What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

robinph · 02-07-2021 1:47pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

There is now an Indian variant (ha) of this vaccine and it’s not approved for Eu green pass which will cause confusion for 5million uk people potentially

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/eu-vaccine-passport-excludes-5m-britons-given-indian-made-astrazeneca/

Exactly the same vaccine, just the Indian factory hasn't been approved by the EU yet. Nothing at all to suggest there is any difference between the product that's been put in people's arms.

brickster69 · 02-07-2021 1:50pm

And then believe it or not they take them to court, try to bankrupt them, because they wanted more of what they spent months trashing.

If it was not so serious you would die of fu##ing laughter.

Christy42 · 02-07-2021 2:24pm

robinph wrote: »

Exactly the same vaccine, just the Indian factory hasn't been approved by the EU yet. Nothing at all to suggest there is any difference between the product that's been put in people's arms.

Pretty sure the burden of proof here goes the other way.

robinph · 02-07-2021 2:26pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Until it this “strain” is approved by EMA we only have your word that these vaccines are exactly the same and no corners were cut.

There was already plenty of examples of SputnikV that was delivered to various countries was not same vaccine as what was published.

Why are you using the terms "variant" and "strain" in relation to a vaccine made in a different factory? Clearly trying to make subtle insinuations that a vaccine manufactured in India is actually some kind of new virus infection.

The vaccine is approved in the UK and other countries for supply from the Indian manufacturing facility. Unless you have something to show its different stop misrepresenting what the situation with the pending EU approval of the factory actually means.

robinph · 02-07-2021 3:41pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

What do you propose we use to describe these batches of AZ vaccine being distributed under a completely different name? Cohort?

UK is not a member of EU we don’t know if what they approve is safe and if the approval there was granted for political not scientific reasons

If all is as you claim it is the they can apply for approval and get it fairly quickly, nothing to worry about right?

Until then those cohort of Brits who got the Indian version of the AZ vaccine and want to travel to Eu can either get approved vaccinations or a pcr test or they can stay home.

The vaccine was approved in the UK whilst they were still part of the EU system, no indication that anything untoward happened with its approval.

If you have something other than just a hatred of anything the UK does in relation to this vaccine then why not tell us. There is nothing odd going on, nothing to suggest anything is wrong, just the EU hasn't been getting Astra Zeneca supplies from India so not been any reason for them to approve that facility.

At the moment international differences between supplys and approvals are throwing up a few complicating in various directions. In very short time I'd expect any vaccine status to be defined by nothing more than if your home country says you've been vaccinated then the destination country will accept that, much like the way passports work by someones home country issuing it and the destination just accepts it as valid. Nobody is going to care what vaccine you got in whatever country once the world figures themselves out and everywhere is vaccinated to a decent level.

At the moment there are a few people who happened to get a particular batch who might not be able to travel to the EU, nobody has yet decided if that is actually what is going to happen though. Just a scary story in The Telegraph trying to make out the EU are doing something bad to the UK holiday makers.

RobMc59 · 02-07-2021 3:56pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Literally in the first sentence of the article it says

“The jab, authorised in the UK in February”

Many people who got AZ in uk don’t know exactly which batch they got

Are we supposed to trust a third country who have shown time and time again they can not be trusted and whose leadership behaves in a reckless fashion with our health and lives? If those who got it are not sure they can always get a PCR test and maybe write their MPs asking why batches were mixed up

Everyone who gets any covid vaccine in the UK gets a card stating which vaccine it is and its batch number.This method is used for both jabs.

fin12 · 02-07-2021 4:05pm

What would happen if u had a first dose of AstraZeneca and then took the Johnson one ? Would it be too much vaccine ? Have they said which ones u can mix n match ? Just u can get the Johnson one now in pharmacies.

L1011 · 02-07-2021 4:09pm

brickster69 wrote: »

And then believe it or not they take them to court, try to bankrupt them, because they wanted more of what they spent months trashing.

If it was not so serious you would die of fu##ing laughter.

Wanting someone to actually meet the contract they agreed to is not the same as your spin here.

02-07-2021 7:04pm

fin12 wrote: »

What would happen if u had a first dose of AstraZeneca and then took the Johnson one ? Would it be too much vaccine ? Have they said which ones u can mix n match ? Just u can get the Johnson one now in pharmacies.

That would be crazy to do that I would think?

Do you know anyone in the world who has done what your proposing?

In Romania they wont take vaccines, meanwhile in ireland, pick n mix.

02-07-2021 8:38pm

fin12 wrote: »

What would happen if u had a first dose of AstraZeneca and then took the Johnson one ? Would it be too much vaccine ? Have they said which ones u can mix n match ? Just u can get the Johnson one now in pharmacies.

You can't. Your vaccine record is linked to your PPS number. If you go to a pharmacy looking for Janssen, they'll look you up and see that you had AZ. You'll then be refused.

Tippbhoy1 · 02-07-2021 8:53pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Until it this “strain” is approved by EMA we only have your word that these vaccines are exactly the same and no corners were cut.

There was already plenty of examples of SputnikV that was delivered to various countries was not same vaccine as what was published.

It sounds to me like you are taking a very “purist” view of the NIP pharma validation

fin12 · 03-07-2021 12:16am

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/07/02/health/germany-covid-vaccines-mixing-intl/index.html

Looks like if u had the first shot of AstraZeneca, Germany recommending u take Pfizer or Moderna if u can’t take 2nd jab.

brendanwalsh · 03-07-2021 12:57pm

For anyone who doesn’t want to take the second AZ dose , My friend got a mixed dose of AZ first then Pfizer after getting a letter from her consultant.

03-07-2021 1:52pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/common-cold-could-assistin-fighting-off-coronavirus-40608146.html

T Cell immunity with AZ is under rated.

03-07-2021 2:07pm

brendanwalsh wrote: »

For anyone who doesn’t want to take the second AZ dose , My friend got a mixed dose of AZ first then Pfizer after getting a letter from her consultant.

I think you should set up a new thread for yourself to post on called the following:

I hate astrazeneca vaccine please only post negative things on this thread. Anything bordering remotely positive on said vaccine is definitely not welcome

brendanwalsh · 03-07-2021 2:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you should set up a new thread for yourself to post on called the following:

I hate astrazeneca vaccine please only post negative things on this thread. Anything bordering remotely positive on said vaccine is definitely not welcome

That’s not very constructive.
I’ve merely posted to update people that mixed vaccines are being administered in Ireland if patients insist and with your doctors approval. As I said I feel there are better vaccines out there and I’m not the only one who believes so. Plenty of people refused AZ first and second doses because they felt they were being sold short. Just because you don’t like that doesn’t mean it isn’t a fact. You could perhaps acknowledge the differences in vaccines instead of being the bleeding heart poster boy for AZ in Ireland. What’s your fixation with it out if interested?
Attack the post, not the poster.

03-07-2021 2:54pm

brendanwalsh wrote: »

That’s not very constructive.
I’ve merely posted to update people that mixed vaccines are being administered in Ireland if patients insist and with your doctors approval. As I said I feel there are better vaccines out there and I’m not the only one who believes so. Plenty of people refused AZ first and second doses because they felt they were being sold short. Just because you don’t like that doesn’t mean it isn’t a fact. You could perhaps acknowledge the differences in vaccines instead of being the bleeding heart poster boy for AZ in Ireland. What’s your fixation with it out if interested?
Attack the post, not the poster.

I have seen your posts on this thread, all them are very negative towards this vaccine?

Can you show me a post or can you bring yourself to say something positive about this vaccine?

I have posted positive and negative about this vaccine and other vaccines.

There is positives and negatives with all the vaccines.

Thats what a thread is about.

Your fixation is only how can I say something negative about AZ today.

You mentioned last week that Sarah Gilbert should feel shame for people that died of blood clots after taking AZ.

A relative of a person how died of a blood clot in UK came out and said take the vaccine.

25 million people in UK have taken this vaccine and you come on here as if they have taken poison.

99.99% of the population dont feel like that about this vaccine.

Your views on this vaccine are not balanced.

You pollute this thread.

In a constructive way I think you should set up a thread were you can be as negative about this vaccine as you like with other like minded posters.

Alot of posters on this thread have taken AZ (700K in ireland) and your basically saying to them they are idiots or have been duped.

I think you should be apologising for that post about Sarah Gilbert. Most reasonable people would think its actually disgusting.

McGiver · 03-07-2021 4:17pm

Wolf359f wrote:

I haven't seen a breakdown of the 2nd dose rate by the EMA, would you have a link, I'm curious what breakdowns they have for age/sex etc...

Check the EMA EU Pharmacovigilance website. All EU reported side effect reporting data is there.

I ran some data crunching and compared e.g. reported cases of anaphylactic shock or thrombocytopenia for both Pfizer-BioNtech and Oxford AstraZeneca.

Pfizer - 300M doses administered
AZ - 75M doses

Anaphylaxis - 2x likely for AZ in this dataset
Thrombocytopenia - 10x likely in this dataset

I didn't look into the CSVT though...

McGiver · 03-07-2021 4:19pm

topdecko wrote:

I have fielded calls from multiple people who have had extreme reactions to first dose AZ and under no circumstances will they take second dose of AZ. whilst the incidence of CVST and other clotting disorders is of the order of 1/200,000 i would suspect significant reactions and exaggerated immune response are many times higher. Other european countries are mixing and matching vaccines and we will here at some point. The volte face on the AZ vaccine has to be explained to the youth and that it is not ideal but a pragmatic response to emergence of this new variant. Very conflicting advice coming from NIAC at times.

Yes this is supported by EU Pharmacovigilance data. AZ an order of magnitude harsher than Pfizer in terms of side effects.

astrofool · 03-07-2021 4:41pm

brendanwalsh wrote: »

For anyone who doesn’t want to take the second AZ dose , My friend got a mixed dose of AZ first then Pfizer after getting a letter from her consultant.

Your friend got a consultant to medically recommend a different vaccine for a non medical reason?

What's the name of this consultant? Lay out your cards here.

Wolf359f · 03-07-2021 5:21pm

McGiver wrote: »

I don't trust current HMG figures, especially in relation to this very much politicised vaccine. It's been used by the Johnsonist regime as a propaganda tool to show "benefits of Brexit" (of course a lie and nonsense).

EMA estimates the CVST incidence at 1 in 200,000.

McGiver wrote: »

Check the EMA EU Pharmacovigilance website. All EU reported side effect reporting data is there.

I ran some data crunching and compared e.g. reported cases of anaphylactic shock or thrombocytopenia for both Pfizer-BioNtech and Oxford AstraZeneca.

Pfizer - 300M doses administered
AZ - 75M doses

Anaphylaxis - 2x likely for AZ in this dataset
Thrombocytopenia - 10x likely in this dataset

I didn't look into the CSVT though...

OP was concerned about CVST risk for their second dose, I supplied evidence that the risk is lower on the second dose. You don't trust the UK data and quote the EMA risk. So where is the EMA stating the risk of CVST on a second dose at 1 in 200,000?

brendanwalsh · 03-07-2021 5:36pm

astrofool wrote: »

Your friend got a consultant to medically recommend a different vaccine for a non medical reason?

What's the name of this consultant? Lay out your cards here.

The medical reason is my friend is very high risk under the age of 30 on immunosuppressants and is entitled to a mRNA vaccine to offer higher protection.

You can PM me if you need further information on the consultant, although I suspect you want it for nefarious reasons.

Friend was told at the MVC that a few people have got mixed regimen.

astrofool · 03-07-2021 8:40pm

brendanwalsh wrote: »

The medical reason is my friend is very high risk under the age of 30 on immunosuppressants and is entitled to a mRNA vaccine to offer higher protection.

You can PM me if you need further information on the consultant, although I suspect you want it for nefarious reasons.

Friend was told at the MVC that a few people have got mixed regimen.

That medical reason doesn't make sense, there is virtually no difference between AZ and mRNA for protection and AZ may end up having the longer lasting protection, it also doesn't make sense for immuno suppressed as mRNA is more dependent on the immune system working well to be effective (due to the spike protein production step). There's some important details being left out here.

I can see a mixed regime being recommended when there has been a reaction to the first vaccine dose, but this can be equally mRNA to AZ as AZ to mRNA.

