organic farming

Say my name · 01-06-2021 7:30am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The Coops have been investing in expanding conventional processing and have no mind for messing with ‘niche’ markets... they talk in millions of litres and thousands of tonnes.
It’ll take Government initiative to get the ball rolling, otherwise they’re only paying lip service to organic.

Took a drive Sunday from New Ross to Mullinavat to Ballyhale to Kells to Dunamaggin back to Kells and Kilkenny city.
A meal lorry driver told me before there's big dairy farms in Kilkenny. They weren't wrong.
I can see now why glanbia wanted the factory in belview just down the road.
You'd see it all. Sheds twenty spans long.
Stone walls and hundreds of calves in fields. Silage pits where you'd need a helicopter rescue. Savage land the best in the country. Not a multi species mix in sight nor why would they bother when the scale is there.
It'd be hard to change the mindset of those when you've the land working for you and that carries into the boardrooms.

Chisler2 · 01-06-2021 7:35am

Say my name wrote: »

Took a drive Sunday from New Ross to Mullinavat to Ballyhale to Kells to Dunamaggin back to Kells and Kilkenny city.
A meal lorry driver told me before there's big dairy farms in Kilkenny. They weren't wrong.
I can see now why glanbia wanted the factory in belview just down the road.
You'd see it all. Sheds twenty spans long.
Stone walls and hundreds of calves in fields. Silage pits where you'd need a helicopter rescue. Savage land the best in the country. Not a multi species mix in sight nor why would they bother when the scale is there.
It'd be hard to change the mindset of those when you've the land working for you and that carries into the boardrooms.

Until they degrade that land through that monoculture. Then the reckoning.

Siamsa Sessions · 01-06-2021 8:08am

Say my name wrote: »

Took a drive Sunday from New Ross to Mullinavat to Ballyhale to Kells to Dunamaggin back to Kells and Kilkenny city.
A meal lorry driver told me before there's big dairy farms in Kilkenny. They weren't wrong.
I can see now why glanbia wanted the factory in belview just down the road.
You'd see it all. Sheds twenty spans long.
Stone walls and hundreds of calves in fields. Silage pits where you'd need a helicopter rescue. Savage land the best in the country. Not a multi species mix in sight nor why would they bother when the scale is there.
It'd be hard to change the mindset of those when you've the land working for you and that carries into the boardrooms.

I've a cousin who milks around 100 pedigree Holsteins and he's in a discussion group in that part of the country. He told me he sees the same thing there - investment up into the millions, and not just the odd farm. Anyone who owes the bank big money will fight hard to maintain the status quo, and they're exactly what the co-ops want: farmers bound tight to big production.

Siamsa Sessions · 01-06-2021 8:27am

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’ll take Government initiative to get the ball rolling, otherwise they’re only paying lip service to organic.

Apologies for throwing out the same mantra again and again, but the Irish Government will do as little as possible to impact the success, as they see it, of conventional agri-food exports. It's hard cash coming into the country and supports massive employment.

Organic exports to the EU could be a huge opportunity for Irish farmers, in terms of better farm gate returns and lower environmental impact. New routes to that market are needed as you said above, but the Irish Government are happy to hawk 'Origin Green' as it seems organic - just without the premium - and keep the exports rolling out.

Some interesting reading here on the bigger agri-food export picture, including the "Contribution of the Agri-Food Sector to the National Economy". And for "agri-food sector", you can read "conventional agri-food sector"

https://www.teagasc.ie/rural-economy/rural-economy/agri-food-business/agriculture-in-ireland/

Say my name · 01-06-2021 9:30am

Chisler2 wrote: »

Until they degrade that land through that monoculture. Then the reckoning.

No I'd say that land was improved back in the monks time of agricultural teaching.
People nowadays just are dealing the hand dealt to them.
You won't degrade it under perennial plants. Mono or otherwise.

Say my name · 01-06-2021 9:34am

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I've a cousin who milks around 100 pedigree Holsteins and he's in a discussion group in that part of the country. He told me he sees the same thing there - investment up into the millions, and not just the odd farm. Anyone who owes the bank big money will fight hard to maintain the status quo, and they're exactly what the co-ops want: farmers bound tight to big production.

Going by the contractors machinery going there it's not only farmers. New redrock trailers and Wilson bale movers.
Ah I'd say a lot up there are legacy farms too.
Different world and a nice drive.

Say my name · 01-06-2021 12:04pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I've a cousin who milks around 100 pedigree Holsteins and he's in a discussion group in that part of the country. He told me he sees the same thing there - investment up into the millions, and not just the odd farm. Anyone who owes the bank big money will fight hard to maintain the status quo, and they're exactly what the co-ops want: farmers bound tight to big production.

You'd want to be careful who you believe too.
Lots of farms just work on surplus cash with low borrowings. If you've cash coming in you'll spend it.

Anyway looks like the anti dairy rhetoric has become government policy now.
Organic, sheep, beef, tillage covered under the upcoming tams scheme. Dairy farmers are excluded.
Sad to see that day come and become government policy. Incredible.
Dairy farmers are too busy on farm to have their voices heard anymore in this country.

There was a time when farmers in south Kilkenny doing tillage would bid for the rights to sweep the streets of Waterford city for cattle and horse sh1t.
That'll be the next pull on the dairy farmer now for their sh1t, except for free this time.

01-06-2021 12:17pm

Say my name wrote: »

You'd want to be careful who you believe too.
Lots of farms just work on surplus cash with low borrowings. If you've cash coming in you'll spend it.

Anyway looks like the anti dairy rhetoric has become government policy now.
Organic, sheep, beef, tillage covered under the upcoming tams scheme. Dairy farmers are excluded.
Sad to see that day come and become government policy. Incredible.
Dairy farmers are too busy on farm to have their voices heard anymore in this country.

There was a time when farmers in south Kilkenny doing tillage would bid for the rights to sweep the streets of Waterford city for cattle and horse sh1t.
That'll be the next pull on the dairy farmer now for their sh1t, except for free this time.

Will you be ditching them ould unviable piebalds in favour of a few herefords or blackface ewes any time soon?

Siamsa Sessions · 01-06-2021 12:22pm

Say my name wrote: »

That'll be the next pull on the dairy farmer now for their sh1t, except for free this time.

Isn't that what the co-ops were on about in the Journal a few months ago with talk of them taking in slurry/grass from farmers for anaerobic digesters?

Say my name · 01-06-2021 12:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Will you be ditching them ould unviable piebalds in favour of a few herefords or blackface ewes any time soon?

But sure you know what's happening.
It's market manipulation of the highest order.
It's only keeping the supply of cheap grain, cheap beef, cheap sheep to the multiples.
Who benefits? The farmer still cries poverty. The factories and mills still get the quantities in and praise the farmer and call for more subsidies.

Ah it's gone beyond ridiculous. My tillage neighbour with thousands of acres with the farm in multiples of company names gets bps dividied up to stay below the radar on the bps list. Gets grant aided on storage and machinery.
While his 60 cow dairy farmer across the road gets told sorry now you're excluded from the schemes.

May change my name to Godolphin and move to Kildare or something or buy a few blackface..

Say my name · 01-06-2021 12:35pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Isn't that what the co-ops were on about in the Journal a few months ago with talk of them taking in slurry/grass from farmers for anaerobic digesters?

You can see it happening. Everyone will want that carbon, nutrients, energy and for free.

But there'll come a time when everyone will be pulling so hard off that primary producer that the primary will say enough and just stop.

Anyway organics..

01-06-2021 12:44pm

Say my name wrote: »

But sure you know what's happening.
It's market manipulation of the highest order.
It's only keeping the supply of cheap grain, cheap beef, cheap sheep to the multiples.
Who benefits? The farmer still cries poverty. The factories and mills still get the quantities in and praise the farmer and call for more subsidies.

Ah it's gone beyond ridiculous. My tillage neighbour with thousands of acres with the farm in multiples of company names gets bps dividied up to stay below the radar on the bps list. Gets grant aided on storage and machinery.
While his 60 cow dairy farmer across the road gets told sorry now you're excluded from the schemes.

May change my name to Godolphin and move to Kildare or something or buy a few blackface..

