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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭ Cona44


    Sadb wrote: »
    You’d be surprised! But there was definitely at least another one. Why didn’t they go to her house?

    How do u know Bailey knew the one other french person. He later said he was aware Alfie Lyons had a french neighbour so he went there first.

    Jules went to take photos as she was a photographer. Personally I see nothing wrong with this. He was the local journalist and there was a murder on his doorstep. Seems normal to me that he would be all over it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    Sadb wrote: »
    You’d be surprised! But there was definitely at least another one. Why didn’t they go to her house?




    so a 50/50 chance then, at worst



    where is she, how far away, was she even there at the time, what info was he given? did he know of her existence


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭ Castlekeeper


    The randy garda, now deceased, is the only local theory that ever made sense to me, IB seems to gain some satisfaction from being the a red herring all these years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    The randy garda, now deceased, is the only local theory that ever made sense to me, IB seems to gain some satisfaction from being the a red herring all these years.






    name and shame, can't slander him as he is dead


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭ Cona44


    Also keep in mind, the story was broke by one of the lead detectives who passed info to Eddie Cassidy who rang Bailey.

    It’s likely Cassidy knew exactly where the house was and was able to articulate it to IB


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 Biker79




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭ Sadb


    Cona44 wrote: »
    How do u know Bailey knew the one other french person. He later said he was aware Alfie Lyons had a french neighbour so he went there first.

    Jules went to take photos as she was a photographer. Personally I see nothing wrong with this. He was the local journalist and there was a murder on his doorstep. Seems normal to me that he would be all over it.

    That is true, he may not have known the other couple.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,002 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    Sadb wrote: »
    Why exactly would guards need a statement from people that were at a party months before that Bailey also attended? He strikes me as a person that attended the opening of an envelope so nothing strange or particular about that party.

    Because, judging by the line of questioning of those who were asked for statements, it was the only time Ian Bailey could be placed with absolute certainty near Sophie du Toscan Plantier's holiday home.
    Their contention seemed to be he was casing the place out.

    Gardaí also seemed to be trying to prove he was familiar with both her and the area.
    They were looking for 'evidence' he discussed her.

    It was also a party out the back of beyond, half way up a mountain, along boreens so not exactly easy to get to. Yes, Bailey was the type to go where he thought the 'in crowd' were (in this case big names in hospitality) but it took an effort to get there and was the first and last time he was there as a 'guest' (it's unclear if he was invited - Alfie couldn't remember even at the time of the party).

    My point is that AGS got statements from half the people there but despite being contacted never bothered to interview the person who spent many hours listening to Bailey's blow holing. The did talk to people whose whole interaction with him consisted of "pass the mayo please".

    That's shoddy police work by any criteria.


  • Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭ Larsso30


    Documentary like the garda offered zero evidence it was IB. Couldn't link him to Sophie either in anyway. No motive, no evidence no physical evidence. It did demonstrate Bailey was capable of extreme violence against women but that in itself is weak. Bailey is a dick of the highest order, a drunk and capable of violence but if you believe a local garda wouldn't of released info to him as a reporter back then you may as well believe in santa, it still happens today sure!

    What surprises me most is that there has been no major reopening of the case on the Garda. Maybe its pointless due to lost evidence etc.. But they have massively failed the victim and her family


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,002 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    Sadb wrote: »
    You’d be surprised! But there was definitely at least another one. Why didn’t they go to her house?

    The word that Shirley had found a body and it was her neighbours was out very quickly. We knew in Cork City within an hour who the victim was.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,002 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    Cona44 wrote: »
    How do u know Bailey knew the one other french person. He later said he was aware Alfie Lyons had a french neighbour so he went there first.

    Jules went to take photos as she was a photographer. Personally I see nothing wrong with this. He was the local journalist and there was a murder on his doorstep. Seems normal to me that he would be all over it.

    And that was the significance of the party I attended.
    It was there that Bailey learned who Alfie's neighbour was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,904 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Cona44 wrote: »
    If you read the DPPs report, it becomes clear they that office is certain that the guards were trying to stitch Bailey up on every turn possible.