03-07-2021 8:58pm

astrofool wrote: »

That medical reason doesn't make sense, there is virtually no difference between AZ and mRNA for protection and AZ may end up having the longer lasting protection, it also doesn't make sense for immuno suppressed as mRNA is more dependent on the immune system working well to be effective (due to the spike protein production step). There's some important details being left out here.

I can see a mixed regime being recommended when there has been a reaction to the first vaccine dose, but this can be equally mRNA to AZ as AZ to mRNA.

Explain what you mean about Astra being better than an mrna for the immune depressed
Are there some new papers on this
My doctor and specialist told me The opposite and insisted on Pfizer
You have me worried now

astrofool · 03-07-2021 9:28pm

Marine Layer wrote: »

Explain what you mean about Astra being better than an mrna for the immune depressed
Are there some new papers on this
My doctor and specialist told me The opposite and insisted on Pfizer
You have me worried now

They're just doing clinical trials at the moment:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04805216?term=BNT162b2&cond=immunocompromised&draw=2&rank=5

There's no data saying one type of vaccine is better than the other for immuno suppressed (hence surprising why a consultant would put their medical opinion behind this).

Given the mechanisms at play (and this is my opinion only), the adenovector vaccines would likely be able to provoke an immune response easier (here's a virus with a spike, react to it) vs. mRNA (here's instructions to make a spike which you will then react to), in the real world, there is likely negligible difference between the two., but it will be interesting to see what the studies show.

There is also a good chance that the protein based Novavax ends up being the vaccine of choice for immunosuppressed, but again, that's pure speculation on my part (this is just based on historically what has worked).

Stark · 03-07-2021 9:32pm

astrofool wrote: »

Given the mechanisms at play (and this is my opinion only), the adenovector vaccines would likely be able to provoke an immune response easier (here's a virus with a spike, react to it) vs. mRNA (here's instructions to make a spike which you will then react to), in the real world, there is likely negligible difference between the two., but it will be interesting to see what the studies show.

The adenovector vaccines are similar to the mRNA ones in that they both delivery mRNA payloads in order for your own ribosomes to produce the actual proteins. Main difference is Pfizer/Moderna use lipid nanoparticles to carry the mRNA whereas AZ/J&J include the mRNA in a viral carrier.

03-07-2021 9:35pm

astrofool wrote: »

They're just doing clinical trials at the moment:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04805216?term=BNT162b2&cond=immunocompromised&draw=2&rank=5

There's no data saying one type of vaccine is better than the other for immuno suppressed (hence surprising why a consultant would put their medical opinion behind this).

Given the mechanisms at play (and this is my opinion only), the adenovector vaccines would likely be able to provoke an immune response easier (here's a virus with a spike, react to it) vs. mRNA (here's instructions to make a spike which you will then react to), in the real world, there is likely negligible difference between the two., but it will be interesting to see what the studies show.

There is also a good chance that the protein based Novavax ends up being the vaccine of choice for immunosuppressed, but again, that's pure speculation on my part (this is just based on historically what has worked).

Thats fine but please don't be giving your non medical opinion here
I'm not saying that to offend you
Its just that it's dangerous because it might worry people
People are best not asking about friends conditions here either,it's for their doctors and frankly I trust mine

astrofool · 03-07-2021 9:46pm

Marine Layer wrote: »

Thats fine but please don't be giving your non medical opinion here
I'm not saying that to offend you
Its just that it's dangerous because it might worry people
People are best not asking about friends conditions here either,it's for their doctors and frankly I trust mine

Noted, I was trying to get details from a poster who has, frankly, been hysterically anti-AZ in the face of data to the contrary. If you are immuno-compromised, do pay attention to that study, results are expected around November.

Edit: I would also note that all content in the forum is an opinion unless backed by a study, sometimes an educated opinion, sometimes not, go and look at the conspiracy forum for the amount of running away posters do when asked to provide some evidence for their theories.

secman · 03-07-2021 11:18pm

Myself and my wife both had side effects from first dose of AZ. We have now both received the 2nd dose with absolutely no side effects at all, not even a sore arm. Night and Day difference.

loughside · 04-07-2021 11:44am

The Moderna vaccine has been offered here now,... anyone know if this is a pfizer or an AZ type?

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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