As I said. Some more than others. But if I was 55 I would be much more inclined to leave a company who wanted to put me at risk for something I can safely do at home.
Once we finish the vaccination programme Covid should be reduced to "just another respiratory illness". It'll be very difficult for the government to justify continuing with social distancing, mandatory masks etc. if it is hospitalising people at no greater rate than flu for example. The hospitals then have a problem because they're already at 100% over Winter because of Flu, but I can't see Ireland inc. having social distancing restrictions while our neighbours are back to normal. I don't know what the answer is, but we'll have moved from a clear national emergency to a hospital capacity issue, and I can't see the latter being a strong enough justification for saying to employers you need to continue with restrictions.
Like you say I could see a push for a voluntary social distancing/WFH, and I think that would actually work quite well. People don't like commuting over Winter in particular. I could foresee actual restrictions on indoor venues, and the days of packing hundreds of employees into a Christmas party might be on hold - quite aside from the risk to employees, does a business want to take the risk of hundreds of employees having to quarantine because there was an outbreak?
So as wiser heads than me have said on here, it's Spring next year I think before we are back to "normal" work patterns, whatever they may be. And at that stage we'll be 2 years into WFH, and the "normal" will have changed in people's heads.
It's hard to play hardball with your employer when you know your chances of getting into comparable employment are severely restricted by ageism.
Agreed with the Spring 2022 comment.
The way I look at it there is too much *uncertainty* for most big businesses to plan to reopen offices in September or even during Winter:
Net result of all this uncertainty will be delays in reopening offices until there is certainty and that certainty might not arrive until Spring 2022 when Winter is over.
Hence, I would guess that the logical conclusion is that many offices will not reopen until after Winter.
I wouldn't be playing hardball. I'd be finding another job.
If it meant taking a hit, so be it. My health is more important than my career.
This isn't some esoteric career development issues. Most people at 55 have substantial financial commitments, mortgage, kids at college, putting food on the table. 'Taking a hit' isn't an option for most.
We can go around on this for ever.
They won't be putting much on the table if they're dead.
So people need to figure out whats important.
for me, that's not working for a company who's willing to put me or anyone else at risk for no other reason than just having people in an office when the job can be done remotely.
That's me. What some random theoretical 55yo will or won't do is up to them.
Not in the IT industry but have been working for a large MNC for the last couple of years who has been Hybrid for quite a while and it does actually work very well, at least for us. There is no window dressing or expectation to come into the office. Most people come into the office a few days a week to see their teams, have meetings F2F or make use of the on-site tech. We're based in Dublin but some people live in Cork, Galway etc and only come to the office 1-2 times a month (if even), zero issues. Attendance on-site is only mandatory if you are actually needed or pulled in by your manager, which is very rare. We don't even have desk space for the full headcount.
In my circumstance, having the flexibly of a hybrid approach is key. Sometimes I don't want to work at home and prefer to go into the office (and vice-versa). I don't have slick VC tech with giant screens, 4K cameras and air-conditioning at home, which certainly is useful if you have a day of calls with teams across regions. It's also nice to see my Irish colleagues in person where possible.
I guess our benefit is that most meetings are VC as there is usually a handful of people dealing in from X country, so you could be in Dublin, Paris, Cork or NY - doesn't really matter, so even if you are in the office, you're still connecting to a call vs in person.
Long story short - if implemented correctly from top down, it definitely works and everyone wins.
Especially if they are not willing to reimburse wfh staff for teabags, the electricity used boiling the kettle, the wear and tear on the drawers where the spoons are.
Damn the man, fight the power!
Or maybe they could just pay for the additional out of pocket costs for WFH employees, mainly furniture and home heating bills? Is that really too much to ask?
What you describe there with people from Galway or Cork coming in one or two times a month (if even) is what I would call WFH and not hybrid.
Hybrid is where people would be required to come in to the office on certain days and stay at home on certain days.
Our group, who have been 100% WFH since March 2020, were given a survey on what we might like going forward.
It did not include a "0 days per week in the office option", which annoyed some people who are doing fine from home, wondering why they had to come on at least one arbitrary day for the sake of it.
What did they say when you asked?
Good luck with that at age 55.
After 50, your chances of even getting an interview go down substantially.
Mortgage protection insurance means that many families would be better off with a dead parent than one who had to take a substantial pay cut.