    Stitch him up, or were convinced in their bones from the range of circumstantial stuff that he did it and were desperately trying to gin up some evidence that would stand up in court after the diastrous mishandling of the initial investigation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭ upupup




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    upupup wrote: »




    That's 5 years after the event and what have an garda done in the meantime?


    SFA


    The amount of stuff they must have messed up and covered up over the years


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,370 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    That's 5 years after the event and what have an garda done in the meantime?


    SFA


    The amount of stuff they must have messed up and covered up over the years

    What can they do? The case was messed up on day 1 by the original investigative team, they have very little to build on.

    Barring a remarkable stroke of fortune no new evidence will come to light in this case, all that will be gathered is more differing versions of events.

    I think that the only way we'll ever find out who killed her is if the killer suddenly confesses, and that's assuming they are still alive themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    awec wrote: »
    What can they do? The case was messed up on day 1 by the original investigative team, they have very little to build on.

    Barring a remarkable stroke of fortune no new evidence will come to light in this case, all that will be gathered is more differing versions of events.

    I think that the only way we'll ever find out who killed her is if the killer suddenly confesses, and that's assuming they are still alive themselves.




    go back, re-interview everyone, check up on others in the vicinity that they would have ignored due to being too busy trying to frame someone else for it, its not like they investigated it at all the first time



    The writing was on a wall way before 2001 on this, yet instead sure lets do nothing





    do an independent inquiry into who made the evidence disappear and then follow up on this, id assume tampering with evidence is a crime and so is destroying it, yet nothing


  • Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭ AdrianG08


    go back, re-interview everyone, check up on others in the vicinity that they would have ignored due to being too busy trying to frame someone else for it, its not like they investigated it at all the first time



    The writing was on a wall way before 2001 on this, yet instead sure lets do nothing





    do an independent inquiry into who made the evidence disappear and then follow up on this, id assume tampering with evidence is a crime and so is destroying it, yet nothing

    Exactly. Who made a big blood stained gate go missing for starters. Events around that shouldn't be too hard to determine. And why it went missing may raise some questions.

    Reading Gemma O'Dohertys piece (and no doubt its laced with unsubstantiated claims about Gardai against whom she has her own gripes) but if even half of it was truthful its quite astonishing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 Biker79


    AdrianG08 wrote: »
    Exactly. Who made a big blood stained gate go missing for starters. Events around that shouldn't be too hard to determine. And why it went missing may raise some questions.

    Reading Gemma O'Dohertys piece (and no doubt its laced with unsubstantiated claims about Gardai against whom she has her own gripes) but if even half of it was truthful its quite astonishing.

    Might also explain how she went from being a competent award winning investigative journalist, to being cancelled as an outcast.

    It was a remarkable transition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,370 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    go back, re-interview everyone, check up on others in the vicinity that they would have ignored due to being too busy trying to frame someone else for it, its not like they investigated it at all the first time



    The writing was on a wall way before 2001 on this, yet instead sure lets do nothing





    do an independent inquiry into who made the evidence disappear and then follow up on this, id assume tampering with evidence is a crime and so is destroying it, yet nothing

    Can't re-interview people now its nearly 30 years ago ,
    There been so much media attention , Podcast , documentaries and everything , Peoples memory's of events would be a mix of everything they have heard in the last 30 years & what they witnessed

    After that length of time you memory is literally a memory of a memory & can be very wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,370 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    I think its obvious the Garda knew who it was an helped cover it up or it was one of them,

    Come on now lads the gate going missing from evidence is a bit of a give away don't ye think


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    Can't re-interview people now its nearly 30 years ago ,
    There been so much media attention , Podcast , documentaries and everything , Peoples memory's of events would be a mix of everything they have heard in the last 30 years & what they witnessed

    After that length of time you memory is literally a memory of a memory & can be very wrong




    I didn't say they should start today, i said why have the done nothing in the last 20 years



    the report is 5 years after, the writing would have been on the wall in at least 1997 that they had made a cock up once the dpp didn't go to trial


    its been 20 years since its been public knowledge there was nothing to say it was him


    yet nothing


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,002 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Bannasidhe


    Can't re-interview people now its nearly 30 years ago ,
    There been so much media attention , Podcast , documentaries and everything , Peoples memory's of events would be a mix of everything they have heard in the last 30 years & what they witnessed

    After that length of time you memory is literally a memory of a memory & can be very wrong

    I agree.

