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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #2402
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Why are people still being allowed to drive motor vehicles, given the near certainty that 'someone somewhere will need to be hospitalized'?


    Surely we have established that this is the metric by which we are assessing risk in this country?


  • #2403
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Why are people still being allowed to drive motor vehicles, given the near certainty that 'someone somewhere will need to be hospitalized'?

    Or cycle, or rock climbing, or swimming, or almost every other thing people do.

    Everything in life involves some level of risk. The thing we seem to have forgotten is the essential need for personal responsibility and decision making based on our individual assessment of that risk to our wellbeing.


  • #2404
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Why are people still being allowed to drive motor vehicles, given the near certainty that 'someone somewhere will need to be hospitalized'?


    Surely we have established that this is the metric by which we are assessing risk in this country?

    Why bother even leaving the house. Always a risk of death


  • #2405
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭Allinall


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Why are people still being allowed to drive motor vehicles, given the near certainty that 'someone somewhere will need to be hospitalized'?


    Surely we have established that this is the metric by which we are assessing risk in this country?

    We haven't.


  • #2406
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    walus wrote: »
    Looking at the developments of the last two weeks, ff the end goal here isn't zero covid, and we were told it isn't, what is it then?
    Does anybody among the 'men in high castle' actually know at this stage?
    The end goal here is herd immunity, or as close as we can get to it.

    Once we've topped out the number of people who can and will take the vaccine, there won't be any choice except to move on with our lives.

    This will obviously come with some requirement to have controls on inbound travel (since vaccination everywhere will not be evenly spread), and may also include some ongoing level of control in high-risk environments such as nursing homes and hospitals.


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  • #2407
    Ballynally
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 214 ✭✭Ballynally


    According to the ECDC:"the 14-day notification rate is between 75 and 200 and the test positivity rate is less than 4%" (orange list)
    That is where Ireland is at the moment.
    We are still on the orange list and ok to travel (green/orange as opposed to red, dark red).
    14 day rate has been creeping up to 100+ but test positivity rate steady week on week at around 2.5%.


  • #2408
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭prunudo


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Or cycle, or rock climbing, or swimming, or almost every other thing people do.

    Everything in life involves some level of risk. The thing we seem to have forgotten is the essential need for personal responsibility and decision making based on our individual assessment of that risk to our wellbeing.


    I think as a nation though we are more fearful of risk compared to other nations than we realise, and covid is bringing that to the surface.
    You tell someone in Ireland you ride a motorbike and they nearly recall in horror at how dangerous it is or can't wait to tell you some story about their uncles neighbours friend who was killed or seriously injured off one back in 80s or whenever. Now look at the UK and rest of Europe and the volume of motorbike/scooter riders, people don't give it a second glance.

    Anyway, its ot but I think it can explain how so many are happy to lap up the fear and hysteria being spread by media and 'the experts'.


  • #2409
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Heard Ronan Glynn say on Newstalk this morning that we're currently running at 10 Covid hospitalizations a day. How can this be when the hospital numbers have been pretty steady for a few weeks now?


  • #2410
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Why bother even leaving the house. Always a risk of death

    Falls down stairs account for a surprisingly large number of injuries/deaths each year. Not safe at home either.


  • #2411
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    Heard Ronan Glynn say on Newstalk this morning that we're currently running at 10 Covid hospitalizations a day. How can this be when the hospital numbers have been pretty steady for a few weeks now?

    He's either lying or the hospital data provided by the HSE is lies.


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  • #2412
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Falls down stairs account for a surprisingly large number of injuries/deaths each year. Not safe at home either.


    Staying in bed might be the best option then except that people die in bed also.


  • #2413
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭the kelt


    https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/0617/1228811-delta-variant-ireland-philip-nolan/

    Interesting read going back in time.

    So this unbelievably dangerous, hugely transmissible hurricane is in the country already at this stage some 11 weeks plus and……

    More so some 11 weeks ago the uk had 60% of its cases being the delta variant and with indoors hospitality open, crowds at matches etc etc have seen what upsurge in deaths and hospitalisations again?

    Sure they had more vaccinated by then but compared to the % we have vaccinated now??? Sure aren’t we the best little country in the world for getting our arms jabbed so we are!

    So I will leave it one quote from the piece.

    It remains a black cloud, but the data provided indicates it is a thankfully one a little smaller than many had thought. At least for now.

