Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Russman · 30-06-2021 11:40AM

I think someone mentioned it on the previous thread before this one opened, but it would have been so much easier for NPHET to say something along the lines of:
"with this new Delta variant and its increased transmissibility, we don't think we have quite enough people vaccinated and need a few more weeks to get another half million jabs in arms before we think indoor drinking is safe" etc etc. All of which would seem relatively reasonable and a much easier sell to people imo, given the UK also slowed their reopening.

Now, granted, people would have then started whinging saying "show us the data, you can't say something like that without data bla, bla, Tony just hates something....." and we'd probably be back to where we are today anyway.

So we're still back to their modelling - is it cr^p or is it plausible ? bearing in mind the media have only focussed on worst case. Personally I'm not qualified to say their models are rubbish or not, but as an opinion, their "Optimistic" scenario seems not too outlandish. The worst case seems absolutely off the wall mad to me anyway.

Lucas Hood · 30-06-2021 11:41AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Which is a sensible system. If we have to implement something like this, why not use that system instead of the discriminatory bullshít being suggested here?

We look at the negatives of any system over the benefits.

Tony H is the most glass half empty person I've seen tbh.

timmyntc · 30-06-2021 11:42AM

charlie14 wrote: »

I would still have doubts about their reliability, even when being carried out by a professional, so I`m not sure I would find those carried out by an employee in a pharmacy any more reliable tbh.

Philip Nolan is that you?

The whole point of them is that they are fast, they do not have to be 100% accurate. Even if they only catch 50% of cases, thats 50% more than none.
The fast nature of them means we can do far far more, and would be testing people who otherwise would not be tested. Its no coincidence that countries employing antigen testing have lower case numbers than us. Widespread antigen testing breaks chains of transmission.

niallo27 · 30-06-2021 11:42AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Months ago the U.K. had much higher levels of those vaccinated than Ireland and used test event before increasing attendance numbers. Much the same as we are doing now with 8,000 in Croke Park this Saturday.

charlie14 wrote: »

I would agree with your point of keeping an eye on the U.K. for the next few weeks and then base how we go forward on that data, but on the antigen testing I do not see how that would work. Self administered tests are highly unreliable so I don`t see how they could be acceptable.

Trying to make sense of these posts, your first post says we must use our own test results and not use data off the UK, and then you come out and say we keep an eye on the UK in the next few weeks and base how we go on that data. So good news from the UK, we will ignore that, possible bad news, lets follow that data.

pc7 · 30-06-2021 11:43AM

It is just farcical at this stage, at this stage, myself, MrPC7 and my dad can eat indoors all vaccinated, but my mam would have to stand outside minding the kids (cause she only has 1 AZ and kids are young). You could NOT MAKE THIS SH!T Up!

Whatsisname · 30-06-2021 11:45AM

timmyntc wrote: »

Antigen tests are done in centers all over the place.
Pharmacies could administer them. Again, plenty of countries are doing this and have no trouble with it. It's only here in Ireland that we seem to make up a fictional scenario (self testing) and use that to justify not doing anything at all

Tbh, I only realised a while back that you don't do the test yourself in Ireland when my brother had to get tested. I've done 2 here in England, partner has done 2, both of us had to do it ourselves. Everyone else I know who's had a test over here had to do it themselves. These were PCR tests. You can order free antigen tests from the governments website, theres like 7 in a pack so obviously you do those yourself too.

PTH2009 · 30-06-2021 11:48AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0630/1232137-coronavirus-ireland-latest/

Headline says it all

Translates to 'Were scared ****ness a repeat of Christmas and NPHET know best'

Government submitted with fear by NPHET

TomTomTim · 30-06-2021 11:50AM

gozunda wrote: »

On a general point - that depends very much in where you are born - as to what "rights" you get to call your own

Atm we have temporary restrictions. They are not permanent.

Rights can change over time and new ones legislated for. Rights do however come with limits - for example my right to swing my fist - ends at your nose. But more importantly most rights come with obligations on a civil level for example I can drive down the motorway anytime I want - but I must do so safely and not endanger others.