The market is most definitely manipulated, to a degree we're to blame ourselves. Johnny down the road says feck this system I'm cutting production of *whatever*, Seamus across the ditch says feck Johnny I'll make up the shortfall. Farmers wouldn't stick together in a leaky glue factory, but it is a big factor is the ability of other to manipulate us.

I prefer to keep the business of farming separate from schemes. I don't see the two as the same thing at all. A lot disagree and jump into debt with both feet wanting to be first to jump off cliffs. It's a mindset thing. Then it's the bank owns me, the politician said and I did, I deserve......

Farmernomics.

Had a morbidly humorous conversation on Twitter the last day where I blamed management and chemicals on a lot of farmings bad PR. Who rushed to the defense of chemicals? Farmers, no chemical manufacturers. I don't think Monsanto or other companies shareholders would have reacted as strongly to what was an insignificant "trigger". Too many are too close to the tree to see the forest.

Say my name · 01-06-2021 1:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The market is most definitely manipulated, to a degree we're to blame ourselves. Johnny down the road says feck this system I'm cutting production of *whatever*, Seamus across the ditch says feck Johnny I'll make up the shortfall. Farmers wouldn't stick together in a leaky glue factory, but it is a big factor is the ability of other to manipulate us.

I prefer to keep the business of farming separate from schemes. I don't see the two as the same thing at all. A lot disagree and jump into debt with both feet wanting to be first to jump off cliffs. It's a mindset thing. Then it's the bank owns me, the politician said and I did, I deserve......

Farmernomics.

Had a morbidly humorous conversation on Twitter the last day where I blamed management and chemicals on a lot of farmings bad PR. Who rushed to the defense of chemicals? Farmers, no chemical manufacturers. I don't think Monsanto or other companies shareholders would have reacted as strongly to what was an insignificant "trigger". Too many are too close to the tree to see the forest.

I didn't see that convo.
But I can guess a fair idea who it was.

And what I'd say is they just have to defend the status quo no matter what.

Farming is getting a lot more serious now in every which way. Serious to change and put your whole life and livelihood at risk.

Just like the new entrants to dairying. From the outside. It was told. There's a great lobby. It's a one man show. Guarranteed future.
Now the 100's of k spent. Lobby is not as good as they thought. It's definitely not a one man show. Future who knows. Bps from previous operations also at risk.
I can see some having breakdowns.

Teagasc really do need to get the finger out now and get an organic research station up and running again. Because there's farmers will be left bankrupt being forced to change with policy and going in completely blind.
Serious times completely.

blue5000 · 01-06-2021 1:13pm

Say my name wrote: »

I didn't see that convo.
But I can guess a fair idea who it was.

And what I'd say is they just have to defend the status quo no matter what.

Farming is getting a lot more serious now in every which way. Serious to change and put your whole life and livelihood at risk.

Just like the new entrants to dairying. From the outside. It was told. There's a great lobby. It's a one man show. Guarranteed future.
Now the 100's of k spent. Lobby is not as good as they thought. It's definitely not a one man show. Future who knows. Bps from previous operations also at risk.
I can see some having breakdowns.

Teagasc really do need to get the finger out now and get an organic research station up and running again. Because there's farmers will be left bankrupt being forced to change with policy and going in completely blind.
Serious times completely.

https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/daily/environment/teagasc-appoints-new-organic-specialist.php

Teagasc have appointed a new organic advisor! Then when you read down the article, he's just replacing someone gone on a career break.

01-06-2021 1:35pm

Say my name wrote: »

I didn't see that convo.
But I can guess a fair idea who it was.

And what I'd say is they just have to defend the status quo no matter what.

Farming is getting a lot more serious now in every which way. Serious to change and put your whole life and livelihood at risk.

Just like the new entrants to dairying. From the outside. It was told. There's a great lobby. It's a one man show. Guarranteed future.
Now the 100's of k spent. Lobby is not as good as they thought. It's definitely not a one man show. Future who knows. Bps from previous operations also at risk.
I can see some having breakdowns.

Teagasc really do need to get the finger out now and get an organic research station up and running again. Because there's farmers will be left bankrupt being forced to change with policy and going in completely blind.
Serious times completely.

