Murder at the Cottage | Sky

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 1:11pm

Sadb wrote: »

You’d be surprised! But there was definitely at least another one. Why didn’t they go to her house?

so a 50/50 chance then, at worst

where is she, how far away, was she even there at the time, what info was he given? did he know of her existence

Castlekeeper · 22-06-2021 1:13pm

The randy garda, now deceased, is the only local theory that ever made sense to me, IB seems to gain some satisfaction from being the a red herring all these years.

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 1:14pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

The randy garda, now deceased, is the only local theory that ever made sense to me, IB seems to gain some satisfaction from being the a red herring all these years.

name and shame, can't slander him as he is dead

Cona44 · 22-06-2021 1:15pm

Also keep in mind, the story was broke by one of the lead detectives who passed info to Eddie Cassidy who rang Bailey.

It’s likely Cassidy knew exactly where the house was and was able to articulate it to IB

Biker79 · 22-06-2021 1:17pm

Perhaps Gemma was on to something:

https://villagemagazine.ie/did-gardai-target-bailey-to-shield-sophies-killer-by-gemma-odoherty/

Sadb · 22-06-2021 1:22pm

Cona44 wrote: »

How do u know Bailey knew the one other french person. He later said he was aware Alfie Lyons had a french neighbour so he went there first.

Jules went to take photos as she was a photographer. Personally I see nothing wrong with this. He was the local journalist and there was a murder on his doorstep. Seems normal to me that he would be all over it.

That is true, he may not have known the other couple.

Bannasidhe · 22-06-2021 1:22pm

Sadb wrote: »

Why exactly would guards need a statement from people that were at a party months before that Bailey also attended? He strikes me as a person that attended the opening of an envelope so nothing strange or particular about that party.

Because, judging by the line of questioning of those who were asked for statements, it was the only time Ian Bailey could be placed with absolute certainty near Sophie du Toscan Plantier's holiday home.
Their contention seemed to be he was casing the place out.

Gardaí also seemed to be trying to prove he was familiar with both her and the area.
They were looking for 'evidence' he discussed her.

It was also a party out the back of beyond, half way up a mountain, along boreens so not exactly easy to get to. Yes, Bailey was the type to go where he thought the 'in crowd' were (in this case big names in hospitality) but it took an effort to get there and was the first and last time he was there as a 'guest' (it's unclear if he was invited - Alfie couldn't remember even at the time of the party).

My point is that AGS got statements from half the people there but despite being contacted never bothered to interview the person who spent many hours listening to Bailey's blow holing. The did talk to people whose whole interaction with him consisted of "pass the mayo please".

That's shoddy police work by any criteria.

Larsso30 · 22-06-2021 1:28pm

Documentary like the garda offered zero evidence it was IB. Couldn't link him to Sophie either in anyway. No motive, no evidence no physical evidence. It did demonstrate Bailey was capable of extreme violence against women but that in itself is weak. Bailey is a dick of the highest order, a drunk and capable of violence but if you believe a local garda wouldn't of released info to him as a reporter back then you may as well believe in santa, it still happens today sure!

What surprises me most is that there has been no major reopening of the case on the Garda. Maybe its pointless due to lost evidence etc.. But they have massively failed the victim and her family

Bannasidhe · 22-06-2021 1:28pm

Sadb wrote: »

You’d be surprised! But there was definitely at least another one. Why didn’t they go to her house?

The word that Shirley had found a body and it was her neighbours was out very quickly. We knew in Cork City within an hour who the victim was.

Bannasidhe · 22-06-2021 1:30pm

Cona44 wrote: »

How do u know Bailey knew the one other french person. He later said he was aware Alfie Lyons had a french neighbour so he went there first.

Jules went to take photos as she was a photographer. Personally I see nothing wrong with this. He was the local journalist and there was a murder on his doorstep. Seems normal to me that he would be all over it.

And that was the significance of the party I attended.
It was there that Bailey learned who Alfie's neighbour was.

Loafing Oaf · 22-06-2021 2:02pm

Cona44 wrote: »

If you read the DPPs report, it becomes clear they that office is certain that the guards were trying to stitch Bailey up on every turn possible.

Stitch him up, or were convinced in their bones from the range of circumstantial stuff that he did it and were desperately trying to gin up some evidence that would stand up in court after the diastrous mishandling of the initial investigation.

upupup · 22-06-2021 2:06pm

Here is the 2001 dpp file
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/540818-83548065-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-dpp-file-2001.html

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 2:15pm

upupup wrote: »

Here is the 2001 dpp file
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/540818-83548065-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-dpp-file-2001.html

That's 5 years after the event and what have an garda done in the meantime?