That said there is no plan in place to force those who do not wish to take the vaccine - but those that don't will remain subject to relevant restrictions (or at least will be until all restrictions are removed) - whilst those that do - increasingly won't be.

You're right, they do come with limits, but a limitation of a right is a balancing act. Two rights will be weighed against each other, then the most "just" will win. Here though, I don't see what rights are in competition. I'm sure some would say that it's the right to safety vs the right to freedom, but I don't know where people find this right to safety. We have rights to freedom, which are clear cut, and not implied; yet I can't say the same about safety.

titan18 · 30-06-2021 11:52AM

charlie14 wrote: »

They slowed down their reopening at a higher level of vaccination than we are presently at. They didn`t just open up Wembley to 45,000 supporters at lower levels off vaccination without holding test events first.

What level of vaccination did they reopen at back in April and May. Do you remember the snooker finals back in April being packed as I do. We're not even close to where they are back then in regards reopening

VinLieger · 30-06-2021 11:53AM

RobitTV wrote: »

The UK is now considering dumping the 'vaccine pass'

And the morons here are going to spend the next two weeks trying to come up with something out of thin air.

Because the whole idea of it is logistically impossible let alone trying to police and enforce the fecking thing, the UK have figured this out cus theyve spent a month or two trying to make it work but can't, our lot haven't done a tap on this idea despite talking about it for months and now will spend 2-3 weeks before coming to the same conclusion as the UK

Red Silurian · 30-06-2021 11:53AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I think that was a fair enough viewpoint (and one I would have agreed with) back when NPHET were largely in line with experts in other countries. As it stands, they're looking increasingly out on their own. The stance on antigen testing defies all reason, and talk of indoor dining being pushed back until september seems unnecessarily negative.

We'll know for certain within a couple of weeks how serious delta is in the UK. Why not say "look, we're going to kep an eye on the UK to see how strong the link between hospitalisations/deaths and cases is. If that link is weak and there's no major risk to the population, we open on the 19th"?

I respectfully disagree, I say open for indoor dining (and drinking etc) on Monday, with the caveat that this specific move might need to be reversed in the next few weeks and we can say "at least we tried"

This idea of opening with a promise of not reversing is a bad one to make

namloc1980 wrote: »

They presented models to cabinet yesterday akin to a weather forecaster saying that the temperature tomorrow will be somewhere between -10 and +50 degrees and rain will range from 0mm to 1,000mm. If a meteorologist did that they'd be fired. Those models have seriously exposed their "expertise".

If I recall correctly they said in the next 3 months we would have deaths of between 150 and 2,170 on cases of 80k-680k? What figures are the other health experts in Europe etc finding?

charlie14 · 30-06-2021 11:53AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

In Denmark they have 800 pop up test centres all around the country. That's how it works. Or use the already there network of nationwide pharmacies to do them. Easy stuff but no chance we do that in this country. Makes far too much sense.

Not much difference in our population size so we would need the same number of these pop up test centres, plus employees in pharmacies proficient at administering these tests. Even disregarding the pharmacies, staffing these 800 pop up centres would create difficulties I would imagine.

timmyntc · 30-06-2021 11:56AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Not much difference in our population size so we would need the same number of these pop up test centres, plus employees in pharmacies proficient at administering these tests. Even disregarding the pharmacies, staffing these 800 pop up centres would create difficulties I would imagine.

That depends - in Denmark they need coronapas for barbers and more.
We could only use it for higher risk scenarios here - indoor dining/pubs etc
In that case you need much less testing and therefore less staff.
Local pharmacies could easily do all testing required.

titan18 · 30-06-2021 11:57AM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’ve emailed Coveney, McGrath, Martin and O’Laoghaire. I made it clear how disgusted I am at it all.

Ended up emailing the four of them there too. Doubt it'll do anything or that they'll even read it, but said I might as well add one unopened email to their queue.

Sweet.Science · 30-06-2021 11:58AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Perhaps because it may not be always advisable to follow the results of others when a later variable becomes known.
The India variant has slowed down the U.K. reopening and had it been present when they did their test events, then their conclusions may have been much different on attendance numbers.

What are you talking about ? We are literally sitting back and seeing how other countries get on with this new variant.