Change is always happening, but when it's financial change in farming and in particular making serious financial commitments to repayments, that's something that has to be considered with the utmost caution and not get caught up in a race to where ever with the neighbours. I wouldn't do it on the back of a politicians promise that's for sure, given the degree to which farming is influenced and changed by the political winds of the time. Sometimes all the neighbours ARE wrong, and it's a good idea to forge your own path in a different direction. Finding that direction is the hard part that one get's little to no help with - look outside the usual suspects doling out advice and it get's easier.

Castlekeeper · 01-06-2021 1:56pm

Say my name wrote: »

No I'd say that land was improved back in the monks time of agricultural teaching.
People nowadays just are dealing the hand dealt to them.
You won't degrade it under perennial plants. Mono or otherwise.

Time will tell, there's more problems every year on many farms, pica, lungworms, flies, summer scour syndrome, vitamin deficiencies, things that were never issues. That said, apparently it's no harm the warbles are gone.

01-06-2021 2:09pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Time will tell, there's more problems every year on many farms, pica, lungworms, flies, summer scour syndrome, vitamin deficiencies, things that were never issues. That said, apparently it's no harm the warbles are gone.

Thankfully there seems to be more & more information out there now on identifying weak spots in pest and parasite life cycles and biocontrol methods/grazing strategies of reducing and controlling them at different points. It's probably the aspect I'm most excited about learning more about.

Say my name · 01-06-2021 2:46pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Time will tell, there's more problems every year on many farms, pica, lungworms, flies, summer scour syndrome, vitamin deficiencies, things that were never issues. That said, apparently it's no harm the warbles are gone.

That summer scour syndrome is easily cured. Leave your calves in till the middle of May or start of June on hay and meal and then out to grass.
Pica. Too much nitrogen and potash spread.
Lungworms. Too liberal use of wormers and calves going out too early and your high use of nitrogen and potash and wormers phucking up your soil biota.
Vitamin deficiencies. Fertilizer again and what minerals that plant is or isn't getting.

People make out these things are the third secret of Fatima.
Watching a guy from nz on YouTube dosing cows through meal in the parlour.
Ffs why are we sending students out there to learn that crap.

Gawddawggonnit · 01-06-2021 6:00pm

I’m all for organic and conventional farming. There’s no difference in farmers producing into their market of choice...but scoring points off one another gets my hackles up. Both systems are legitimate in their own way. It may be a little annoying that one system gets all the money whilst the other is pretty much sent to Coventry, but that’s politics, not economics.

There’s nothing constructive about both systems scoring points off each other.
Stop please.

Castlekeeper · 01-06-2021 6:45pm

SMN-
As you probably can guess, I'm reasonably aware of those and other causes and solutions cures to a few random issues I hear of. My point is that these issues are now becoming accepted as normal and unavoidable in "top quality progressive" farms. What's next to crop up?

HQ
As a matter of interest, what new biocontrol methods or parasite lifecycle info have you come across? I haven't seen much progress in that regard recently. For instance I only used diatomaceous earth for the first time last winter to control external parasites even though I first read about it 20 years ago! ( Slow adopter here).

Gdawg
I'm not knocking chemical farming per se, just poor farming practices that aren't being acknowledged as such in the quest for max yields, in the context of sustainability.

01-06-2021 7:52pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

HQ
As a matter of interest, what new biocontrol methods or parasite lifecycle info have you come across? I haven't seen much progress in that regard recently. For instance I only used diatomaceous earth for the first time last winter to control external parasites even though I first read about it 20 years ago! ( Slow adopter here).

Two types of fungus can seriously reduce tick burdens. If you watch the PFLA webinar, that SMN linked to on the Biochar thread, on Bokashi you'll see James Moffatt talk about blowfly reduction as well as mastitis treatment. There's other general bits & pieces I've come across in what organisms are in the soil vs what conditions and diseases the stock are no longer getting. I'm kind of feeling around in the dark with some of it in regards to applying it on my own farm but I have seen real world large working farm case studies where these strategies have worked. Ticks were one case with something like 90% reduction.

If you listen to Kit Pharo videos he says farming only advances one funeral at a time in regards to ideas we already knew worked.

Water John · 01-06-2021 9:35pm

In fairness, the Biodiversity Conference embraces a wide range of farming. Both conventional and organic and indeed some quite radical thinkers and operators all contribute. That's as Gawd says, as it should be. The only way many practicioners will change habit is, if they see it working for someone else and solves a problem they have.
There is room for a diverse range. Conventional will of course remain the major one and in fact the range of other activities from organic to sheep and goats milk etc will allow conventional farms to consolidate their investment.

Say my name · 01-06-2021 10:55pm

It's the Biological conference Water.
Although biodiversity is welcomed for the increased biology and for wildlife.

It was named that way as it was to embrace ways of using biology both plant and soil to benefit agriculture and farmers pockets and ultimately human health.

All the speakers have that ethos.

And they do say what causes harm as well as the good. Otherwise nothing would be learned.
It's up to the farmer then to listen or not and apply or not.

02-06-2021 12:02am

Say my name wrote: »

It's the Biological conference Water.
Although biodiversity is welcomed for the increased biology and for wildlife.

It was named that way as it was to embrace ways of using biology both plant and soil to benefit agriculture and farmers pockets and ultimately human health.

All the speakers have that ethos.

And they do say what causes harm as well as the good. Otherwise nothing would be learned.
It's up to the farmer then to listen or not and apply or not.

Biodiversity is the byproduct

rounders · 05-06-2021 11:37pm

Something that might interest people, there is research taking place in Ireland on Biorefinery of Grass they are essentially extracting excess protein from grass to replace Soya Bean imports, create a probiotic, organic fertilizer and another revenue stream for farmers

Webinar here
https://youtu.be/TZ6uSbWWrZw

Twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/BiorefineryGlas

Say my name · 07-06-2021 9:12pm

Just read that in organic farming in New Zealand, it's a requirement to be increasing or maintaining soil carbon levels over three years.

Markcheese · 08-06-2021 9:59pm

Say my name wrote: »

Just read that in organic farming in New Zealand, it's a requirement to be increasing or maintaining soil carbon levels over three years.

Who measures ?

Say my name · 08-06-2021 10:50pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Who measures ?

Don't know. It was on a nz forum so fairly sure it was in nz.

Organic inspectors?
The way it was put was it was a measure even if tilling ground. So you'd have to plan to have it back in grass in those three just to maintain a level.

Water John · 09-06-2021 11:22am

There will have to be a international standard method of measuring soil carbon. Also will have to have a method of measuring carbon sequestration by hedgerows and smaller trees. Think their is some system for this second one being developed in Australia.

Water John · 15-06-2021 9:46am

Organic farming is being discussed today in the Oireachtas today. The sub committee can be viewed in the link in the art:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/organic-farming-to-be-todays-oireachtas-committee-focus/

rounders · 21-06-2021 2:29pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/project-that-aims-to-make-5-000-dairy-farms-climate-neutral-awarded-2-million-1.4598785

Farm Zero C has got €2m funding. It's Carbery Coop trying to build a climate neutral dairy farm.

Interesting for the future of Organic. The lines will get even more blurred by the difference between conventional and organic dairy for the ordinary punter on the street if they implement on the 5000 farms they are hoping for. I welcome it overall though, we need to more towards this as a country instead of green washing like Origin Green

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYzq-y_CJj4

Say my name · 21-06-2021 4:35pm

A bit of brown washing going there though.
This waste stream. What river does it flow into?

Basically just said their plans are to build anaerobic digesters and centralize collections of slurry from farms.
Who benefits?
The owners of the ad plants selling the energy to the grid.

Mooooo · 21-06-2021 5:21pm

Say my name wrote: »

A bit of brown washing going there though.
This waste stream. What river does it flow into?

Basically just said their plans are to build anaerobic digesters and centralize collections of slurry from farms.
Who benefits?
The owners of the ad plants selling the energy to the grid.

Thats a different setup, the AD plants thing is called Project Clover, am also skeptical of it.
The zero C farm is in Shinagh outside Bandon, and more about on farm methods

Say my name · 21-06-2021 5:26pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Thats a different setup, the AD plants thing is called Project Clover, am also skeptical of it.
The zero C farm is in Shinagh outside Bandon, and more about on farm methods

The 2nd and 3rd paragraph of the Irish Times article linked above.

rounders · 21-06-2021 5:46pm

Say my name wrote: »

The 2nd and 3rd paragraph of the Irish Times article linked above.

The Farm Zero C programme led by Professor Kevin O’Connor is working with Shinagh farm near Bandon to help it achieve net-zero emissions by 2027 with plans to extend the strategy to a further 5,000 farms within five years.

As part of the SFI Zero Emissions Challenge, the Farm Zero C project will tackle emissions from animals, slurries and fertiliser use by using “integrated renewable energy and bio-refining” of agricultural waste streams.

The emissions piece, they are looking at additives in the feed and mixes grasses (see Youtube link from my previous post).

On the Bio-refining, I think they are talking about below. It's Carbery that is heading up the Biorefinery of Grass project also. They mentioned in the webinar I think that they will investigate further if Farm Zero C goes ahead

On the topic of anaerobic digestion, it is a great concept, I've visited one in Kildare but as the operator told me, it's only viable with massive government supports. It's the capital upfront costs that kills it he said.

rounders wrote: »

Something that might interest people, there is research taking place in Ireland on Biorefinery of Grass they are essentially extracting excess protein from grass to replace Soya Bean imports, create a probiotic, organic fertilizer and another revenue stream for farmers

Webinar here
https://youtu.be/TZ6uSbWWrZw

Twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/BiorefineryGlas

Mooooo · 21-06-2021 5:53pm

If its by reducing fertiliser emissions, clover and LESS is prob the most cost effective but the clover will take a lot of management and the bolloxing with clover safe sprays etc could make it difficult as well. Majority of us view slurry as an asset not waste as perceived by those outside ag

Say my name · 21-06-2021 6:36pm

Mooooo wrote: »

If its by reducing fertiliser emissions, clover and LESS is prob the most cost effective but the clover will take a lot of management and the bolloxing with clover safe sprays etc could make it difficult as well. Majority of us view slurry as an asset not waste as perceived by those outside ag

Majority view it as an asset currently.
In a few years when all the systems are decided on and running, the majority will view it as a valuable carbon asset. But the systems will be already in place then that your slurry will be legislated as a waste and farmers will have to pay the A.D. plants to take your 'waste' to save the planet.
The farmer then will get 'fertilizer' from the A.D. plants with 'fertilizer' from other human related industries mixed in. All safe of course to put carbon into the soil and save the planet.
Meanwhile the transport ferrying all this around will run on unicorn blessings.

All I'm saying is people need to have their eyes open on all this. There's going be lots of shaming going on in the next few years. All for the sole purpose of making money from other people's carbon. And probably getting a worse product back in return if it does come back which even if it does won't be your own and out of your control.
The next few years will decide the next hundred.

Water John · 22-06-2021 12:59pm

Mooooo wrote: »

If its by reducing fertiliser emissions, clover and LESS is prob the most cost effective but the clover will take a lot of management and the bolloxing with clover safe sprays etc could make it difficult as well. Majority of us view slurry as an asset not waste as perceived by those outside ag

Those measures will achieve a bit and are a first step. The ambition set in Shinagh is very high. An earlier realisable target might also be an option to include. This might be something in the order of 50%. These would identify technology and practices that could be relatively easily have widespread adoption in this country.
If that were to happen, then all the talk about cutting herd size, would be for nought as a better outcome would be achieved.

Markcheese · 22-06-2021 3:37pm

It'll be interesting to see a breakdown of the costs for the different parts of the research farm out in bandon..
But are they spending 2 million reinventing the wheel ? Teagasc has done loads of research on low input dairy grazing system ( solohead I think )

blue5000 · 22-06-2021 3:55pm

Say my name wrote: »

Majority view it as an asset currently.
In a few years when all the systems are decided on and running, the majority will view it as a valuable carbon asset. But the systems will be already in place then that your slurry will be legislated as a waste and farmers will have to pay the A.D. plants to take your 'waste' to save the planet.
The farmer then will get 'fertilizer' from the A.D. plants with 'fertilizer' from other human related industries mixed in. All safe of course to put carbon into the soil and save the planet.
Meanwhile the transport ferrying all this around will run on unicorn blessings.

