Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

OwenM · 05-07-2021 10:19AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's not NPHETs role to get involved with negotiation with different sectors. That's government.

So think it through... Why do the hospitality sector want NPHET at the negotiations - because they (NPHET) are in effect making the decisions and these talks are just theatre as far as they are concerned if you don't have the powerbrokers at the table.

I don't blame them for thinking that, unless Micheal Martin grows a spine between now and the 19th NPHET are just going to say no to whatever they don't like and that will be that.

mikekerry · 05-07-2021 10:22AM

Jizique wrote: »

It really really gets on my wick - would love to know how much the govt has given to RTÉ and other stations to pump out this crap at regular intervals, it’s like North Korea

yeah it's literally a covid ad every 15 minutes or so.
and those ads are so patronising - "there are better days ahead"
Are they fortune tellers or something!

namloc1980 · 05-07-2021 10:26AM

mikekerry wrote: »

yeah it's literally a covid ad every 15 minutes or so.
and those ads are so patronising - "there are better days ahead"
Are they fortune tellers or something!

"There are better days ahead" is the same as the "just 2 or 3 more weeks" guff we've been hearing for over a year now.

Hurrache · 05-07-2021 10:27AM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Tony thought the Irish people were too thick to wear masks properly this time last year.

Go out and you'll see he hasn't been far wrong.

Tchaikovsky · 05-07-2021 10:27AM

Lads, can we stop bickering and let the internet know that we're all having so much fun here in Ireland?

Red Silurian · 05-07-2021 10:29AM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Ah! The lockdown to avoid lockdown method! I see.

That was the goal least year with deferring the reopening of non-food pubs, I remember all the talk about not wanting to go back into restrictions

Fair enough we knew less about this virus at the time but it's safe to say it didn't work

stevenup7002 · 05-07-2021 10:31AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Exactly. I know the internet does anger and rage better than anywhere but the past few days has been ridiculous. Its been a completely ott reaction to what - the restriction on indoor hospitality.

Just get on with it.

I'm curious to know at what point you think things would be taken too far, given the current situation.

The word "authoritarian" is being thrown around a lot, and people like you, (maybe rightfully), push back on that as hyperbole. But at what point is it not hyperbole?

I get the sense that, even if we actually did creep up to extreme Pol Pot levels of authoritarianism, there would still be plenty of people along the way able to rationalize what was going on as necessary, and not having too much difficulty with it. That worries me. It's worth reflecting on whether or not you've allowed yourself to be lulled into a false sense of normalcy.

It may just be indoor hospitality to you, but to others, it's their livelihood, it's their social life, it's a core part of how they operate in the world. (And it's not just indoor hospitality)

Imagine something as important to you being taken away for the better part of 15 months, and ask yourself where you would draw the line on that.

Would you be angry? Would you be asking for justification and a clear, coherent explanation of why? Would you want to be absolutely sure that it's necessary before allowing it to be taken away? Would you want to ensure that it will actually be returned to you when the time is right?

Do you have a clearly defined point where you would start to stand up and say "no, this is not okay"? If not, why not?

seamus · 05-07-2021 10:33AM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

I just saw yesterday on my Facebook memories that we were in Waterford this time last year doing the Greenway. After we finished we had lunch in a pub. Yes, IN a pub. That was without masks and more importantly without vaccines. Now a year later WITH both of those things in place we can’t eat inside. Can someone please ****ing explain this situation to me because I just don’t get it.

The reopening of indoor dining last Summer, led directly to the surge in cases that required us to re-impose restrictions again in early October.

So, we would all agree that it would be foolish to just reopen indoor dining again in exactly the same way, because you'll just get the same results. And we're starting from a case load that's 10 times higher than it was last year.

In effect you're asking, "Why aren't we making the same mistakes we made last year?"

Atlantic Dawn · 05-07-2021 10:34AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

"There are better days ahead" is the same as the "just 2 or 3 more weeks" guff we've been hearing for over a year now.

And no journalist will put in a freedom of information request in to see how much is being spent because their very organisation is getting a share of this money.

bucketybuck · 05-07-2021 10:38AM

seamus wrote: »

The reopening of indoor dining last Summer, led directly to the surge in cases that required us to re-impose restrictions again in early October.

Sure, it was the restaurants, definitely not the schools at all.

Snooker Loopy · 05-07-2021 10:39AM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Ah! The lockdown to avoid lockdown method! I see.

I see you have "Kilkenny: 35 and counting" on your profile.

You should then be fairly familiar with the concept of an injured player not playing in order that they will be able to play in the future.

How did Henry Shefflin trying to play on a severed cruciate in 2010 work out? He hobbled off after a few minutes and Kilkenny were well beaten.

The exact same principle is at work during Covid. Ireland as a society cannot play when it is injured. Returning to play before you're ready will likely mean a further worse injury lay off.

Fann Linn · 05-07-2021 10:40AM

Hurrache wrote: »

Go out and you'll see he hasn't been far wrong.