They've had events since this new one . Are you saying delta only came about after all the events they have had lately ?

namloc1980 · 30-06-2021 11:58AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Not much difference in our population size so we would need the same number of these pop up test centres, plus employees in pharmacies proficient at administering these tests. Even disregarding the pharmacies, staffing these 800 pop up centres would create difficulties I would imagine.

So we're special? Denmark can do it, but for us Irish, tis impossible.

charlie14 · 30-06-2021 12:01PM

titan18 wrote: »

What level of vaccination did they reopen at back in April and May. Do you remember the snooker finals back in April being packed as I do. We're not even close to where they are back then in regards reopening

Are you not overlooking that this delta variant is the reason the U.K stalled their reopening.
Their levels of reopening were based on the then alpha variant and vaccination levels based on that variant. There test events data based on the same. If it was now with the delta variant who knows what their data would have shown as regards their reopening road-map.

RobTheLad · 30-06-2021 12:01PM

It's my 30th birthday today. A memory popped up on Facebook this morning from this day last year of me and the old man sitting indoors in a pub having a pint. Seem to remember they reopened on June 29th last year.

Little did I think a year later we wouldn't even have the luxury to do that.

Spiderman0081 · 30-06-2021 12:03PM

I just heard that those who have received only one dose of their vaccine can order a pint indoors but have to drink it outside

titan18 · 30-06-2021 12:04PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Are you not overlooking that this delta variant is the reason the U.K stalled their reopening.
Their levels of reopening were based on the then alpha variant and vaccination levels based on that variant. There test events data based on the same. If it was now with the delta variant who knows what their data would have shown as regards their reopening road-map.

No, i'm just making a big deal of it. They stalled the reopening of things like nightclubs (delta variant or not, that's not even on our radar). They reopened indoor dining ages ago and whilst there's been a spike, is that down to indoor dining, or is that down to them being in the Euros so there's a huge reason for them to go out and party? We're not comparing like with like here.

It's the same with Scotland, they had a huge occasion Friday week ago that resulted in a lot of parties and socialisation. It's equivalent to us being open on St Patricks Day and not expecting a spike tbh, no matter what the variant is.

Eivor · 30-06-2021 12:05PM

gozunda wrote: »

Atm we have temporary restrictions. They are not permanent.

That’s what we thought in March last year. 15 months later they don’t seem so temporary

niallo27 · 30-06-2021 12:06PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Are you not overlooking that this delta variant is the reason the U.K stalled their reopening.
Their levels of reopening were based on the then alpha variant and vaccination levels based on that variant. There test events data based on the same. If it was now with the delta variant who knows what their data would have shown as regards their reopening road-map.

They had 45k at Wembley yesterday, do you actually belive what you are typing.

RobitTV · 30-06-2021 12:06PM

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

I just heard that those who have received only one dose of their vaccine can order a pint indoors but have to drink it outside

Please tell me this is a piss take :pac:

M_Murphy57 · 30-06-2021 12:08PM

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

I just heard that those who have received only one dose of their vaccine can order a pint indoors but have to drink it outside

Did they mention what the rules are if you have an appointment but haven't got the jab yet?

Spiderman0081 · 30-06-2021 12:08PM

RobitTV wrote: »

Please tell me this is a piss take :pac:

Imagine reading what I wrote and being unsure if it was true or not

Spiderman0081 · 30-06-2021 12:11PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Did they mention what the rules are if you have an appointment but haven't got the jab yet?

You just have to bring the person who is going to administer the vaccine to the pub with you. If he/she is vaccinated, ye can share a pint at the door.

30-06-2021 12:13PM

Are Christenings allowed to go ahead?

RobitTV · 30-06-2021 12:14PM

How will Christmas be saved this year? we need to start preparing to #SaveChristmas

OwenM · 30-06-2021 12:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are Christenings allowed to go ahead?

Only if the baby is vaccinated.

namloc1980 · 30-06-2021 12:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are Christenings allowed to go ahead?

If they weren't allowed up to now then no. All changes to indoor activities have been put back to the 19th July, with the exception of weddings going up to 50 people.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings