Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Cork2021

I find all of these kind of articles funny at this stage! Lads and lassies ye can’t be having a BBQ this weekend! Are NPHET really really that stuck that they need to link cases to absolutely everything!

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/public-urged-to-avoid-barbecues-despite-weather-as-infections-roar-40661996.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR0UJKNuOPvzGh8fxqDK3Ms0yYR_hyp0d9J7Lmp7-d48u_VI0iMa3CNGXdg

TefalBrain

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622965#Comment_117622965

It's kind of sad in a way i suppose. They have had so much power for so long and now they are pretty much irrelevant. It's great to see people out and about having parties once again in my opinion.

JRant

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622965#Comment_117622965

They can advise as much as they like but people are just doing their own thing at this stage and who can blame them after the miserable year we've all had so far. Indoor activities are still closed, outdoor activities are seriously limited in capacity, ergo, people will just do the next best thing and have a bbq and a few friend's and family over. All of which is completely normal behavior yet these lads seem to believe they can micromanage people's lives.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622942#Comment_117622942

A major problem with most of those studies is they have no control group to compare to. They also rely on self reporting of symptoms which makes them highly prone to bias.

Cork2021

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623007#Comment_117623007

Yeah I agree, it is sad now! They’re really clinging on now! What do they want people to do? Just sit at home and cry into our drinks! That day is gone!

as I said yesterday looks like Micheal Martin is starting to see the light by going against their advise

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623016#Comment_117623016

A major problem with all of these studies on COVID is that we have never done them before with any other regular afflictions like flu. While there is much to be said about delving into areas like this we still have not cracked the pathogenesis of the disease itself. There is however work underway to identify long COVID in people via diagnostic tests.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57776010

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623024#Comment_117623024

It is now a scenario of looking beyond the daily case numbers to how hospitalisations change. There is little suggestion at present that they are going to rise at a particularly alarming rate. The late NPHET advice is just that, advice we'd expect them to give as an emergency team.

prunudo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622965#Comment_117622965

I used to get angry, now I just laugh at the shite they come out with.

The worst or saddest part is though, there is a minority who will contuine to hang on his every word and be tut tutting at their neighbours having bbq's over the weekend.

prunudo

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623024#Comment_117623024

Only as long as its a non alcoholic drink!

Cork2021

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623053#Comment_117623053

Apple juice all round!

Widdensushi

Lovely cheerful news alert from rte this morning, when other arguments fail roll out long covid

funnydoggy

Good morning everybody. Working for the weekend now so I can't enjoy the weather but I hope you all have nice big barbeques to make up for me not seeing the light of day for the next few days 🤣😉

Cork2021

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623065#Comment_117623065

Wife and myself going to Dinner later for our anniversary then heading to the local for drinks, grandparents babysitting!

id love to see a rush on disposable bbqs and then everyone put it on social media…

Tony will have a banger!!

funnydoggy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623086#Comment_117623086

Enjoy dude. Going into town? I'd say it will be absolutely packed, the atmosphere will be amazing 😍

OwenM

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117621652#Comment_117621652

Agreed. Literally any symptom is allowed to be 'long covid' and this takes away from the people with actual issues. Someone can claim "my toenails don't grow as fast anymore" as long covid and its believed

Cork2021

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623097#Comment_117623097

Will do thanks.

No here at home near Mallow, both places will be packed, looking forward to it

cheezums

Donnelly and NPHETs latest tactic of scaring young people with talk of long covid is a disgrace to be honest. They should be ashamed of themselves.

funnydoggy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623103#Comment_117623103

Stop off in lidl for a bbq on your way home 🤣🤣🤣

bloopy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623047#Comment_117623047

Go over to Reddit Ireland and look at some of the comments there.

Calling people degenerates, plague rats etc.

There is a certain cohort who are getting extremely wound up in this thing. They are getting a little scary.

funnydoggy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623112#Comment_117623112

I'd love to know the majority demographic of the users in that sub. The attitude has changed slightly in the last few weeks but generally, you need to follow the status quo or you're downvoted to hell and called every name under the sun.

Downvotes are grand as a concept but if your score gets low enough your comment is hidden from view. NO room for discussion.

There must be some serious bot / paid accounts there.

There is a strong motif being promoted in the media about the unvaccinated harbouring harm for the vaccinated. I think this is illogical, aside from being dangerous.

Here I explain why.

Back when I was in the process of getting myself banned from the vaccination thread for mentioning things people do not want to hear, like the very many Adverse Reactions, I also mentioned Geert Vanden Bossche, a comment which has not migrated unfortunately.

Geert, an experienced virologist, has held for many months now that -

Mass vaccination at the height of a pandemic is a very bad idea as it puts immune escape pressure on the virus (in the same way as serial passaging of viruses in laboratories is done with some immune pressure to promote evolution of variants). This has been a long held and widely known basic tenet of immunology. You do not mass vaccinate mid pandemic.

No one wants to hear that. And I understand why.

But I saw something interesting lately.

SAGE - the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies in the UK - recently gave the UK government an update and among the points made is the following -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021

9. There are four major risks associated with high numbers of infections. These are an increase in hospitalisations and deaths, more ‘Long-COVID’; workforce absences (including in the NHS); and the increased risk of new variants emerging. The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge. The likelihood of this happening is unknown, but such a variant would present a significant risk both in the UK and internationally.

Now I believe, although thankfully I have not been closely following the politics, that people sneer at SAGE, but nonetheless they are scientists, and should at least have some brains among them. Note especially ''the combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination'' is how immune escape variant(s are) ''MOST likely to emerge''.

This is a statement based on the fundamental immunological tenet repeatedly expressed by Bossche that one does not mass vaccinate mid pandemic because it creates variants.

It is quite a complicated thing to fully explain, but basically vaccine immune escape pressure is to do with sub optimal antibodies mounted by vaccinees, especially between doses 1 and 2, after second dose before full antibodies have matured, when vaccine-induced immunity begins to wane over time, and in people who will never mount a robust defense even in the presence of vaccination as they are immuno-compromised in some way. Non-sterilising vaccines are an issue also of course.

While vaccines - if one does not get an adverse reaction, which is a repeating risk, when boosters are factored in - seem to have a helpful effect on an individual level in terms of lessening disease, on the broader demographic level problems arise as the virus is always working away trying to select to compete with specifically the vaccine.

Yes, high prevalence within an unvaccinated population also causes some variants, because where you have lots of something you have more mutations. In that case however the variants are not selectively evolving to specifically evade vaccines. Which is what happens when you have both high prevalence and high vaccination rates. As acknowledged now by SAGE.

And, to touch on a different but related issue, vaccine inequality whereby the rich world gets fully vaccinated is creating a situation whereby even if vaccines maintained efficacy (which they are not doing -refer to https://www.google.ie/amp/s/m.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084/amp ) there will be huge swathes of the global population who will not get a sniff of any vaccine before a very long time. (Although I do often see rich countries making virtuous and very public announcements about how they are going to donate vaccines - usually vaccines whose safety profile the developed world is turning its collective nose up at, or worse still short-dated vaccines. I mean WTF? Sending short dated vaccines into areas where they do not even have rudimentary refrigeration or facilities. What could possibly go wrong? ) But my point is, one fraction of the world is rapidly chasing boosters already, while the majority rest of the world have hardly any first doses and this is like keeping your head looking good while your foot rots off with gangrene.

Anyways, just saying this, to keep a record of it for posterity. I know most people completely and even violently disagree with these POV. I would literally love to be a believer. It would be great for my head space. There is huge emotional investment in a way out. But for some reason I am not a believer and it is maddening that these ideas are generally unknown and not discussed.

It is something to see basic immunological principles being at least somewhat acknowledged now by scientific advisory bodies in other countries.

TefalBrain

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623047#Comment_117623047

Tbh i knew those people where out there but yeah covid has really brought them out to the fore. We are done with it here in our house tbh. We've done everything asked of us but we've run out of road now in regards patience and the naff NPHET keep coming out with.

There's always going to be "two more weeks" and "concern" from them and tbh i just don't care anymore. If that makes me a bad person then so be it.

Banana Republic 1

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623112#Comment_117623112

rm212

It’s really frustrating to see them make such a big song and dance with these rising COVID cases, “shock horror as 2000 cases per day expected by end of July”. Right… but who cares? The hospitalisations are increasing at a very slow crawl, deaths basically aren’t happening anymore, and by the end of July, a lot of the 25-29s will be done and they’ll be opening up for the 18-24 category.

Personally, I think we can endure high cases without a lot of serious hospitalisations for a few weeks while the last groups (the lowest risk ones) are vaccinated.

bloopy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623273#Comment_117623273

Ok. I deserved that.

Have heard the word so often that I couldn't think of an alternative.

klose

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622965#Comment_117622965

Genuinely think they are trolling at times, that or they're so deluded it begs belief.

I'll never forget there was an article or news snippet when Tony said its now OK for grandparents to hug their grandchildren or soemthing to that degree, I mean come on like.

Happydays2020

Some amount of testing and positive tests. Although strangely if you are 18 and some friends get the virus (and you are asymptomatic) you may as well get tested as if positive you will be in a position to travel ahead of getting a vaccine.

GeorgeBailey

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623273#Comment_117623273

The Cohort cohort are back in action

funnydoggy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117623016#Comment_117623016

Could very easily be a reason for increased cases too. Of course not all but some perhaps?

Lollipop95

Could be there another lockdown or definitely not? Can’t really see the justification given the vaccine roll out