    This was a week before the “greatest hurricane ever appeared on the horizon” well in Ireland anyway and nowhere else it seems.

    Do even the most loyal defenders not look at this and think, here hold on a minute, let’s just ask a few questions of this.


  • #2414
    A Shaved Duck?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭A Shaved Duck?


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    He's either lying or the hospital data provided by the HSE is lies.

    Or the recovery rates are such that the numbers remain static, its really beyond a joke the lack of any logic.


  • #2415
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    Heard Ronan Glynn say on Newstalk this morning that we're currently running at 10 Covid hospitalizations a day. How can this be when the hospital numbers have been pretty steady for a few weeks now?

    Roughly the same amount of people will be discharged each day as those admitted, if the numbers remain steady.

    So 10 hospitalizations, and 10 discharges.


  • #2416
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    With the youngest population in Europe and our rate of vaccine take-up, one would imagine Ireland would be the first county to see a return to full normality.

    Instead we are lagging way behind, crippling our economy and building up a mountain of debt.

    Maybe some journalists would like to ask few questions about this if they can find a bit of time away from the constant fear-mongering and hysteria.


  • #2417
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    Heard Ronan Glynn say on Newstalk this morning that we're currently running at 10 Covid hospitalizations a day. How can this be when the hospital numbers have been pretty steady for a few weeks now?

    I would imagine based on Uk data that hospital stays are extremely short now due to age and vaccination. 24 hours is average stay in Uk now so maybe we are experiencing the same revolving door effect here keeping the numbers steady.


  • #2418
    mikekerry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 633 ✭✭✭mikekerry


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Both Minister Donnelly and Deputy CMO Dr Ronan Glynn coming across well on morning ireland this morning.

    Well briefed, giving clear responses, acknowledging frustrations but remaining hopeful and confident

    "Well briefed, giving clear responses" are never sentences that you can associate with that pair.
    Try "And once again Glynnn and donnelly have lied and and spoofed their way through another interview".


  • #2419
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Allinall wrote: »
    Roughly the same amount of people will be discharged each day as those admitted, if the numbers remain steady.

    So 10 hospitalizations, and 10 discharges.

    According to the HSE dashboard of the people being admitted to hospital in the last 2 weeks there was only 1 day where 10 or more were admitted to hospital. Some days it's been as low as 2 and average around 6. Glynn is spoofing or else the HSE is lying.


  • #2420
    PalLimerick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Its very hard not to advise young people that the best thing they could do for their future is to move to the UK, a place that unlike Ireland actively wants to take the pandemic noose off their neck.

    Ireland has made it quite clear that it doesn't give a **** about its kids, if it wanted to intentionally sabotage their futures it couldn't have done that any better than it has in recent years.

    Now the kids look at a place that is a world apart in terms of intent and energy to get something done. Yes Brexit was a cluster**** and a huge mistake but the UK never hid under their beds in the same fashion as the cowardly Irish have, they have always been pumping to get going again and I think a lot of young people will see that and desire that.

    Yet again I can see another huge brain drain of our youth emigrating and going to places that will give them better opportunities.

    You forgot to add *in your opinion, Brexit was a clusterxxxx and huge mistake. It wasn't for the majority of "Brits ".


  • #2421
    FlubberJones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭FlubberJones


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    With the youngest population in Europe and our rate of vaccine take-up, one would imagine Ireland would be the first county to see a return to full normality.

    Instead we are lagging way behind, crippling our economy and building up a mountain of debt.

    Maybe some journalists would like to ask few questions about this if they can find a bit of time away from the constant fear-mongering and hysteria.

    This was also something I thought about, seems that even though you are so young, the leaders of this country fear you are weak and are unable to cope with this illness... thus they wrap you all in cotton wool and shaft the entire economy and country at the same time.


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  • #2422
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,890 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    FlubberJones wrote: »
    This was also something I thought about, seems that even though you are so young, the leaders of this country fear you are weak and are unable to cope with this illness... thus they wrap you all in cotton wool and shaft the entire economy and country at the same time.

    Let's not forget we need levels that our underfunded health service can cope with


  • #2423
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    According to the HSE dashboard of the people being admitted to hospital in the last 2 weeks there was only 1 day where 10 or more were admitted to hospital. Some days it's been as low as 2 and average around 6. Glynn is spoofing or else the HSE is lying.

    Is the dashboard still showing admissions and discharges per day? I thought this was one of the things supposedly lost with the hack.

    Also how many people are admitted to hospital for any reason every day? If everyone of them is tested some are likely to be positive. There stay has nothing to do with covid, they'd be in hospital anyway for whatever reason brought them there in the first.


  • #2424
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    FlubberJones wrote: »
    This was also something I thought about, seems that even though you are so young, the leaders of this country fear you are weak and are unable to cope with this illness... thus they wrap you all in cotton wool and shaft the entire economy and country at the same time.

    Not many will admit it, but the ever expanding state is the reason for all of this. Governments would never have even tried this 50 years ago. Now, with so many people hooked on the need for state intervention for everything, something like this is easy to get away with. I'm not exactly a libertarian, but we'd all be better of if the state took a few steps away from the control that they have over our lives.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • #2425
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Long Covid" even mentioned :rolleyes:

    And what exactly is wrong with mentioning that?


  • #2426
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    With the youngest population in Europe and our rate of vaccine take-up, one would imagine Ireland would be the first county to see a return to full normality.

    Instead we are lagging way behind, crippling our economy and building up a mountain of debt.

    Maybe some journalists would like to ask few questions about this if they can find a bit of time away from the constant fear-mongering and hysteria.

    Genuinely laughed out loud. Our media is even more non-existent than our opposition.


  • #2427
    Ballynally
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 214 ✭✭Ballynally


    Allinall wrote: »
    Roughly the same amount of people will be discharged each day as those admitted, if the numbers remain steady.

    So 10 hospitalizations, and 10 discharges.

    I have been following the HSE portal w the official nrs f hospital admission, discharges and inpatients (and deaths).
    The data doesnt add up. It seems discharges have not been reported for some time while admissions have gone up but it isnt reflected in the covid19 inpatient nrs which, according to my calculation, should be higher than they are reported.
    What would be really good right now but isnt forthcoming, is the breakdown in age group, duration of hospital time, co morbidities.
    That is such an important indicator how Delta impacts in real time.
    But i dont even think the NHS comes out with that although ive seen stats comparing under 50s to over 50s, vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
    Vaccinated under 50s death rate btw is still.....0 (yes, you read that right).


  • #2428
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Why are people still being allowed to drive motor vehicles, given the near certainty that 'someone somewhere will need to be hospitalized'?


    Surely we have established that this is the metric by which we are assessing risk in this country?

    You may have heard, but there's a load of restrictions put in place when it comes to driving a motor vehicle, restrictions on who can drive, where it can be driven, at what speed it can be driven, mandatory safety equipment in the car, and mandatory use of it, more and more legal obligations on how the car is designed, and legal consequences if you don't adhere to these restrictions.

    You're looking for restrictions around Covid to be similar so?


  • #2429
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Klonker wrote: »
    Is the dashboard still showing admissions and discharges per day? I thought this was one of the things supposedly lost with the hack.

    Also how many people are admitted to hospital for any reason every day? If everyone of them is tested some are likely to be positive. There stay has nothing to do with covid, they'd be in hospital anyway for whatever reason brought them there in the first.

    Still shows admissions per day but curiously not discharges.


  • #2430
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    Heard Ronan Glynn say on Newstalk this morning that we're currently running at 10 Covid hospitalizations a day. How can this be when the hospital numbers have been pretty steady for a few weeks now?
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    According to the HSE dashboard of the people being admitted to hospital in the last 2 weeks there was only 1 day where 10 or more were admitted to hospital. Some days it's been as low as 2 and average around 6. Glynn is spoofing or else the HSE is lying.
    Average for the last two weeks is 7.1 per day.

    Over the last week that's up marginally to 7.4.

    The last two weeks has overall seen the lowest average number of hospitalisations in a long time. The signs are that it's trickling back up. The numbers are low enough though that a single day of 12 admissions could be a freak.


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  • #2431
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,449 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    seamus wrote: »
    Average for the last two weeks is 7.1 per day.

    Over the last week that's up marginally to 7.4.

    The last two weeks has overall seen the lowest average number of hospitalisations in a long time. The signs are that it's trickling back up. The numbers are low enough though that a single day of 12 admissions could be a freak.

    Glynn is lying or just "rounding up" to a nice even number of 10.


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