SFA

The amount of stuff they must have messed up and covered up over the years

awec · 22-06-2021 2:32pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

That's 5 years after the event and what have an garda done in the meantime?

SFA

The amount of stuff they must have messed up and covered up over the years

What can they do? The case was messed up on day 1 by the original investigative team, they have very little to build on.

Barring a remarkable stroke of fortune no new evidence will come to light in this case, all that will be gathered is more differing versions of events.

I think that the only way we'll ever find out who killed her is if the killer suddenly confesses, and that's assuming they are still alive themselves.

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 2:43pm

awec wrote: »

What can they do? The case was messed up on day 1 by the original investigative team, they have very little to build on.

Barring a remarkable stroke of fortune no new evidence will come to light in this case, all that will be gathered is more differing versions of events.

I think that the only way we'll ever find out who killed her is if the killer suddenly confesses, and that's assuming they are still alive themselves.

go back, re-interview everyone, check up on others in the vicinity that they would have ignored due to being too busy trying to frame someone else for it, its not like they investigated it at all the first time

The writing was on a wall way before 2001 on this, yet instead sure lets do nothing

do an independent inquiry into who made the evidence disappear and then follow up on this, id assume tampering with evidence is a crime and so is destroying it, yet nothing

AdrianG08 · 22-06-2021 2:46pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

go back, re-interview everyone, check up on others in the vicinity that they would have ignored due to being too busy trying to frame someone else for it, its not like they investigated it at all the first time

The writing was on a wall way before 2001 on this, yet instead sure lets do nothing

do an independent inquiry into who made the evidence disappear and then follow up on this, id assume tampering with evidence is a crime and so is destroying it, yet nothing

Exactly. Who made a big blood stained gate go missing for starters. Events around that shouldn't be too hard to determine. And why it went missing may raise some questions.

Reading Gemma O'Dohertys piece (and no doubt its laced with unsubstantiated claims about Gardai against whom she has her own gripes) but if even half of it was truthful its quite astonishing.

Biker79 · 22-06-2021 2:56pm

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Exactly. Who made a big blood stained gate go missing for starters. Events around that shouldn't be too hard to determine. And why it went missing may raise some questions.

Reading Gemma O'Dohertys piece (and no doubt its laced with unsubstantiated claims about Gardai against whom she has her own gripes) but if even half of it was truthful its quite astonishing.

Might also explain how she went from being a competent award winning investigative journalist, to being cancelled as an outcast.

It was a remarkable transition.

yourdeadwright · 22-06-2021 2:59pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

go back, re-interview everyone, check up on others in the vicinity that they would have ignored due to being too busy trying to frame someone else for it, its not like they investigated it at all the first time

The writing was on a wall way before 2001 on this, yet instead sure lets do nothing

do an independent inquiry into who made the evidence disappear and then follow up on this, id assume tampering with evidence is a crime and so is destroying it, yet nothing

Can't re-interview people now its nearly 30 years ago ,
There been so much media attention , Podcast , documentaries and everything , Peoples memory's of events would be a mix of everything they have heard in the last 30 years & what they witnessed

After that length of time you memory is literally a memory of a memory & can be very wrong

yourdeadwright · 22-06-2021 3:07pm

I think its obvious the Garda knew who it was an helped cover it up or it was one of them,

Come on now lads the gate going missing from evidence is a bit of a give away don't ye think

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 3:07pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Can't re-interview people now its nearly 30 years ago ,
There been so much media attention , Podcast , documentaries and everything , Peoples memory's of events would be a mix of everything they have heard in the last 30 years & what they witnessed

After that length of time you memory is literally a memory of a memory & can be very wrong

I didn't say they should start today, i said why have the done nothing in the last 20 years

the report is 5 years after, the writing would have been on the wall in at least 1997 that they had made a cock up once the dpp didn't go to trial

its been 20 years since its been public knowledge there was nothing to say it was him

yet nothing

Bannasidhe · 22-06-2021 3:11pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Can't re-interview people now its nearly 30 years ago ,
There been so much media attention , Podcast , documentaries and everything , Peoples memory's of events would be a mix of everything they have heard in the last 30 years & what they witnessed

After that length of time you memory is literally a memory of a memory & can be very wrong

I agree.

I wrote down what I remembered soon after the events and possibly still have that shoved away somewhere, but now all I remember are things like not being able to find Alfie's, how damn slow he always was getting food out but usually worth it when it finally turned up - this time he burnt the food and had the absolute sh*te taken out of him for the rest of the day, a very stoned big bloke with a black beard waffling on and on about himself, and a very brief exchange about the owner of the house along the boreen.

I'd be hard pressed now to tell you exactly who was there - it would be 'that woman who owned that restaurant in Schull dunno the name of it ...and her son'.

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 3:22pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I agree.

I wrote down what I remembered soon after the events and possibly still have that shoved away somewhere, but now all I remember are things like not being able to find Alfie's, how damn slow he always was getting food out but usually worth it when it finally turned up - this time he burnt the food and had the absolute sh*te taken out of him for the rest of the day, a very stoned big bloke with a black beard waffling on and on about himself, and a very brief exchange about the owner of the house along the boreen.

I'd be hard pressed now to tell you exactly who was there - it would be 'that woman who owned that restaurant in Schull dunno the name of it ...and her son'.

from pedo priests to nuns burying babies in septic tanks, thats how ireland works, you wait for it to be too late to do anything about it

The question in this case, when there would be records of why decisions were made, why was the decision made to not re-investigate it in the late 90s and by whom

Who had access to the evidence and where as an example was the gate, way too large to just lose, stored and who the feck took it

Cona44 · 22-06-2021 3:27pm

Is there anyway to corroborate the DNA that was identified? The gate, the bushes, Sophie’s nails etc, I find it hard to believe that they never found any other DNA other than Sophie’s.

I don’t know the chain of command and how it works but was it possible that the DNA report was covered up? Sounds implausible but I guess anything was possible.

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 3:29pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Is there anyway to corroborate the DNA that was identified? The gate, the bushes, Sophie’s nails etc, I find it hard to believe that they never found any other DNA other than Sophie’s.

I don’t know the chain of command and how it works but was it possible that the DNA report was covered up? Sounds implausible but I guess anything was possible.

as implausible as someone tearing pages out of an evidence book?

22-06-2021 3:38pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Is there anyway to corroborate the DNA that was identified? The gate, the bushes, Sophie’s nails etc, I find it hard to believe that they never found any other DNA other than Sophie’s.

I don’t know the chain of command and how it works but was it possible that the DNA report was covered up? Sounds implausible but I guess anything was possible.

surely there must be a limited number of places you would store a gate.It must have been taken on a truck or tractor trailer, maybe some contractor who does work for the garda.

They must know if they had something big like that today what they would do with it

Jerry Attrick · 22-06-2021 3:46pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

where was the gate, way too large to just lose, stored and who the feck took it

SoulWriter wrote: »

surely there must be a limited number of places you would store a gate.It must have been taken on a truck or tractor trailer, maybe some contractor who does work for the garda.

They must know if they had something big like that today what they would do with it

Probably stored in the yard at the back of Schull Garda Station, which is down a lane shared with the Irish Coast Guard Service and is often left open and unsupervised.

monkeybutter · 22-06-2021 3:53pm

SoulWriter wrote: »

surely there must be a limited number of places you would store a gate.It must have been taken on a truck or tractor trailer, maybe some contractor who does work for the garda.

They must know if they had something big like that today what they would do with it

when was it lost is the question, the gate on its own is useless, they would have had to remove the evidence from it for analysis pretty early on

apparently there was blood found on it, so you'd assume they would have done something with the found blood

sydthebeat · 22-06-2021 4:05pm

Biker79 wrote: »

Might also explain how she went from being a competent award winning investigative journalist, to being cancelled as an outcast.

It was a remarkable transition.

cancelled as an outcast??

shes a vile evil racist homophobe, who did vile evil racist homophobic things.
no one to blame but herself

Biker79 · 22-06-2021 4:35pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

cancelled as an outcast??

shes a vile evil racist homophobe, who did vile evil racist homophobic things.
no one to blame but herself

Strong words. Maybe she is ...

But none of it adds up. Just like the narrative around Bailey didn't add up...

Creamy Goodness · 22-06-2021 4:44pm

Can we nip the G*mma talk right here, right now? Got zero to do with the documentary/case and any time her name is mentioned it rarely starts/ends well.

Definitely think there will be a renewed pressure to reopen/reexamine this case when the Netflix documentary comes out later this month. This documentary definitely won't have as many eyeballs on it that the Netflix one will have.

yourdeadwright · 22-06-2021 4:53pm

We know they DPP thought the Garda in Cork made an absolute pigs ear of it , On purpose or not is the question

The Cork Garda knew the DPP won't go into detail on a case they are not pursuing so the local Garda in Cork just blame the DPP while hiding whatever it is they are hiding ,

If the Jim Fitzgerald was willing to get naked in Maire Farrell sitting room without consent what else was he up on the sly,

upupup · 22-06-2021 5:45pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Definitely think there will be a renewed pressure to reopen/reexamine this case when the Netflix documentary comes out later this month. This documentary definitely won't have as many eyeballs on it that the Netflix one will have.

Bailey spoke to matt cooper about the netflix doc.he said it will probably be against him.he said he was aware of some stuff that will be in it and its partially funded by sofies family.
A piece of demonising propaganda is what he called it

JP Liz V1 · 22-06-2021 5:55pm

Was she seeing someone back here, maybe a Garda? How did the gate go missing from evidence?

Sadb · 22-06-2021 5:59pm

Why would the gate even matter at this stage anyway, or even 5 years after? I presume blood samples were taken from it? If not, why not? Was it checked for fingerprints?

LMC7 · 22-06-2021 6:15pm

What is the feeling locally in Schull?

Is it 50/50 on whether Bailey did it or is there more hatred for him?

The residents of Schull would have a bit more intuition on the case..

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 22-06-2021 6:36pm

the marie farrell story of seeing a guy on the bridge is absolute horses**t

this is the direct walk from jule's cottage to sophie's house: https://goo.gl/maps/6ADkUj26kPy5eALu9
it's a long walk, 50 minute and up a hill at the end, I drove it a few weeks ago (but didn't make the final turn off to sophie's house, even the road before that you feel like you're on a private boreen going into a farm)

now look at the walk if you had to pass kealfadda bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/VekixnwS615jCWct7
it's completely out of the way and turns it into a 90 minute walk!

am_zarathustra · 22-06-2021 6:45pm

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup wrote: »

the marie farrell story of seeing a guy on the bridge is absolute horses**t

this is the direct walk from jule's cottage to sophie's house: https://goo.gl/maps/6ADkUj26kPy5eALu9
it's a long walk, 50 minute and up a hill at the end, I drove it a few weeks ago (but didn't make the final turn off to sophie's house, even the road before that you feel like you're on a private boreen going into a farm)

now look at the walk if you had to pass kealfadda bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/VekixnwS615jCWct7
it's completely out of the way and turns it into a 90 minute walk!

Thanks, that's great for context. Looking even at maps that didn't feel right. She'd a strange witness, I'd take none of what she said seriously really.

22-06-2021 6:50pm

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup wrote: »

the marie farrell story of seeing a guy on the bridge is absolute horses**t

this is the direct walk from jule's cottage to sophie's house: https://goo.gl/maps/6ADkUj26kPy5eALu9
it's a long walk, 50 minute and up a hill at the end, I drove it a few weeks ago (but didn't make the final turn off to sophie's house, even the road before that you feel like you're on a private boreen going into a farm)

now look at the walk if you had to pass kealfadda bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/VekixnwS615jCWct7
it's completely out of the way and turns it into a 90 minute walk!

Did Bailey admit going for a walk? i know he admitted going to the studio to write, how far is that from Jules house?

22-06-2021 6:54pm

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Probably stored in the yard at the back of Schull Garda Station, which is down a lane shared with the Irish Coast Guard Service and is often left open and unsupervised.

But then it is accessibe to the garda. are you saying the delberately hid it?Would theyhave taken the samples from the gate before moving it ot move it and then examine for forensic?

Yurt2 · 22-06-2021 6:56pm

LMC7 wrote: »

What is the feeling locally in Schull?

Is it 50/50 on whether Bailey did it or is there more hatred for him?

The residents of Schull would have a bit more intuition on the case..

I come from a pretty rural community. Wouldn't want to have anyone have their innocence or guilt meditated on by some of the net curtain twitchers where I'm from. Double that impulse if it's 'an outsider'. Treble it if it's a foreigner.

I'm sure the people of Schull are lovely people, but like any rural community, it's bound to have its fair share of gossips with too much time on their hands, self-appointed pillars of the community and general eccentrics.

Deeec · 22-06-2021 7:04pm

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Thanks, that's great for context. Looking even at maps that didn't feel right. She'd a strange witness, I'd take none of what she said seriously really.

Marie Farrell is as big an attention seeker as Ian Bailey. She has proven herself to be a liar. Nothing she says can be believed.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 22-06-2021 7:05pm

Was Alfie Lyons ever considered as a suspect? Had a very bad relationship with her by all accounts. Suspiciously never heard anything that night. Seemed happy to participate in the stitch up of Bailey.

Bailey is definitely guilty of being a pompous arrogant git but don't think there's much evidence pointing to him for this.

Deeec · 22-06-2021 7:11pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Was Alfie Lyons ever considered as a suspect? Had a very bad relationship with her by all accounts. Suspiciously never heard anything that night. Seemed happy to participate in the stitch up of Bailey.

Bailey is definitely guilty of being a pompous arrogant git but don't think there's much evidence pointing to him for this.

There has never been much said about Alfie Lyons. I would assume he was a suspect at the start ( but then again the gardai investigation into the murder was pathetic ). Why did Alfie and Sophie not get on - I havent seen any reference to this in what I have read and listened to.

22-06-2021 7:25pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Was Alfie Lyons ever considered as a suspect? Had a very bad relationship with her by all accounts. Suspiciously never heard anything that night. Seemed happy to participate in the stitch up of Bailey.

Bailey is definitely guilty of being a pompous arrogant git but don't think there's much evidence pointing to him for this.

I don't recall hearing that. What was the problem, wasn't Alfie's wife her housekeeper?

Cona44 · 22-06-2021 7:30pm

Deeec wrote: »

There has never been much said about Alfie Lyons. I would assume he was a suspect at the start ( but then again the gardai investigation into the murder was pathetic ). Why did Alfie and Sophie not get on - I havent seen any reference to this in what I have read and listened to.

Something about their cat getting into Sophie’s house and destroying the place in soot from chimney.

Also it’s interesting that Sophie ran away from the houses instead of towards Alfie’s. Was there a car inside the gate based on tire marks?
Why not run up to your neighbours?

Also, there was no lights on in the house. You would imaging if she got up during the night she would have left a light on. Could easily have been the morning time when this happened.

Was there two people involved in the murder? One got the slate whilst the other got the block?

Deeec · 22-06-2021 7:41pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Something about their cat getting into Sophie’s house and destroying the place in soot from chimney.

Also it’s interesting that Sophie ran away from the houses instead of towards Alfie’s. Was there a car inside the gate based on tire marks?
Why not run up to your neighbours?

Also, there was no lights on in the house. You would imaging if she got up during the night she would have left a light on. Could easily have been the morning time when this happened.

Was there two people involved in the murder? One got the slate whilst the other got the block?

It is possible there were more than 1 person involved. If trying to run from an attacker it doesnt make sense that she would run to the road where there are no houses and not much of a chance of a car driving by. If in danger the most logical thing to do would be to run to your neighbours. I know its easy to say that when your not in that situation though - I can only imagine it is hard to think rationally ( but she did have time to put boots on). It is possible of course she was at the gate to let someone in.

There seems to be another house also close by - Does anyone know if that house was occupied at the time of the murder?

22-06-2021 7:43pm

Cona44 wrote: »

Something about their cat getting into Sophie’s house and destroying the place in soot from chimney.

Also it’s interesting that Sophie ran away from the houses instead of towards Alfie’s. Was there a car inside the gate based on tire marks?
Why not run up to your neighbours?

Also, there was no lights on in the house. You would imaging if she got up during the night she would have left a light on. Could easily have been the morning time when this happened.

Was there two people involved in the murder? One got the slate whilst the other got the block?

she did have breakfast in stomach. Maybe someone was there all night? She wasn't found until around 10.am

AudreyHepburn · 22-06-2021 8:42pm

Really enjoying Sky’s series. I also intend to watch the upcoming series on Netflix. I don’t know why but the case is one of those that stuck with me.

While I don’t deny that the Gardai made a complete mess of the investment I am firmly convinced that Ian Bailey is guilty as sin.

And I don’t think Marie Farrell can be trusted as far you could throw her.

22-06-2021 8:55pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If the Jim Fitzgerald was willing to get naked in Maire Farrell sitting room without consent what else was he up on the sly,

Could you believe a word of that though?

discostu1 · 22-06-2021 9:15pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ye very possible could be why the man in the car with her was never named
Although i always thoughtful maybe it was a Guard in her car ,

You forgot the best part, Marie said the Barca tried it on and later appeared in a bedroom she was cleaning ,he was naked.When challenged as this sounded so unbelievable,Marie described a mark/growth on the Gardas nether regions.The Barca admitted yes he had such a mark/growth but he had confided this information to Marie's husband who "must have told her" ðŸ™„

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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