Working From Home Megathread

Why would we still need social distancing and mask wearing if everyone is vaccinated?

Yeah, I remember a good discussion on here earlier in the year about how difficult it would be to reopen offices as you head into Winter, and Delta has made it even harder. Even if Covid is relatively under control, cases will rise in Winter & hospitals are going to be under pressure because of all the other illnesses at that time of year anyway. I expect there may be a "soft" requirement to WFH ("it's not mandatory but please WFH") as we can't afford not to be competitive as a country and impose restrictions on businesses which don't apply in other countries.

It's never been legally mandated by the government. But it has been requested.

And some companies have required it of their staff, along with imposing other rules like "No public transport" and "No sharing cars, unless with someone who lives in the same house".

Yeah, international reputation matters with this, so maybe, as you indicated, 'work from home where possible' will get replaced with some sort of soft middle ground strongly encouraging WFH or capacity restrictions or 'slow return' advise but soft middle ground runs the risk of a u-turn in the depths of Winter when the 'work from home where possible' might have to get re-enacted. Anyway, difficult to see WFH guidance getting fully lifted for Winter. With just 6 weeks until offices are due to return guidance is urgently needed. The government are going to have to make a decision soon.

Even if workplaces are allowed reopen, the mess in the UK with business places constantly having to close because one person tests positive, gives an indication of the challenges ahead, and will prove especially a big challenge to open-plan work-spaces with shared air. That's on top of the aforementioned social distancing (which will mean a cap of 50% in open plan offices with every second desk closed and meeting curtailment) and painful mask-wearing at desks (and some companies have being light on enforcing this because there were so few people in the office but if larger groups return enforcement will have to be greater).

I suspect that many companies will wait until after Winter before reopening indoor offices.

It absolutely has been mandatory for most state employees since the start of Covid, with no provision for those who don't have space or other facilities at home.

Once we finish the vaccination programme Covid should be reduced to "just another respiratory illness". It'll be very difficult for the government to justify continuing with social distancing, mandatory masks etc. if it is hospitalising people at no greater rate than flu for example. The hospitals then have a problem because they're already at 100% over Winter because of Flu, but I can't see Ireland inc. having social distancing restrictions while our neighbours are back to normal. I don't know what the answer is, but we'll have moved from a clear national emergency to a hospital capacity issue, and I can't see the latter being a strong enough justification for saying to employers you need to continue with restrictions.

Like you say I could see a push for a voluntary social distancing/WFH, and I think that would actually work quite well. People don't like commuting over Winter in particular. I could foresee actual restrictions on indoor venues, and the days of packing hundreds of employees into a Christmas party might be on hold - quite aside from the risk to employees, does a business want to take the risk of hundreds of employees having to quarantine because there was an outbreak?

So as wiser heads than me have said on here, it's Spring next year I think before we are back to "normal" work patterns, whatever they may be. And at that stage we'll be 2 years into WFH, and the "normal" will have changed in people's heads.

Agreed with the Spring 2022 comment.

The way I look at it there is too much *uncertainty* for most big businesses to plan to reopen offices in September or even during Winter:

• Will the government allow offices reopen in September? God knows.
• If so, when in September? God knows.
• When will the government advise? God knows.
• Could the government give some sort of middle-ground rules on office reopening? Possible.
• Will social distancing be needed inside the offices and gaps between desks? God knows. Some say yes for Winter, others say no after vaccinations complete. i.e. nobody knows.
• Will mask wearing continue to be mandatory indoors at desks in offices? God knows. Some say yes for Winter, others say no after vaccinations complete. i.e. nobody knows.
• Will everyone in the office need to self-isolate, who was in a shared airspace, if one person gets it? Probably and this might be a nightmare of open-plan offices.
• Will there be another surge of Covid in the Winter when schools, colleges etc reopen and the weather gets crap? Possibly. Could the government be forced to re-introduce WFH where possible if this happens? Possibly.
• If hospitals get overwhelmed this Winter could the government also be forced to re-introduce WFH where possible if this happens? Possibly.
• Will pressure to improve ventilation in offices lead to new indoor office ventilation rules like some are pushing for in the UK? Unlikely but possible.

Net result of all this uncertainty will be delays in reopening offices until there is certainty and that certainty might not arrive until Spring 2022 when Winter is over.

Hence, I would guess that the logical conclusion is that many offices will not reopen until after Winter.

This isn't some esoteric career development issues. Most people at 55 have substantial financial commitments, mortgage, kids at college, putting food on the table. 'Taking a hit' isn't an option for most.

What you describe there with people from Galway or Cork coming in one or two times a month (if even) is what I would call WFH and not hybrid.

Hybrid is where people would be required to come in to the office on certain days and stay at home on certain days.

Our group, who have been 100% WFH since March 2020, were given a survey on what we might like going forward.

It did not include a "0 days per week in the office option", which annoyed some people who are doing fine from home, wondering why they had to come on at least one arbitrary day for the sake of it.

Good luck with that at age 55.

After 50, your chances of even getting an interview go down substantially.

They said no.

Right, but this is a hypothetical 55yo who most likely bought the house 25 years ago......who's had potentially 25years of increases and promotions.

You can see how quickly this conversations gets pretty nonseneical when we're basically saying chideren would be better of losing a parent than taking a pay cut.

Sure, Sorry I was referring to the hypothetical 55yo that was brought up previously that turned out be better off dead than taking a pay cut

Some people will go to any lengths to push a non wfh agenda to the point of killing off parents :D

Most people put on headphones while working and it cuts out noise.

How long does it take to tidy up the house, a few minutes and you could do it on a lunch break.

How many deliveries do you get a day.

In work you are guaranteed to have someone calling over to chat, guaranteed small talk when moving around and more noise.

How can being in an office with people make it more likely you can get uninterrupted hours than being alone with a pair of headphones.

it is pure nonsense to say you have less distractions in the office.

If people are doing more hours at home that's a decision they are making, I certainly have not worked more hours than I need to.

Again haven't the majority of studies I have seen here and from my job that people are as productive at home or even more productive.

If you opened a company advertising you have to be 100% in the office you would be ruling out a lot of potential employees.

Remember all that 'guaranteed small talk'? That's how you learn about other stuff going on outside of your direct area. That's how you learn about new opportunities and managers to avoid. That's how you build relationships outside of your immediate team that stand to you when you expand your role or just need someone to bounce something off.

Great New York Times article on the status of return to the office.

Some interesting take-aways:

• Masks becoming compulsory indoors in offices again at Google.
• Some companies delaying return to office. Apple has pushed back from September to October.
• Indeed.com pushing back their return to office beyond the original September date.
• Many other companies with September returns are "actively monitoring the situation".
• Companies forced to make very difficult decisions as to whether to reverse plans to reopen offices. Some companies have made u-turns after reopening their offices and have closed them again.
• Many employers making vaccinations mandatory.
• 1,000 Apple staff sign letter looking for right to work from home full time.

Delays, u-turns, some pissed off employees with returning, social distancing between desks and painful mask wearing at your desk. Lovely.

September return to the office is looking less and less likely.

That's as sweeping a generalisation as saying people who favour working from home full time are work shy layabouts.