    I wrote down what I remembered soon after the events and possibly still have that shoved away somewhere, but now all I remember are things like not being able to find Alfie's, how damn slow he always was getting food out but usually worth it when it finally turned up - this time he burnt the food and had the absolute sh*te taken out of him for the rest of the day, a very stoned big bloke with a black beard waffling on and on about himself, and a very brief exchange about the owner of the house along the boreen.

    I'd be hard pressed now to tell you exactly who was there - it would be 'that woman who owned that restaurant in Schull dunno the name of it ...and her son'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I agree.

    I wrote down what I remembered soon after the events and possibly still have that shoved away somewhere, but now all I remember are things like not being able to find Alfie's, how damn slow he always was getting food out but usually worth it when it finally turned up - this time he burnt the food and had the absolute sh*te taken out of him for the rest of the day, a very stoned big bloke with a black beard waffling on and on about himself, and a very brief exchange about the owner of the house along the boreen.

    I'd be hard pressed now to tell you exactly who was there - it would be 'that woman who owned that restaurant in Schull dunno the name of it ...and her son'.






    from pedo priests to nuns burying babies in septic tanks, thats how ireland works, you wait for it to be too late to do anything about it


    The question in this case, when there would be records of why decisions were made, why was the decision made to not re-investigate it in the late 90s and by whom


    Who had access to the evidence and where as an example was the gate, way too large to just lose, stored and who the feck took it


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭ Cona44


    Is there anyway to corroborate the DNA that was identified? The gate, the bushes, Sophie’s nails etc, I find it hard to believe that they never found any other DNA other than Sophie’s.

    I don’t know the chain of command and how it works but was it possible that the DNA report was covered up? Sounds implausible but I guess anything was possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    Cona44 wrote: »
    Is there anyway to corroborate the DNA that was identified? The gate, the bushes, Sophie’s nails etc, I find it hard to believe that they never found any other DNA other than Sophie’s.

    I don’t know the chain of command and how it works but was it possible that the DNA report was covered up? Sounds implausible but I guess anything was possible.




    as implausible as someone tearing pages out of an evidence book?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭ SoulWriter


    Cona44 wrote: »
    Is there anyway to corroborate the DNA that was identified? The gate, the bushes, Sophie’s nails etc, I find it hard to believe that they never found any other DNA other than Sophie’s.

    I don’t know the chain of command and how it works but was it possible that the DNA report was covered up? Sounds implausible but I guess anything was possible.
    surely there must be a limited number of places you would store a gate.It must have been taken on a truck or tractor trailer, maybe some contractor who does work for the garda.


    They must know if they had something big like that today what they would do with it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭ Jerry Attrick



    where was the gate, way too large to just lose, stored and who the feck took it
    SoulWriter wrote: »
    surely there must be a limited number of places you would store a gate.It must have been taken on a truck or tractor trailer, maybe some contractor who does work for the garda.

    They must know if they had something big like that today what they would do with it


    Probably stored in the yard at the back of Schull Garda Station, which is down a lane shared with the Irish Coast Guard Service and is often left open and unsupervised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    surely there must be a limited number of places you would store a gate.It must have been taken on a truck or tractor trailer, maybe some contractor who does work for the garda.


    They must know if they had something big like that today what they would do with it


    when was it lost is the question, the gate on its own is useless, they would have had to remove the evidence from it for analysis pretty early on


    apparently there was blood found on it, so you'd assume they would have done something with the found blood


  • Subscribers Posts: 35,329 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Might also explain how she went from being a competent award winning investigative journalist, to being cancelled as an outcast.

    It was a remarkable transition.

    cancelled as an outcast??

    shes a vile evil racist homophobe, who did vile evil racist homophobic things.
    no one to blame but herself


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 Biker79


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    cancelled as an outcast??

    shes a vile evil racist homophobe, who did vile evil racist homophobic things.
    no one to blame but herself

    Strong words. Maybe she is ...

    But none of it adds up. Just like the narrative around Bailey didn't add up...


This discussion has been closed.
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