organic farming

endainoz

JohnChadwick wrote: »

Can you be in the new REPS and the OFS simultaneously?

In Tranche 2 of the OFS which ends in 2023, but assume that REPS starts in Jan 2023. Could there be another opening up for REPS in 2024?

I'd assume it's the same as GLAS, so you can be in both schemes at once, but you can't claim both at the same time. I'm in both schemes but 11.5 ha is part of the GLAS (LIPP and WBC). So although that land is farmed organically, I don't get an organic premium for it. The GLAS payment works out better for that land area anyway.

Water John

Just note that a lot of the New REPS will be works to simply draw the full BPS, AFAIK. Calling it REPS is a bit misleading as it really won't mean extra payment. But I think the Organic payments will be extra.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

Just note that a lot of the New REPS will be works to simply draw the full BPS, AFAIK. Calling it REPS is a bit misleading as it really won't mean extra payment. But I think the Organic payments will be extra.

Yeah that's a good point actually, the new scheme will basically be compulsory if people want to keep their BPS at the same level. I can see it causing problems for the intensive lads.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Just note that a lot of the New REPS will be works to simply draw the full BPS, AFAIK. Calling it REPS is a bit misleading as it really won't mean extra payment. But I think the Organic payments will be extra.

endainoz wrote: »

Yeah that's a good point actually, the new scheme will basically be compulsory if people want to keep their BPS at the same level. I can see it causing problems for the intensive lads.

Have I missed something important as my understanding is different.

The BPS is to be split into two different things, the BISS payment and the Eco Scheme payment.

The "new" *coughbull****cough" REPS is a different payment/scheme, and to draw that payment down one will have to partake in actions above and beyond the levels of the BISS and Eco Scheme.

JohnChadwick

Water John wrote: »

Just note that a lot of the New REPS will be works to simply draw the full BPS, AFAIK. Calling it REPS is a bit misleading as it really won't mean extra payment. But I think the Organic payments will be extra.

Not with you there. Could you give a practical example of what this point is getting at? Thanks.

endainoz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have I missed something important as my understanding is different.

The BPS is to be split into two different things, the BISS payment and the Eco Scheme payment.

The "new" *coughbull****cough" REPS is a different payment/scheme, and to draw that payment down one will have to partake in actions above and beyond the levels of the BISS and Eco Scheme.

You might be right there, maybe we could do with some more information from the dept about it.

Water John

Good points on BISS etc and gone back to check.
A thing called 'Conditionality' are requirements set down as either Statutory Management Requirements (SMR's) or Good Agricultural and Environmental Conditions (GAEC's) which must be met by any individual who wishes to receive Direct Payments.
Eco-Schemes It is proposed that each Member States must provide a voluntary annual scheme or schemes for the climate or environment. These schemes will go beyond conditionality requirements and replace 'greening'.

Strangely, organic farming is listed as one of the things that could be a Eco system.
Also agro-ecology
carbon farming
precision farming
husbandry practices

Courtesy of Farming Ind Tues 2nd Feb 2021

This will be complicated. The thing on Organic being annual is a contradiction as one needs two years conversion. An Organic farmer can't operate on an annual basis.

JohnChadwick

I am full symbol organic but understand that you can buy 10% replacement breeding stock from Conventional Farms.

So, if I buy 3 conventional cows now that are due to calve in May this year - then are the calves organic?

Water John

Not sure of the 10% rule but think the cows would have to be on the farm for 6 months before calving.

endainoz

JohnChadwick wrote: »

I am full symbol organic but understand that you can buy 10% replacement breeding stock from Conventional Farms.

So, if I buy 3 conventional cows now that are due to calve in May this year - then are the calves organic?

As far as I know you can't buy them in calf. You can get a derrogation to buy non organic heifers for "breeding purposes" ie: you'll have to put them in calf yourself. It does boggle the mind a bit alright, seen as your stock bull can be bought conventionally.

JohnChadwick

Noticed the word heifers here. Is it not possible to buy replacement cows and put them in calf?

Water John

You cannot bring non organic animals onto an organic farm. Any way to not be bound by this would only be through a derogation.

JohnChadwick

Water John wrote: »

You cannot bring non organic animals onto an organic farm. Any way to not be bound by this would only be through a derogation.