Because a few clowns have them hanging out of rear view mirrors?

This was the same lad who stood over the cervical smear scandal, said there could be 700k cases by September without having all the data analysed and went on a rant over some people in Sth. William Street and a few weeks later we've still no major contagion figures from.

Forgive me if I don't share the same confidence in him as you do.

FlubberJones · 05-07-2021 10:41AM

seamus wrote: »

The reopening of indoor dining last Summer, led directly to the surge in cases that required us to re-impose restrictions again in early October.

So, we would all agree that it would be foolish to just reopen indoor dining again in exactly the same way, because you'll just get the same results. And we're starting from a case load that's 10 times higher than it was last year.

In effect you're asking, "Why aren't we making the same mistakes we made last year?"

There were no vaccines last year, we're not comparing like for like

Working class heroes · 05-07-2021 10:42AM

seamus wrote: »

The reopening of indoor dining last Summer, led directly to the surge in cases that required us to re-impose restrictions again in early October.

So, we would all agree that it would be foolish to just reopen indoor dining again in exactly the same way, because you'll just get the same results. And we're starting from a case load that's 10 times higher than it was last year.

In effect you're asking, "Why aren't we making the same mistakes we made last year?"

What an extremely lob sided view.
It's not the same situation. I wont go into why its not as it's been done to death here, as I'm sure you are very much aware....

Snooker Loopy · 05-07-2021 10:43AM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Because a few clowns have them hanging out of rear view mirrors?

This was the same lad who stood over the cervical smear scandal, said there could be 700k cases by September without having all the data analysed and went on a rant over some people in Sth. William Street and a few weeks later we've still no major contagion figures from.

Forgive me if I don't share the same confidence in him as you do.

The same people who are demanding opening up now are the same people who demanded opening up last summer, last autumn, and last Christmas, and have been ranting ever since.

The let it rip merchants.

Forgive me if I don't have the same confidence in them as you do.

Hurrache · 05-07-2021 10:43AM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Because a few clowns have them hanging out of rear view mirrors?

No, because there's many clowns who haven't a clue how to wear them effectively.

bucketybuck · 05-07-2021 10:44AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

Ireland as a society cannot play when it is injured. Returning to play before you're ready will likely mean a further worse injury lay off.

Ireland is more like a Mezut Ozil, there is always some pissy little excuse not to train or play.

Stormyteacup · 05-07-2021 10:47AM

seamus wrote: »

The reopening of indoor dining last Summer, led directly to the surge in cases that required us to re-impose restrictions again in early October.

So, we would all agree that it would be foolish to just reopen indoor dining again in exactly the same way, because you'll just get the same results. And we're starting from a case load that's 10 times higher than it was last year.

In effect you're asking, "Why aren't we making the same mistakes we made last year?"

But this above is something I really can’t understand people getting behind. Cases were seeding through last Summer, as they were everywhere in Europe. And restrictions were imposed in Autumn, in various forms, in most EU countries as a wave began to surge. The timeline of the wave was influenced by the measures taken by different governments, but it followed a fairly similar pattern across Europe, and was ultimately unstoppable unless a country was operating a zero-covid policy.

So you’re advocating for our ridiculously costly and damaging restrictions between waves, while the majority of other countries get on with things as best they can ahead of another possible surge.

Do you really believe if another surge is coming it will be prevented by not allowing controlled indoor dining?? Public transport, private indoor gatherings, hotels, schools and colleges all open - but no, it’s keeping indoor dining closed that will hold this virus at bay?

Snooker Loopy · 05-07-2021 10:48AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ireland is more like a Mezut Ozil, there is always some pissy little excuse not to train or play.

The fact that you treat an ongoing pandemic that has killed at least 4 million people, and in reality almost certainly several more million, as "a pissy little excuse", does not demonstrate any sort of serious consideration of issues, it demonstrates the opposite.

batman_oh · 05-07-2021 10:48AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But this above is something I really can’t understand people getting behind. Cases were seeding through last Summer, as they were everywhere in Europe. And restrictions were imposed in Autumn, in various forms, in most EU countries as a wave began to surge. The timeline of the wave was influenced by the measures taken by different governments, but it followed a fairly similar pattern across Europe, and was ultimately unstoppable unless a country was operating a zero-covid policy.

So you’re advocating for our ridiculously costly and damaging restrictions between waves, while the majority of other countries get on with things as best they can ahead of another possible surge.

Do you really believe if another surge is coming it will be prevented by not allowing controlled indoor dining?? Public transport, private indoor gatherings, hotels, schools and colleges all open - but no, it’s keeping indoor dining closed that will hold this virus at bay?

Hotel bars and restaurants don't spread the virus. Only non hotel bars and restaurants do. Follow the science

Snooker Loopy · 05-07-2021 10:50AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But this above is something I really can’t understand people getting behind. Cases were seeding through last Summer, as they were everywhere in Europe. And restrictions were imposed in Autumn, in various forms, in most EU countries as a wave began to surge. The timeline of the wave was influenced by the measures taken by different governments, but it followed a fairly similar pattern across Europe, and was ultimately unstoppable unless a country was operating a zero-covid policy.

