needs addressing. They're also predominantly boys older than 13, I bet, another imbalance.

    Again with the speeding male cyclists, which is odd, because the scenarios in which you advocate everyone cycling, on the road where they can go fast, is the scenario that those people prefer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    The reported cause was that cyclists fell off when they cycled into them without noticing they were there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I have to say, the biblical phrase of straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel comes to mind with all the talk of the speeding cyclists making neighbourhoods unpleasant.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It would be better for everyone if these speeding heavy male cyclists drove somewhere were they can cycle as fast as they like.

    They want to prevent others driving as being hindered by cars annoys them, they want one way roads devoted to them and to hell with everyone else who cant cycle in all conditions like them.

    The whole cycling lobby is predominately male, all the officials involved in promoting cycling in Dunlaoghaire and in DCC are male too, there has to be input from other cohorts in the community.

    DCC and Dunlaoghaire Rathdown took advantage of a pandemic where people were criminalised for daring to go outside their 2km to ram through proposals that are unacceptable and that there is no mandate for. They knew people couldnt organise public meetings and zoom is not user friendly for everyone, people couldnt organise to even mount protests and its still not permitted to arrange indoor meetings where people can show their oppostion.

    The officials are "working from home' so its impossible to contact any of them except by email and you will generally get some generic response. This angers and frustrates locals who feel they have no voice and many arent used to twitter etc where a minority can make an awful lot of noise,its a sad state of affairs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    To be fair TP, the Councils acted off the back of a reckless Government instruction. One that was never going to hold up to scrutiny.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,760 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Yeah, this is drifting into fantasy now, with burly speeding freaks trying to warp the urban landscape to feed their selfish cravings, by installing infrastructure that increases the number of children and women cycling.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    It doesn't matter what percentage of traffic on Strand Rd is going to the Port (or anywhere else). 100% of traffic using Strand Rd will have to take a different route. Those proposing this have undertaken no research into the implications - Owen Keegan said he isn't even interested.

    A move this drastic needs to be justified by data, starting with an audit of traffic using Strand Rd - number and types of vehicles, origin, destination, traffic patterns during the day etc. Then add in the alternative options available for those vehicles and see what that looks like. Its called planning and good city managers do it all the time.

    If Keegan can't be bothered (or more likely knows the findings wouldn't look good) he needs to be reminded of his responsibilities. If the Councillors can't or won't do that, then the Courts will.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Your claim of 100% of traffic using Strand Rd will have to take a different route is incorrect. Vehicular traffic could still have travelled along it!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The whole cycling lobby is predominately male, all the officials involved in promoting cycling in Dunlaoghaire and in DCC are male too, there has to be input from other cohorts in the community.

    These are the exact people who benefit least from the infrastructure we are talking about.

    You are going round in nonsensical circles.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its going to evaporate, I mean this happened in Paris so of course its going to happen in sandymount.

    its only a temporary trial too, sure, the same way other cycle lanes were supposed to be temporary too.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I am stating if you require bicycle lanes everywhere you cycle then its not the best mode of transport for you.

    If you require two way vehicular lanes everywhere you drive then it's not the best mode of transport for you.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mod Note

    The standard of some of the contributions has fallen way below what is expected in this forum over the past number of days. One person has already been sanctioned and, if this continues, I'd expect to see some more. Please review the charter before posting again.

    Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    100% is about 50% to high of an exaggeration h less all traffic heads northbound and that would mean it’s already one way. Of that 50% there will be a percentage of modal shift, and the remainder will use alternative routes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    What other cycle lanes were on a trial basis and are permanent? First Up said the same thing and wasn’t able to back up the claim. Maybe you can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up




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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You do know that not everyone can drive, or has access to a car - whether for age reasons or economic reasons or disability reasons. Cars are not some great equaliser. They are a privilege of the better off sections of society. You did notice the figures for car ownership in Dublin that were shared earlier, I hope?



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