All I'm saying is people need to have their eyes open on all this. There's going be lots of shaming going on in the next few years. All for the sole purpose of making money from other people's carbon. And probably getting a worse product back in return if it does come back which even if it does won't be your own and out of your control.
The next few years will decide the next hundred.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Say. Let's say you have to transport 100.000 gallons of slurry or 1000 tons of maize or grass feedstock to an AD then transport the liquid back again how much carbon is that going to burn?

Soil carbon on organic tillage farms needs to be looked at. Ploughing is the only way organic farmers can establish a crop in this country. But it has been ignored so far. I think this money would be better spent researching how to grow cereals organically using min till methods, instead of spending it hauling slurry around West Cork.

Castlekeeper · 22-06-2021 4:21pm

blue5000 wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Say. Let's say you have to transport 100.000 gallons of slurry or 1000 tons of maize or grass feedstock to an AD then transport the liquid back again how much carbon is that going to burn?

Soil carbon on organic tillage farms needs to be looked at. Ploughing is the only way organic farmers can establish a crop in this country. But it has been ignored so far. I think this money would be better spent researching how to grow cereals organically using min till methods, instead of spending it hauling slurry around West Cork.

Or maybe grow alternative crops or mixes organically, that require less cultivation.
Focus on what works rather than what doesn't.

This €2m would by the farm ffs, and I'd say is basically going to be spent crunching numbers until they get an answer that suits them, whence the click will be stopped ala a Donald Trump style election.
There's nothing to suggest its remotely achievable at the minute a bit of hit and hope and PR to buy time.

yosemitesam1 · 22-06-2021 6:10pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Or maybe grow alternative crops or mixes organically, that require less cultivation.
Focus on what works rather than what doesn't.

This €2m would by the farm ffs, and I'd say is basically going to be spent crunching numbers until they get an answer that suits them, whence the click will be stopped ala a Donald Trump style election.
There's nothing to suggest its remotely achievable at the minute a bit of hit and hope and PR to buy time.

Much much more than 2m has been awarded to teagasc for ghg reduction research over the last 20 years. Money doesn't go very far when academics are spending it

rounders · 22-06-2021 7:06pm

Personally I prefer this group getting it rather then Teagasc.

Teagasc don't seem to branch out into unusual areas, they seem to confine to a specific area. I'm not suggesting our research group shouldn't do any more research, just that it's nice to get a different perspective

Water John · 23-06-2021 5:10pm

It needs to be fully audited and verified. No ignoring the road diesel etc. Some research places draw in feed etc and it never appears on the books. Has to be transparent, no more greenwashing.

Siamsa Sessions · 23-06-2021 7:46pm

Any recommendations for books on soil that would suit a beginner?

I was looking up The Soil Owners Manual earlier. Would this be a good start?

yosemitesam1 · 23-06-2021 7:59pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Any recommendations for books on soil that would suit a beginner?

I was looking up The Soil Owners Manual earlier. Would this be a good start?

What sort of perspective, soil health or understanding soil tests and the likes

Siamsa Sessions · 23-06-2021 8:31pm

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What sort of perspective, soil health or understanding soil tests and the likes

Soil health I think. Would understanding characteristics and tests come after that?

23-06-2021 8:37pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Any recommendations for books on soil that would suit a beginner?

I was looking up The Soil Owners Manual earlier. Would this be a good start?

Teaming with Microbes. Soil is fun once you go down the rabbit hole so to speak. Understand the relationship between the living plant and the biology below and above the surface.

Water John · 24-06-2021 7:43pm

Been promising myself to get this:
https://nots.ie/product/for-the-love-of-soil/

Really liked both Nicole Masters and Christine Jones at the Biological Conf.

SouthWesterly · 26-06-2021 10:38pm

Water John wrote: »

Been promising myself to get this:
https://nots.ie/product/for-the-love-of-soil/

Really liked both Nicole Masters and Christine Jones at the Biological Conf.

Just read a sample on amazon kindle. Interesting book.

organic farming

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