So you’re advocating for our ridiculously costly and damaging restrictions between waves, while the majority of other countries get on with things as best they can ahead of another possible surge.

Do you really believe if another surge is coming it will be prevented by not allowing controlled indoor dining?? Public transport, private indoor gatherings, hotels, schools and colleges all open - but no, it’s keeping indoor dining closed that will hold this virus at bay?

What you don't do is pour petrol on the flames of an already developing situation.

That's exactly what we did last Christmas.

DarkJager21 · 05-07-2021 10:53AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

The same people who are demanding opening up now are the same people who demanded opening up last summer, last autumn, and last Christmas, and have been ranting ever since.

The let it rip merchants.

Forgive me if I don't have the same confidence in them as you do.

You mean the people who are demanding their lives back? How dare they want to return to normality :rolleyes:

kwestfan08 · 05-07-2021 10:54AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

What you don't do is pour petrol on the flames of an already developing situation.

That's exactly what we did last Christmas.

So when would you open then? Like a proper 2019 opening no restrictions whatsoever.

Fandymo · 05-07-2021 10:57AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The “Covid loves to party “ line...

ie to break it down, covid easily spreads

in warm humid enclosed settings

with poor ventilation

Lots of common surfaces and ppl handing glasses to each other and money changing hands

- such as pubs and bars -

especially when the punters are NOT observing distancing

Even more so if ppl have consumed alcohol (in a bar in ireland it’s pretty likely come on) are wasted and falling all over themselves and each other bellowing and singing etc

Now, Regardless of TH personal views on alcohol,

It’s kinda true though?

Pubs would be almost perfect spreading locations for this virus.

And yet hotel bars are allowed open? Strange that this deadly virus can tell the difference between a hotel bar and a pub bar!!

Snooker Loopy · 05-07-2021 10:59AM

DarkJager21 wrote: »

You mean the people who are demanding their lives back? How dare they want to return to normality :rolleyes:

I'm sure my father would demand his life back if he could, but Covid took him.

Fandymo · 05-07-2021 11:00AM

shocksy wrote: »

If it wasn't known before (however, it was to many) the covid pandemic, this country has a really serious drinking problem. I await the posters who will jump on this post. However, no matter what way people try and defend it, it is true and really disturbing. There are people frothing at the mouth waiting to be able to drink indoors again and get absolutely stupid drunk again. The whole "social argument" doesn't cut it. It's a lame excuse. There are plenty of other ways to be social. However, all most people can think of doing in this country to be social is getting $hit faced drunk. It's pure desperation in a way that alcohol is their only "fun" way of being social with friends and family etc. It's a sad state of affairs when all people can think of doing is getting into a pub again. Thankfully I don't fit into this part of the population. I'm not anti drinking before anyone says it, but there is serious alcohol addiction in this country that many won't dare admit too. There is also a major drinking problem in this country to the extent that certain cohorts of society won't acknowledge it and will fight to the death on internet forums to deny it exists.

Here was me reading the actual data that we were mid table in Europe for alcohol consumption and dropping year on year. You’ve opened my eyes Shocksy, the EU is obviously lying to us.

Hold on, am I drunk typing this?

seamus · 05-07-2021 11:01AM

FlubberJones wrote: »

There were no vaccines last year, we're not comparing like for like

Sure. But that doesn't alter the fact that we know opening indoor dining will increase cases. Vaccines mean that the nature of this increase is unknown, but it would be foolish to take the "ah sure be grand" approach.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

So you’re advocating for our ridiculously costly and damaging restrictions between waves, while the majority of other countries get on with things as best they can ahead of another possible surge.

I'm simply saying that the stated goal, as it has been since the end of February, is to avoid having to roll back any restrictions.
Opening indoor dining now, only to have to close it again in 4-6 weeks would be considerably more damaging and costly.
We're expecting another wave to be imminent. The plan is to vaccinate as fast as possible and ride this one through without having to close anything.

"Sure there's a wave coming anyway, we may as well open up before it hits", is a new one, I'll give you that.

niallo27 · 05-07-2021 11:01AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

The same people who are demanding opening up now are the same people who demanded opening up last summer, last autumn, and last Christmas, and have been ranting ever since.

The let it rip merchants.

Forgive me if I don't have the same confidence in them as you do.

So would you have stayed in level 5 for the last 18 months. People trying to make a living and you are calling it ranting.

Fandymo · 05-07-2021 11:03AM

shocksy wrote: »

I'm not anti drinking before anyone says it, but there is serious alcohol addiction in this country.

shocksy wrote: »

The answer is yes. It would also help the serious drinking problem this country has.

Yeah, definitely not anti drinking haha. The mask slipped literally 1 post later.

DarkJager21 · 05-07-2021 11:05AM

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

I'm sure my father would demand his life back if he could, but Covid took him.

Sorry for your loss, but it doesn't change my point.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings