Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

Porklife · 10-06-2021 11:08pm

sabat wrote: »

Mod: Time for a holiday from the forum given your recent contributions

Out of interest, may I ask what the issue is with Antares post? To me it reas as a reasonable opinion, just curious why she got asked to no longer post here

astrofool · 10-06-2021 11:10pm

Porklife wrote: »

Out of interest, may I ask what the issue is with Antares post? To me it reas as a reasonable opinion, just curious why she got asked to no longer post here

It was sabat who was banned after posting nonsense about the magical spike protein that's all over the tinfoil hat sites.

10-06-2021 11:10pm

Porklife wrote: »

Out of interest, may I ask what the issue is with Antares post? To me it reas as a reasonable opinion, just curious why she got asked to no longer post here

It's Sabat that was banned, not Antares

o1s1n · 10-06-2021 11:13pm

sligeach wrote: »

Or if you read the WHO:

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-vaccines

They can't say if the vaccine will offer long-term "protection". So how can anyone say it won't have long-term detrimental affects? They can't. Only time will tell. A whole load of people talking about ongoing research, meanwhile, they're asking people to carry on getting vaccinated. They're learning as they go along, and we're like guinea pigs. I won't be part of that, thanks.

How exactly do you think historical vaccination programmes worked?

astrofool · 10-06-2021 11:14pm

sligeach wrote: »

Or if you read the WHO:

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-vaccines

They can't say if the vaccine will offer long-term "protection". So how can anyone say it won't have long-term detrimental affects? They can't. Only time will tell. A whole load of people talking about ongoing research, meanwhile, they're asking people to carry on getting vaccinated. They're learning as they go along, and we're like guinea pigs. I won't be part of that, thanks.

But you're happy to catch a virus that causes severe disease, up to and including death, where the long term effects are unknown? vs. taking a vaccine using proven technology that's been given to hundreds of millions of people.

I mean, you can do the mental gymnastics whatever way you want, your decision is not a rational one and that's your choice not to be rational.

Porklife · 10-06-2021 11:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's Sabat that was banned, not Antares

Good

sligeach · 10-06-2021 11:33pm

astrofool wrote: »

But you're happy to catch a virus that causes severe disease, up to and including death, where the long term effects are unknown? vs. taking a vaccine using proven technology that's been given to hundreds of millions of people.

I mean, you can do the mental gymnastics whatever way you want, your decision is not a rational one and that's your choice not to be rational.

astrofool wrote: »

don't be stupid and get vaccinated.

Ya...! Sure thing, I'm going to listen to an insulting randomer on the internet. You have your opinion, I have mine. You, however, state yours as fact. I'm not telling anyone not to get vaccinated, this is my personal choice. My decision is rational in my opinion, we'll see if I'm around in a year or few. We'll see if Covid is a distant memory, like many flus before it. I, hopefully, won't be worrying about the long-term affects of a vaccine that was rushed to market, by companies, every one of which was desperate to get their product on the market first.

And most of the people who have been infected severely, and/or died, have been old or have an underlying health condition(s). We can see the numbers in hospital are plummeting because a good portion of those who need the vaccine have gotten it, or at least their first dose. For all I know, I could have had Covid already and been asymptomatic.

runawaybishop · 10-06-2021 11:36pm

sligeach wrote: »

Ya...! Sure thing, I'm going to listen to an insulting randomer on the internet. You have your opinion, I have mine. You, however, state yours as fact. I'm not telling anyone not to get vaccinated, this is my personal choice. My decision is rational in my opinion, we'll see if I'm around in a year or few. We'll see if Covid is a distant memory, like many flus before it. I, hopefully, won't be worrying about the long-term affects of a vaccine that was rushed to market, by companies, every one of which was desperate to get their product on the market first.

And most of the people who have been infected severely, and/or died, have been old or have an underlying health condition(s). We can see the numbers in hospital are plummeting because a good portion of those who need the vaccine have gotten it, or at least their first dose. For all I know, I could have had Covid already and been asymptomatic.

Basically it comes down to the fact that you value your opinion over medical scientists. You feel you know more than them. Why is that?

10-06-2021 11:38pm

astrofool wrote: »

But you're happy to catch a virus that causes severe disease, up to and including death, where the long term effects are unknown? vs. taking a vaccine using proven technology that's been given to hundreds of millions of people.

I mean, you can do the mental gymnastics whatever way you want, your decision is not a rational one and that's your choice not to be rational.

Rationality is ignored in the presence of fear, anger and affection.
If the poster is fearful, it's up to people to reassure them, not discriminate and reduce their right to free movement. RTE "40 of people will never know they have Covid 19". RTE 80% of people will have mild to moderate disease without hospitilsations. Fact 92% at least of deaths were over 65 and as much as 95 of those deaths were people with underlined issues which will have contributed to or caused their deaths.

I agree the benefits outweigh the risks but you'll get you herd immunity if martin is to be believed "Ireland has the highest uptake in Europe"...remember this is from a party who faked their identity to politically manipulate an electorate..

It's not the Vaccine so much, its the salesman that some don't trust!

10-06-2021 11:39pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Basically it comes down to the fact that you value your opinion over medical scientists. You feel you know more than them. Why is that?

Because loads of them have proven to be charlatans with good press!!

sligeach · 10-06-2021 11:48pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Basically it comes down to the fact that you value your opinion over medical scientists. You feel you know more than them. Why is that?

Show me where I said that? I'm likely to only be harming myself, if at all. I'll take that "chance". Everyone who has taken and will take the vaccine will see down the road what their chance brings them.

runawaybishop · 10-06-2021 11:49pm

rusty cole wrote: »

Because loads of them have proven to be charlatans with good press!!

Sorry, I was taking about proven medical scientists, not lads off bitchute.

runawaybishop · 10-06-2021 11:50pm

sligeach wrote: »

Show me where I said that? I'm likely to only be harming myself, if at all. I'll take that "chance". Everyone who has taken and will take the vaccine will see down the road what their chance brings them.

Medical scientists and our own health system are encouraging everyone to get vaccinated. Why do you feel you know more than them?

John_Rambo · 10-06-2021 11:55pm

sligeach wrote: »

Ya...! Sure thing, I'm going to listen to an insulting randomer on the internet. You have your opinion, I have mine. You, however, state yours as fact. I'm not telling anyone not to get vaccinated, this is my personal choice. My decision is rational in my opinion, we'll see if I'm around in a year or few. We'll see if Covid is a distant memory, like many flus before it. I, hopefully, won't be worrying about the long-term affects of a vaccine that was rushed to market, by companies, every one of which was desperate to get their product on the market first.

And most of the people who have been infected severely, and/or died, have been old or have an underlying health condition(s). We can see the numbers in hospital are plummeting because a good portion of those who need the vaccine have gotten it, or at least their first dose. For all I know, I could have had Covid already and been asymptomatic.

Lots of Me, Mine, My, I'm & I in this post. It's like this "flu" is all about you.

sligeach · 11-06-2021 12:29am

John_Rambo wrote: »

Lots of Me, Mine, My, I'm & I in this post. It's like this "flu" is all about you.

It's almost as if I replied to a post addressing "me" that said, "You're...you...you...your...your". :eek:

astrofool · 11-06-2021 12:35am

rusty cole wrote: »

Rationality is ignored in the presence of fear, anger and affection.
If the poster is fearful, it's up to people to reassure them, not discriminate and reduce their right to free movement. RTE "40 of people will never know they have Covid 19". RTE 80% of people will have mild to moderate disease without hospitilsations. Fact 92% at least of deaths were over 65 and as much as 95 of those deaths were people with underlined issues which will have contributed to or caused their deaths.

I agree the benefits outweigh the risks but you'll get you herd immunity if martin is to be believed "Ireland has the highest uptake in Europe"...remember this is from a party who faked their identity to politically manipulate an electorate..

It's not the Vaccine so much, its the salesman that some don't trust!

Completely, however this poster is going the thinly veiled anti-vax route of posting questions or ignoring data that doesn't suit their agenda, witness them getting angry as their reasoning falls apart almost immediately, the posts are for others to realise how ridiculous people like this are.

I mean does someone rational really think they're on the clever side when hundreds of millions and soon billions of people have been vaccinated before them, with data showing the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines vs. a disease that has killed people of all ages.

sligeach · 11-06-2021 1:29am

astrofool wrote: »

Completely, however this poster is going the thinly veiled anti-vax route of posting questions or ignoring data that doesn't suit their agenda, witness them getting angry as their reasoning falls apart almost immediately, the posts are for others to realise how ridiculous people like this are.

I mean does someone rational really think they're on the clever side when hundreds of millions and soon billions of people have been vaccinated before them, with data showing the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines vs. a disease that has killed people of all ages.

I hope you're not referring to me.

tom1ie · 11-06-2021 7:39am

daydorunrun wrote: »

In fairness you quote several posts asking 'Can you transmit it?' which seemed to suggest only unvaccinated people can transmit it.

When did I say that?
I asked does the vaccine reduce transmission.

tom1ie · 11-06-2021 7:45am

sligeach wrote: »

Ya...! Sure thing, I'm going to listen to an insulting randomer on the internet. You have your opinion, I have mine. You, however, state yours as fact. I'm not telling anyone not to get vaccinated, this is my personal choice. My decision is rational in my opinion, we'll see if I'm around in a year or few. We'll see if Covid is a distant memory, like many flus before it. I, hopefully, won't be worrying about the long-term affects of a vaccine that was rushed to market, by companies, every one of which was desperate to get their product on the market first.

And most of the people who have been infected severely, and/or died, have been old or have an underlying health condition(s). We can see the numbers in hospital are plummeting because a good portion of those who need the vaccine have gotten it, or at least their first dose. For all I know, I could have had Covid already and been asymptomatic.

Do you not think your being a bit selfish by not getting the vaccine as you are NOT lowering your potential to transmit the virus by NOT getting the vaccine which lowers transmission rates.
You being perfectly healthy and taking your chances with the virus is completely irrelevant to getting transmission rates down so that we (as a human race) can eradicate this virus.

tom1ie · 11-06-2021 7:47am

sligeach wrote: »

Show me where I said that? I'm likely to only be harming myself, if at all. I'll take that "chance". Everyone who has taken and will take the vaccine will see down the road what their chance brings them.

Wrong.
You can pass the virus on.
If your vaccinated the chances of passing it on is lowered.
I mean this isn't that hard to understand!!

Supercell · 11-06-2021 7:55am

tom1ie wrote: »

Wrong.
You can pass the virus on.
If your vaccinated the chances of passing it on is lowered.
I mean this isn't that hard to understand!!

The point is, if you can still pass it on when fully vaccinated (and the jury is still out on that, but the evidance is increasinly looking like it is very low probability) then we enter the realms of acceptable risk.
People do it everytime they drive, insurance actuarys use it to calculate premiums, engineers do it when designing bridges and so on.
Even if it is transmissable after vaccination, the number may be very small indeed, maybe akin to the possibility of transmitting it outdoors and in the long run we may just have to accept that and get on with normal life.

Wibbs · 11-06-2021 8:12am

rusty cole wrote: »

Rationality is ignored in the presence of fear, anger and affection.

This. The pandemic has illustrated this from the start. Quite naturally too. We didn't know what we were dealing with and terrible images of what was happening in places like Italy would rattle anyone's cages. Remember the fears being ramped up even in this forum in the early days. The "projections" types having a field day of potential woes to come, the doctor posting here blasting their groceries with UV lamps, hell I was out with the bleach on mine myself and bogroll panic in the wider world and so forth. We were right to be fearful and cautious and lockdowns, masks, social distancing and latterly vaccines were the right road to go down and were necessary to contain things.

However over a year into this we know more about the virus and its nature and its results and the plain fact is that Covid 19 is a mild illness in the vast majority of those infected. Thankfully. Deaths are always a tragedy to those who die and their loved ones and we should always be mindful of that, however going by the wikipedia page on the numbers from this in Ireland, for those under 65 who died(408) out of those who tested positive for Covid19(265,754) the risk of death comes out at 0.15%. Now that's against a figure of positive tests, the figure who contracted this virus but who were never tested is up for grabs but it's going to be significantly higher, which reduces that risk further. It's a tiny figure.

If we look at all deaths(4,949) out of those tested positive we get a figure of 1.8%. Again the numbers not tested who were positive will reduce that figure overall. Even so, that's very much higher than any average seasonal flu. This is not "just a flu". That much is clear. However the mean and median age of deaths was 81 and 83 years of age respectively. That's higher than the average life expectancy for Irish men and the the median is one year below the average life expectancy for Irish women.

Now that's "just" deaths, the problem was the impact of those hospitalised on the health service and we needed to flatten the curve to stop them being overwhelmed and again the lockdowns etc helped to do that. However that has caused major problems outside of this pox, with people with other diseases and conditions struggling to get treatment. Lord knows how much that's going to bite us in the arse down the line. Never mind the already stretched and inaedquate mental health services because of the personal effects of this pandemic. Never mind the economic and life changes going forward. But again we needed to do it. Even with the precautions and the small minority who got severe illness we were close enough to being stretched beyond capacity.

All that said we're 18 months into this and we are coming out of it. The majority of the very at risk people have either survived the dose or are vaccinated against it. It is not the horribly infectious and deadly disease we feared(and were right to fear) and we need to start moving on and the sooner the better.

tom1ie · 11-06-2021 8:12am

Supercell wrote: »

The point is, if you can still pass it on when fully vaccinated (and the jury is still out on that, but the evidance is increasinly looking like it is very low probability) then we enter the realms of acceptable risk.
People do it everytime they drive, insurance actuarys use it to calculate premiums, engineers do it when designing bridges and so on.
Even if it is transmissable after vaccination, the number may be very small indeed, maybe akin to the possibility of transmitting it outdoors and in the long run we may just have to accept that and get on with normal life.

So the point is reduce the risk as much as possible by everyone taking a vaccine.

tom1ie · 11-06-2021 8:23am

Wibbs wrote: »

This. The pandemic has illustrated this from the start. Quite naturally too. We didn't know what we were dealing with and terrible images of what was happening in places like Italy would rattle anyone's cages. Remember the fears being ramped up even in this forum in the early days. The "projections" types having a field day of potential woes to come, the doctor posting here blasting their groceries with UV lamps, hell I was out with the bleach on mine myself and bogroll panic in the wider world and so forth. We were right to be fearful and cautious and lockdowns, masks, social distancing and latterly vaccines were the right road to go down and were necessary to contain things.

However over a year into this we know more about the virus and its nature and its results and the plain fact is that Covid 19 is a mild illness in the vast majority of those infected. Thankfully. Deaths are always a tragedy to those who die and their loved ones and we should always be mindful of that, however going by the wikipedia page on the numbers from this in Ireland, for those under 65 who died(408) out of those who tested positive for Covid19(265,754) the risk of death comes out at 0.15%. Now that's against a figure of positive tests, the figure who contracted this virus but who were never tested is up for grabs but it's going to be significantly higher, which reduces that risk further. It's a tiny figure.

If we look at all deaths(4,949) out of those tested positive we get a figure of 1.8%. Again the numbers not tested who were positive will reduce that figure overall. Even so, that's very much higher than any average seasonal flu. This is not "just a flu". That much is clear. However the mean and median age of deaths was 81 and 83 years of age respectively. That's higher than the average life expectancy for Irish men and the the median is one year below the average life expectancy for Irish women.

Now that's "just" deaths, the problem was the impact of those hospitalised on the health service and we needed to flatten the curve to stop them being overwhelmed and again the lockdowns etc helped to do that. However that has caused major problems outside of this pox, with people with other diseases and conditions struggling to get treatment. Lord knows how much that's going to bite us in the arse down the line. Never mind the already stretched and inaedquate mental health services because of the personal effects of this pandemic. Never mind the economic and life changes going forward. But again we needed to do it. Even with the precautions and the small minority who got severe illness we were close enough to being stretched beyond capacity.

All that said we're 18 months into this and we are coming out of it. The majority of the very at risk people have either survived the dose or are vaccinated against it. It is not the horribly infectious and deadly disease we feared(and were right to fear) and we need to start moving on and the sooner the better.

Indeed well said.
The way we move on is by taking the vaccine to reduce reduce transmission.

astrofool · 11-06-2021 9:28am

sligeach wrote: »

I hope you're not referring to me.

Yes, definitely not talking about the person who grabbed a selective quote from europa and then rather than answering, replied with a selective quote from the WHO site, those are some long URL you managed to type in without hitting any other sites or pages on the way there

Marty Bird · 11-06-2021 9:35am

astrofool wrote: »

But you're happy to catch a virus that causes severe disease, up to and including death, where the long term effects are unknown? vs. taking a vaccine using proven technology that's been given to hundreds of millions of people.

I mean, you can do the mental gymnastics whatever way you want, your decision is not a rational one and that's your choice not to be rational.

Sure millions of people have had the virus and it’s been nothing for them at all, life is full of risk if people look at the risk of virus is low to them then so be it.

tom1ie · 11-06-2021 9:46am

Marty Bird wrote: »

Sure millions of people have had the virus and it’s been nothing for them at all, life is full of risk if people look at the risk of virus is low to them then so be it.

But what about passing that risk on to someone it might actually harm?
Are you ok with that?

Wibbs · 11-06-2021 10:14am

tom1ie wrote: »

But what about passing that risk on to someone it might actually harm?
Are you ok with that?

If Marty decides not to be vaccinated the risks of him passing on the virus to someone it might actually harm, an already small percentage of risk, the majority of whom are vaccinated will make it an even smaller percentage. There will be people who won't take the vaccine and we have to live with that fact and the fact that the risks are significantly lower than we feared anyway and certainly lower than we, or some, are fearing now.

astrofool wrote:

I mean does someone rational really think they're on the clever side when hundreds of millions and soon billions of people have been vaccinated before them, with data showing the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines vs. a disease that has killed people of all ages.

A disease that killed people of all ages while on the surface accurate is in reality not so much and with respect is more hype and fear than fact. The percentage of mortalities in the under 65's is tiny - in Ireland 0.15% - and again that's set against the figures we have for confirmed positive tests. The number of infected but intested will of course be much higher than that which will further reduce that number/percentage(as a small example among those I know I'm one of the few who have been tested because of work and the only one who has been tested multiple times). The vast majority of deaths have been in the over 70's and over 80's. The mean and median of which in Ireland corresponds extremely closely with the average longevity stats for Irish people. This is not a "disease that has killed people of all ages", at least not in the way you're implying or believe. In fact unlike other pandemics like annual flu it has been remarkably and thankfully avoiding the very young.

Let me reiterate; I'm not saying "this is just a flu", it is more serious than that, and even if it was "just a flu", that kills enough people every year. I am not seeking to minimise the effects, direct and especially indirect of this pox, I am seeking to inject some non fear based reality into the mix.

sligeach · 11-06-2021 11:34am

Eight hospitals report no patients with Covid-19 admitted

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0611/1227522-coronavirus-ireland/

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1403277721837387778

11-06-2021 12:16pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

I think we can, as predicted, deduce from the sudden silence of this thread that the majority of the 283 people that voted NO on the poll are getting vaccinated or will be getting vaccinated. Even the vocal one is.

Nope, still no.

Even more so as the marketing campaign ramps up. Blown away when told by a friend in the US last week that his daughter registered for university and was offered ticket in the weekly raffle for full scholarships, if she got jabbed. Wonder if we'll see that that one here.

Some friends who were reluctant do seem to have succumb to the scaremongers.

"I could loose my job" a few with public and semi-state contracts.

"I want to be able to travel this year". One of those I was with and was gobsmacked, when got a late afternoon call last week if I could go to Africa the next morning. "But your not vaccinated?" Evening walk-in PCR test and was in a west Africa 26 hours later, not a word anywhere along the way about vaccines.

Anyway the poll mentioned "an approved" vaccine? Most of the manufacturers of these vaccines "authorized " for use have not even applied for approval as yet, Pfizer just applied last month.

Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

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