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Random Fitness Questions

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Comments

  • #1302
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    How you warm up is one thing, the other and more important side is building up more redundancy in this case knees so that your activities dont lead to knee pain

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1303
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Joints can make all kinds of weird and wonderful noises. Not an issue unless you’re experiencing pain.

    35 year olds can lift heavy. 90 year olds can lift heavy. Heavy is relative.


  • #1304
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    markmoto wrote: »
    If you're over 35yo and not train professionally doing less than 20 reps first set that's too heavy.

    I would like to see your justification for this.


    Because, IMO is a gross generalisation and nobody likes those.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #1305
    markmoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Brian? wrote: »
    I would like to see your justification for this.


    Because, IMO is a gross generalisation and nobody likes those.

    Age-related changes in collagen.
    Declines can cause ligaments tendons bones and cartilage to become less flexible and more brittle over time.


  • #1306
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    markmoto wrote: »
    Age-related changes in collagen.
    Declines can cause ligaments tendons bones and cartilage to become less flexible and more brittle over time.

    That’s correct. But why randomly pick 20 reps and 35 years old?

    I’ve been training heavy for 20 years and see no reason to stop

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #1307
    markmoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Brian? wrote: »
    That’s correct. But why randomly pick 20 reps and 35 years old?

    I’ve been training heavy for 20 years and see no reason to stop

    You don't have to. My recommendation for over 35yo who at some point decide to change lifestyle and go to the gym first time in years.

    And if you think 35 is random I am sure you can do little research. Perhaps start with bodybuilding.com forum.

    Full stop no further replies for the same question, sorry.


  • #1308
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    markmoto wrote: »
    Age-related changes in collagen.
    Declines can cause ligaments tendons bones and cartilage to become less flexible and more brittle over time.

    Yes, but that simply means that training has to be matched to their ability levels. No evidence to support the idea that older people can’t lift weights that are highly challenging. For an eldery woman that could be an empty barbell. It’s still heavy for her.


  • #1309
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Noted source of scientific literature, the bodybuilding.com forums.


  • #1310
    markmoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    People only hear what they want to hear. Your life your choice.


  • #1311
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I really don't understand the "professionally" part. Like what I can workout for two more years and then bam I need to be able to do 20 reps of the weight because I'm not a soccer player or wrestler?


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  • #1312
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Not only is lifting safe after 35, it is safe at any age provided it is approached in an appropriate manner.

    I'd go further than just saying resistance training is safe, I'd say barbell training is safe. You can scale or modify exercises as required and be precise in terms of loading, sets, reps and training frequency.

    I am laughing as I type this at the idea that many 35 year old are contraindicated from continuing - or even beginning - resistance training, but actually my experience is that even people 55 and up can do it safely.

    There is no more potent way to improve strength, muscular endurance, balance and body composition than include resistance training in a fitness regimen.

    The sooner someone begins the sooner they can address major issues for the older population around bone and muscle loss - particularly older women. It's crucial for encouraging independent living and resistance to accident and injury in an older population.

    We're all on a trajectory of decline as we get older. Losing muscle mass, losing bone density, our cartilage deteriorating and various changes in hormones and endocrine function. But that's precisely why we should train, comical to suggest that the situation we are trying to mitigate should be the reason we are precluded from training.

    What is lacking isn't even evidence that resistance training is safe and beneficial to populations far older than 35, what's lacking is precisely how to train them best, and long term outcomes.


  • #1313
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    markmoto wrote: »
    You don't have to. My recommendation for over 35yo who at some point decide to change lifestyle and go to the gym first time in years.

    And if you think 35 is random I am sure you can do little research. Perhaps start with bodybuilding.com forum.

    Full stop no further replies for the same question, sorry.

    If that’s your answer, I’m going to dismiss your opinion as nonsense.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #1314
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    markmoto wrote: »
    People only hear what they want to hear. Your life your choice.

    I hear lots of things. Which is why it’s important to challenge all opinions and look for supporting evidence. You don’t have any, so what you say can be dismissed easily.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #1315
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,368 ✭✭✭bladespin


    My orthopaedic consultant recommended recommended a higher rep range for joint health, she said 5-10 was fine, nothing like 20, she also said I could happily train until I didn't want to - age was not a limiter.
    Untitled Image

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • #1316
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    We start to lose muscle mass from 30 years of age onwards.
    Weightlifting and resistance training is absolutely indicated and advisable to counter act this. To suggest you can't lift heavy (which as said is subjective) is ridiculous and frankly bad advice.


  • #1317
    Mars Bar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,946 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    Brian? wrote: »
    If that’s your answer, I’m going to dismiss your opinion as nonsense.

    Fair play for not dismissing his opinion sooner. Some daft stuff written here the past few weeks.