Yea you can bring in 10% commercial breeding stock. Just throw in the derogation for it.

But do these have to be heifers or can you bring in cows?

Water John

Don't know but possibly not in calf. If you're with with IOFGA, ring Angela.

rounders

Got this in the door this morning. Thought it might interest some here in case you didn't receive it and aren't already in GLAS or Organics

Birdnuts

Read something last week in the British Farming Press about sales of organic produce there being at an all time high in the UK. Especially big demand for veg, pork and steak mince!!

Water John

Did someone post here that or elsewhere that beef here is down in price at the factories? Was hoping the story was incorrect, certainly no reason for it.
It's the opposite to what the industry expected, people actually raised their food standard. It was a mix of factors, people had the time, lockdown together and something they could affect. hope the new appreciation of good food lasts.

tractorporn

Water John wrote: »

Did someone post here that or elsewhere that beef here is down in price at the factories? Was hoping the story was incorrect, certainly no reason for it.
It's the opposite to what the industry expected, people actually raised their food standard. It was a mix of factors, people had the time, lockdown together and something they could affect. hope the new appreciation of good food lasts.

Yeah John good herdsmen have dropped to 4.40 this week.

Water John

tractorporn wrote: »

Yeah John good herdsmen have dropped to 4.40 this week.

So has the price of steak dropped in Germany? Thanks for the info.

tractorporn

JohnChadwick wrote: »

Noticed the word heifers here. Is it not possible to buy replacement cows and put them in calf?

Hey yes you can buy in calf heifers but for the calves to be considered as organic the heifers must be on your farm for 3 months before they calve. You can't buy non organic cow's it has to be heifers which haven't calved yet

tractorporn

Water John wrote: »

So has the price of steak dropped in Germany? Thanks for the info.

Wish I had better news its very early in the year for the price to be dropping.

There's a rumour that Larry has been bought out by the Brazilians, wouldn't be the best of news for organic beef price.

Water John

Thanks tractor, knew the animal couldn't calf straight away, but was wrong on the time length.
Interesting if he's bought out, would make sense for them. They might mask it for a few years like they did before with Master Meats.
Pity the organic beef export trade was consolidated.

JohnChadwick

tractorporn wrote: »

Wish I had better news its very early in the year for the price to be dropping.

There's a rumour that Larry has been bought out by the Brazilians, wouldn't be the best of news for organic beef price.

Like good herdsmen is bought out?

Thanks for the comment re buying heifers. Will clarify with iofga in any case.

Base price

JohnChadwick wrote: »

Like good herdsmen is bought out?

Thanks for the comment re buying heifers. Will clarify with iofga in any case.

There is a rumour going around that they were bought out by JBS in Brazil.
https://jbs.com.br/en/about/who-we-are/

Water John

Question lads and lassies, if ye were to grow oats, would ye go for winter or spring oats?

blue5000

Water John wrote: »

Question lads and lassies, if ye were to grow oats, would ye go for winter or spring oats?

As in right now? Spring. But have heard of winter oats getting a quick grazing in the spring so might be worth it just for that early bight.

Water John

In deciding which organic oats I might grow over time. I'll wait and set winter oars later in the year if that's the better option, but would set now this spring equally. It's the long term choice I'm after. Would be at about 6/700ft, so grazing the winter oats wouldn't probably be a consideration.

Birdnuts

Water John wrote: »

In deciding which organic oats I might grow over time. I'll wait and set winter oars later in the year if that's the better option, but would set now this spring equally. It's the long term choice I'm after. Would be at about 6/700ft, so grazing the winter oats wouldn't probably be a consideration.

Spring oats stubbles are great for small birds for get them threw the winter

Water John

Birdnuts wrote: »

Spring oats stubbles are great for small birds for get them threw the winter

Into the future spring cereal crops both organic and conventional will use a cover crop on stubble through the winter. This does a number of things, covers the ground to prevent erosion, provides an active root system for all the life under the ground, provides nitrogen for the following crop.
Hope your birds find it a helpful habitat for the winter. The Spring oats might have been undersown with crimson and medic clovers (Tom Fouhy suggestion) for example. This crop is then terminated before the next cereal is set.

148multi

Water John wrote: »

Question lads and lassies, if ye were to grow oats, would ye go for winter or spring oats?

What part of the country are you in