Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

There is a strong motif being promoted in the media about the unvaccinated harbouring harm for the vaccinated. I think this is illogical, aside from being dangerous.

Here I explain why.

Back when I was in the process of getting myself banned from the vaccination thread for mentioning things people do not want to hear, like the very many Adverse Reactions, I also mentioned Geert Vanden Bossche, a comment which has not migrated unfortunately.

Geert, an experienced virologist, has held for many months now that -

Mass vaccination at the height of a pandemic is a very bad idea as it puts immune escape pressure on the virus (in the same way as serial passaging of viruses in laboratories is done with some immune pressure to promote evolution of variants). This has been a long held and widely known basic tenet of immunology. You do not mass vaccinate mid pandemic.

No one wants to hear that. And I understand why.

But I saw something interesting lately.

SAGE - the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies in the UK - recently gave the UK government an update and among the points made is the following -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021

Now I believe, although thankfully I have not been closely following the politics, that people sneer at SAGE, but nonetheless they are scientists, and should at least have some brains among them. Note especially ''the combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination'' is how immune escape variant(s are) ''MOST likely to emerge''.

This is a statement based on the fundamental immunological tenet repeatedly expressed by Bossche that one does not mass vaccinate mid pandemic because it creates variants.

It is quite a complicated thing to fully explain, but basically vaccine immune escape pressure is to do with sub optimal antibodies mounted by vaccinees, especially between doses 1 and 2, after second dose before full antibodies have matured, when vaccine-induced immunity begins to wane over time, and in people who will never mount a robust defense even in the presence of vaccination as they are immuno-compromised in some way. Non-sterilising vaccines are an issue also of course.

While vaccines - if one does not get an adverse reaction, which is a repeating risk, when boosters are factored in - seem to have a helpful effect on an individual level in terms of lessening disease, on the broader demographic level problems arise as the virus is always working away trying to select to compete with specifically the vaccine.

Yes, high prevalence within an unvaccinated population also causes some variants, because where you have lots of something you have more mutations. In that case however the variants are not selectively evolving to specifically evade vaccines. Which is what happens when you have both high prevalence and high vaccination rates. As acknowledged now by SAGE.

And, to touch on a different but related issue, vaccine inequality whereby the rich world gets fully vaccinated is creating a situation whereby even if vaccines maintained efficacy (which they are not doing -refer to https://www.google.ie/amp/s/m.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084/amp ) there will be huge swathes of the global population who will not get a sniff of any vaccine before a very long time. (Although I do often see rich countries making virtuous and very public announcements about how they are going to donate vaccines - usually vaccines whose safety profile the developed world is turning its collective nose up at, or worse still short-dated vaccines. I mean WTF? Sending short dated vaccines into areas where they do not even have rudimentary refrigeration or facilities. What could possibly go wrong? ) But my point is, one fraction of the world is rapidly chasing boosters already, while the majority rest of the world have hardly any first doses and this is like keeping your head looking good while your foot rots off with gangrene.

Anyways, just saying this, to keep a record of it for posterity. I know most people completely and even violently disagree with these POV. I would literally love to be a believer. It would be great for my head space. There is huge emotional investment in a way out. But for some reason I am not a believer and it is maddening that these ideas are generally unknown and not discussed.

It is something to see basic immunological principles being at least somewhat acknowledged now by scientific advisory bodies in other countries.

Lol. No worries.

What about those who havnt been fully vaccinated yet?

They can choose to do what they wish, and accept the level of risk they want.

But the rest of us should not be held hostage in the meantime.