  • #1318
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    Fair play for not dismissing his opinion sooner. Some daft stuff written here the past few weeks.

    Sometimes people struggle to get their point across, but they have something worth listening to. Not in this case it seems.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #1319
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    the baby bull elephant wrote: »
    Noted source of scientific literature, the bodybuilding.com forums.

    Makes a change from linking studies that they didn't understand and said different things to the point they were trying to make.


  • #1320
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    new2tri19 wrote: »
    I don't ever remember my knees been so noisy , just squatting down or walking down the stairs it's like a series of small crackling sounds . Is this a side effect of weight lifting , it wasn't that bad before lifting. There is zero pain in any position . Does anyone else suffer from this ?

    I was with a physio for something else a few years ago and was doing a squat and my knees were like bubble wrap being trampled on. He said unless it's sore, there's no issue.


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  • #1321
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    I was with a physio for something else a few years ago and was doing a squat and my knees were like bubble wrap being trampled on. He said unless it's sore, there's no issue.

    Conversely, my knees are silent and I’ve had 2 surgeries on the left

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #1322
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Brian? wrote: »
    Conversely, my knees are silent and I’ve had 2 surgeries on the left

    My right knee is noisier than my left and it's the left side I tore my LCL and MCL on.

    So basically noisy knees are healthy knees.


  • #1323
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    I was told about 12 years ago that the snap-crackle-pop noise in my right shoulder that comes and goes when I'm pressing was probably to do with cartilage, and that I should probably stop pressing overhead. Well, 12 years later, it still comes and goes, and still no pain. If the pain comes along in the next 12 years I will re-evaluate my position on overhead pressing I guess.

    I feel like there's content for a thread about misdiagnoses I have been offered by physios over the years. I think the most depressing was when a chap told me I was developing osteoarthritis in my hip. I think he must read the naked scepticism in my face, he kind of awkwardly trailed off and we finished the session in polite chit chat, half-entertaining the fiction that I was going to contact him to arrange for the multiple sessions of treatment that I "urgently" needed. Still waiting for that hip osteoarthritis to kick in. Maybe I'll get it when I'm 65 and he'll be like "I told you, mother****er..".


  • #1324
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Black Sheep wrote: »
    I was told about 12 years ago that the snap-crackle-pop noise in my right shoulder that comes and goes when I'm pressing was probably to do with cartilage, and that I should probably stop pressing overhead. Well, 12 years later, it still comes and goes, and still no pain. If the pain comes along in the next 12 years I will re-evaluate my position on overhead pressing I guess.

    I feel like there's content for a thread about misdiagnoses I have been offered by physios over the years. I think the most depressing was when a chap told me I was developing osteoarthritis in my hip. I think he must read the naked scepticism in my face, he kind of awkwardly trailed off and we finished the session in polite chit chat, half-entertaining the fiction that I was going to contact him to arrange for the multiple sessions of treatment that I "urgently" needed. Still waiting for that hip osteoarthritis to kick in. Maybe I'll get it when I'm 65 and he'll be like "I told you, mother****er..".

    Sad how many people (myself included) have had these experiences. To the extent that “go see a physio” as advice, can sometimes do people more harm than good.

    Only recently heard of one puncturing someone’s lung with a needle.


  • #1325
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    One of the biggest misconceptions people have is that arthritis or wear and tear equals pain.
    It doesn't.
    As long as you keep joints mobile and strong you can avoid a lot of pain despite what is seen on imaging.
    Orthos don't offer joint replacements because of what they see on imaging its based on the amount of pain a person has.
    Noises are meaningless unless there is pain with it.


  • #1326
    new2tri19
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    Sorry opened a bit of a can of worms with that question .thanks for the replies the consensus seems to be no pain no worry.
    The 20 rep suggestion for over 35's seems odd for many reasons enough that I'd have to discount it.


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  • #1327
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Is anyone else finding it hard to get motivated back in the gym? I'm just not interested anymore, but I normally love going and especially lifting!


  • #1328
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    Is anyone else finding it hard to get motivated back in the gym? I'm just not interested anymore, but I normally love going and especially lifting!

    Can't say I've found that. I did wonder if I would considering I've had to avoid squatting and deadlifting (avascular necrosis in the femoral head has left me with a lot of muscular imbalances to address) so training is very different and not really geared toward a goal of testing/competing. I thought I would struggle with that.

    But I'm a creature of habit anyway so I go cos it's the day i go.


  • #1329
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Can't say I've found that. I did wonder if I would considering I've had to avoid squatting and deadlifting (avascular necrosis in the femoral head has left me with a lot of muscular imbalances to address) so training is very different and not really geared toward a goal of testing/competing. I thought I would struggle with that.

    But I'm a creature of habit anyway so I go cos it's the day i go.

    So sorry to hear you've necrosis, that must be tough!! And thank you for the reply!
    Well done on keeping up the routine. Maybe I need to do the same !


  • #1330
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    So sorry to hear you've necrosis, that must be tough!! And thank you for the reply!
    Well done on keeping up the routine. Maybe I need to do the same !

    It's more the APT and assymetrical hips because of it that I have to address the next while :)

    Now training is just a lot more bodybuildery and I've always felt having a quantifiable goal to aim for.

    But, if I just plan to go Monday, Wednesday and Friday I'll just go because without having to think about it. Might go another day at the weekend but kinda unplanned

    And I've always found training/working out to be like a form of mindfulness for me.


  • #1331
    new2tri19
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭new2tri19


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    Is anyone else finding it hard to get motivated back in the gym? I'm just not interested anymore, but I normally love going and especially lifting!

    Yeah not so much the gym but I'm finding it hard to get back to the routine I and pre covid , this is the lowest amount of training I've done in years . But a closer look at my life I realised things have changed I haven't got the time I had previously mostly due to kids sports and hobbies , when I get home from work it's kids training the weekends are taking up with their matches. Then I've a toddler aswell so I just have to accept the limitations to training and that some days I'll be too tired to do what I want .
    So id say look at your life if your sitting around with nothing to do and don't feel motivated then maybe get a new plan or a goal .but if your just too tired from life Maybe don't be hard on yourself .


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  • #1332
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    Is anyone else finding it hard to get motivated back in the gym? I'm just not interested anymore, but I normally love going and especially lifting!

    I'm very motivated to go - but weirdly enough (for me at least) I've had 2 sessions now where I get to the gym, start lifting, and just have no interest or motivation to finish. This morning was the second of those sessions. I just wasn't feeling it at all, stopped mid-set and just did a bit of cardio instead and went home.

    This type of things has never happened me before - now it's happened twice in the space of a week. Usually the battle for me is actually getting out bed and getting to the gym. Once I do that, the rest is (or was) never a problem.


  • #1333
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Are there any higher rep hypertrophy routines people would recommend?

    On Westside for Skinny B*stards at the moment but 4 rounds in fancy a change


  • #1334
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,601 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    20 reps working sets. Jesus wept.


  • #1335
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    el Fenomeno wrote: »
    I'm very motivated to go - but weirdly enough (for me at least) I've had 2 sessions now where I get to the gym, start lifting, and just have no interest or motivation to finish. This morning was the second of those sessions. I just wasn't feeling it at all, stopped mid-set and just did a bit of cardio instead and went home.

    This type of things has never happened me before - now it's happened twice in the space of a week. Usually the battle for me is actually getting out bed and getting to the gym. Once I do that, the rest is (or was) never a problem.

    thats a pity alright, I find it useful to write everything down as Im doing them and tick them as done. Also I incrementally add weight to at least one set so in my head going home I can say to myself did more than then the previous session, onwards and upwards yada yada

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1336
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Finding leg day a bit weird with my rack at home.

    Barbell squat
    Barbell lunges
    Barbell calf raise
    Barbell kneeling squat

    Basically a bar on my back the entire routine. Are there some obvious exercises I'm missing?


  • #1337
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Finding leg day a bit weird with my rack at home.

    Barbell squat
    Barbell lunges
    Barbell calf raise
    Barbell kneeling squat

    Basically a bar on my back the entire routine. Are there some obvious exercises I'm missing?

    If you have a Barbell stick it in the corner of your room and use it as a landmine, good for squats, RDLs, rows and pressing

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1338
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    silverharp wrote: »
    If you have a Barbell stick it in the corner of your room and use it as a landmine, good for squats, RDLs, rows and pressing

    Oh yeah I forgot all about that. Will buy a tennis ball to cut open and cover the end of the bar before next leg day.


  • #1339
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,666 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Oh yeah I forgot all about that. Will buy a tennis ball to cut open and cover the end of the bar before next leg day.

    why have I not heard the tennis ball suggestion before? :pac: I was using a bunch of tea towels but still managed to mark the skirting

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1340
    Patsy167
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    Are there any higher rep hypertrophy routines people would recommend?

    On Westside for Skinny B*stards at the moment but 4 rounds in fancy a change

    Any number of great programs out there that you can transition to. Might be worth having a read through the descriptions here and see what catches your eye https://liftvault.com/programs/


  • #1341
    Cill94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Cill94


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    Are there any higher rep hypertrophy routines people would recommend?

    On Westside for Skinny B*stards at the moment but 4 rounds in fancy a change

    Boring But Big

    https://www.jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwendler-com/101077382-boring-but-big


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  • #1342
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Cill94 wrote: »
    Boring But Big

    https://www.jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwendler-com/101077382-boring-but-big

    Yeah did that earlier in the year, might do a few rounds of it, cheers.

    It's an enjoyable, simple workout

    I am an absolute **** for not pushing hard enough though


  • #1343
    Patsy167
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    This always deserves a mention for anyone looking for a general framework that they can adapt themselves - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2057311400


  • #1344
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    Are there any higher rep hypertrophy routines people would recommend?

    On Westside for Skinny B*stards at the moment but 4 rounds in fancy a change

    You could switch over to the “washed up meathead” template in WS4SB for a start.

    Conjugate in general is very flexible and you could do a conjugate bodybuilding set up, but needs a bit of know-how. Louis Simmons online club has a bodybuilding track, it’s pay by the month.

    After that yeah I would second the recommendation to look at Wendler 5/3/1 templates. Buy 5/3/1 Forever, has an absolute ton of programmes in there. If you want bodybuilding some of the templates with a lot of accessories are what you want.

    There’s Hybrid Build, another pay by month option.

    Probably some Barbell Medicine templates for hypertrophy might be of interest.


  • #1345
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Finding leg day a bit weird with my rack at home.

    Barbell squat
    Barbell lunges
    Barbell calf raise
    Barbell kneeling squat

    Basically a bar on my back the entire routine. Are there some obvious exercises I'm missing?

    I presume you’re doing deadlifts, RDL?

    For single leg you can do barbell step ups, barbell split squats.

    To be honest, this is where a few heavy DBs and kettlebells come in handy, for variations’ sake.


  • #1346
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Black Sheep wrote: »
    You could switch over to the “washed up meathead” template in WS4SB for a start.

    Conjugate in general is very flexible and you could do a conjugate bodybuilding set up, but needs a bit of know-how. Louis Simmons online club has a bodybuilding track, it’s pay by the month.

    After that yeah I would second the recommendation to look at Wendler 5/3/1 templates. Buy 5/3/1 Forever, has an absolute ton of programmes in there. If you want bodybuilding some of the templates with a lot of accessories are what you want.

    There’s Hybrid Build, another pay by month option.

    Probably some Barbell Medicine templates for hypertrophy might be of interest.

    If we're including paid programmes the Stronger by Science Hypertrophy template is available for either $5/10 I forget which and comes with four or five other templates so if very good value for money and definitely fulfill's the high rep criteria.

    Also if you're a sadomasochist, Deep Water is worth a look.


  • #1347
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    the baby bull elephant wrote: »
    If we're including paid programmes the Stronger by Science Hypertrophy template is available for either $5/10 I forget which and comes with four or five other templates so if very good value for money and definitely fulfill's the high rep criteria.

    Also if you're a sadomasochist, Deep Water is worth a look.

    My neighbour did Deep Water, he still has nightmares.

    What I’m doing right now is actually pretty bodybuilding-y.

    4 day split
    Arms day
    Lower body
    Chest / triceps / shoulders
    Back / biceps

    When I’m done it’s back to conjugate most likely.


  • #1348
    Khari Whining Sprint
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Khari Whining Sprint


    Had to look up deep water there

    "It’s 6 weeks long, 5 days a week. 4 days in a row of lifting. Two Deep Water days with a main lower/upper body movement done for 10 sets of 10 with about 54% of your 1RM. You progress by keeping weight, sets and reps the same and reducing rest times between sets from 4 to 2 minutes."

    Vom


  • #1349
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Khari Whining Sprint wrote: »
    Had to look up deep water there

    "It’s 6 weeks long, 5 days a week. 4 days in a row of lifting. Two Deep Water days with a main lower/upper body movement done for 10 sets of 10 with about 54% of your 1RM. You progress by keeping weight, sets and reps the same and reducing rest times between sets from 4 to 2 minutes."

    Vom

    That’s Deep Water Beginner as well!

    The beginner does refer to experience with Deep Water though, not experience of lifting.


  • #1350
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    the baby bull elephant wrote: »
    That’s Deep Water Beginner as well!

    The beginner does refer to experience with Deep Water though, not experience of lifting.

    Deep Water appears very very interesting...


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  • #1351
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    Deep Water appears very very interesting...

    There's a few spreadsheets floating about the internet I think and if you go to Jon Andersen's Instagram bio you can get the 90 page detailing the Deep Water philosophy and actual programmes for free

    https://amp.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/9rxz7x/program_reviewjon_andersens_deep_water_beginner/

    That review is what first got me interested in it but I must admit I haven't got to actually run it yet. I get very little time in which to run something of my choice at that intensity. Currently doing Building the Monolith so Deep Water probably has to wait until next summer for me.


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