They said no.
Damn the man!
Mandating people come into the office on specific days isn't very hybrid or flexible, IMO. What about the people who want to work full time in the office? Would be pretty annoying have to work X days from home if you didn't want that.
'Flexible working policy' is probably the best term to call a hybrid approach that people actually want / like.
Those that are in a position to jump ship will probably do so very quickly if their employer rolls out **** post-COVID policies, and those that can't will...just get on with it. I suspect the only people who will really complain are those that are forced to come back 5 days a week without question, because there is zero logic for that in this day and age.
The company I work for was supposed to be doing a return to office in September. I was expecting to hear detailed long before now (when exactly, if they would operate social distancing, if we had to wear masks when indoors etc). Instead total silence and rumours that the return to work won't happen in September and will get pushed back until "the picture gets clearer".
Are other people finding the same? Are other companies abandoning September return to office plans? Perhaps for the reasons stated by other posters.
Sounds like they might have over extended then.
With the high costs of accommodation in some parts of the country, it's possible to be overextended while still have inadequate accommodation.
I was fortunate when I last changed jobs, replacing a 5 hour (bothways)commute with a ten minutes drive & 20% pay cut, that my mortgage payments were less than 10% of take home pay, now fully paid off. Getting back almost 20 a week was well worth the cost of 20% salary.
A few elements to take into account:
I would not be surprised to see a government advice around the 15th August and the companies starting communicating around the 20th August for people to get back in the office beginning of September. We are not supposed to need a long notice because we should be ready to be back to work as "normal" as stated in our contracts, even if in reality a minority of people have moved far from the office or taken arrangements that are not compatible with going to the office.
Right, but this is a hypothetical 55yo who most likely bought the house 25 years ago......who's had potentially 25years of increases and promotions.
You can see how quickly this conversations gets pretty nonseneical when we're basically saying chideren would be better of losing a parent than taking a pay cut.
As a 60year old, the situation is not hypothetical, so for me changing jobs at 55 was still possible and was a huge improvement in the quality of life at a cost of -25% (20% after taking into account the reduction in commuting costs) of take home pay.
WFH has reduced the costs of working even more.
But yes it is likely that in some areas, age will be a real negative when it comes to changing jobs, but with the right skills and qualifications (and ideally a lack of competiton) the jobs are there.
Sure, Sorry I was referring to the hypothetical 55yo that was brought up previously that turned out be better off dead than taking a pay cut
Some people will go to any lengths to push a non wfh agenda to the point of killing off parents :D
My employer was trying to bring people back to the office on 10th May when other restrictions started being eased, but obviously that wasn't going to happen. They're desperate to get us back full time ASAP (even the tiny regional offices that only have 2 to 3 people in them, with no public facing roles). It's very frustrating, what is the point in commuting for an hour each way to sit in an office with one other person?
So push back
There has to be stronger justification than "cos thats the why!!1"
there is less distractions for most people at the office. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/pilita-clark-mediocre-workers-have-nowhere-to-hide-at-home-1.4623898 article suggests what i believe is that we are doing more hours at home than in office but are less productive. i prefer the office as i get uninterrupted hours at a time instead of having kids screaming on the road, the delivery drivers, and my lack of self disipline to start tidying during the day.
plus lack of aircon in this heat.
if i was a new company id have in job adverts that i want 100% time in office and see if i get prospective employee interest.
Most people put on headphones while working and it cuts out noise.
How long does it take to tidy up the house, a few minutes and you could do it on a lunch break.
How many deliveries do you get a day.
In work you are guaranteed to have someone calling over to chat, guaranteed small talk when moving around and more noise.
How can being in an office with people make it more likely you can get uninterrupted hours than being alone with a pair of headphones.
it is pure nonsense to say you have less distractions in the office.
If people are doing more hours at home that's a decision they are making, I certainly have not worked more hours than I need to.
Again haven't the majority of studies I have seen here and from my job that people are as productive at home or even more productive.
If you opened a company advertising you have to be 100% in the office you would be ruling out a lot of potential employees.
maybe its just lack of disipline on my part. when you were doing the leaving cert, did the school offer supervised study? i know studnets that had nice big houses with ample study space but they prefered to pay to have supervised study after school. i benefited from that, or going to the library. i wouldnt be typing this if i was in the office.
This all sounds like a you problem to be honest