Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

bennyx_o · 22-05-2021 10:25AM

Probes wrote: »

Adverts during practise sessions on Sky now. This is just turning into an advert fest. Are people signed up to the official F1 sub with a VPN? Is it working and is it good? I think I’m going to knock sky on the head, for the price it sticks in my craw that I have to watch the adverts and miss the sport.

There always was ads during practice on Sky. They've added ads to qualifying this season

Probes · 22-05-2021 10:27AM

bennyx_o wrote: »

There always was ads during practice on Sky. They've added ads to qualifying this season

That’s mad, must be that I’m particularly pissed off these days that I’ve only just noticed it! Now I don’t know whether to still be angry about it or just let it slide.

AMKC · 22-05-2021 11:46AM

bennyx_o wrote: »

There always was ads during practice on Sky. They've added ads to qualifying this season

Delighted. Obviously they had to do this to pay for it because they do not have enough fans signing up to the F1 channel but that's Skys fault because they expect us to pay for all the sports channels instead of just the F1 channel. Fu-ck that. Hopefully it will mean less people watching it on Sky and when the next negotiations come around maybe it might go back to free to air just maybe.

Harika · 22-05-2021 11:55AM

I hope we then get the F1 TV App like everyone else. Sky contract goodbye

Inquitus · 22-05-2021 12:19PM

Monaco will stay forever, it is a unique event on the calendar, yes the racing on the TV does not ever come close to being the best of the season, but the full circus in Monaco for a weekend is amazing if you are there in person, and well worth doing once in your lifetime, imho.

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2021 12:44PM

Inquitus wrote: »

Monaco will stay forever, it is a unique event on the calendar, yes the racing on the TV does not ever come close to being the best of the season, but the full circus in Monaco for a weekend is amazing if you are there in person, and well worth doing once in your lifetime, imho.

Yeah of course you're right. It's part of the furniture and will stay no matter how much of a drag it becomes to the sport. Its probably part of the life cycle of anything - if it survives long enough to generate traditions that help it attract fans that's great. Then it's traditions become obligations that will reasonably turn new fans off but it can't shed them because they're traditions.

But on the "you simply have to be there, dahling" argument. How many people attend vs how many people watch on TV and are bored by the unsuitable track? Would half a million attend on a weekend? Let's exaggerate it and say a million people attend d on a weekend and they're very impressed by the setting and the yachts and the glitz and glamour. And 100m people watch the boring race and conclude its a stupid race to have in 2021. That's a ratio of about 1 person having a great time to 100 people seeing a boring race. Is that good value?

Lads, anyone who argues for Monaco can never complain about Paul Ricard being boring.

Probes · 22-05-2021 01:16PM

It’s especially galling when you hear Croft saying “26,000” for that hotel room, “17,000” for this one. Ugh!

quokula · 22-05-2021 02:16PM

Probes wrote: »

It’s especially galling when you hear Croft saying “26,000” for that hotel room, “17,000” for this one. Ugh!

I’ve been to the Monaco GP, you don’t have to actually stay in a hotel at the circuit, there are reliable trains from nearby Cannes and Nice. It was no more expensive than any other GP I’ve been to.

I personally like Monaco because in the era of DRS and tarmac run offs it’s one of the few tracks where mistakes really get punished. It’s produced a fair few great races in the not too distant past too, when tyre wear and traffic could play a huge part in the races. The super durable tyres of recent years leave less interest in that area though.

Car99 · 22-05-2021 08:45PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah of course you're right. It's part of the furniture and will stay no matter how much of a drag it becomes to the sport. Its probably part of the life cycle of anything - if it survives long enough to generate traditions that help it attract fans that's great. Then it's traditions become obligations that will reasonably turn new fans off but it can't shed them because they're traditions.

But on the "you simply have to be there, dahling" argument. How many people attend vs how many people watch on TV and are bored by the unsuitable track? Would half a million attend on a weekend? Let's exaggerate it and say a million people attend d on a weekend and they're very impressed by the setting and the yachts and the glitz and glamour. And 100m people watch the boring race and conclude its a stupid race to have in 2021. That's a ratio of about 1 person having a great time to 100 people seeing a boring race. Is that good value?

Lads, anyone who argues for Monaco can never complain about Paul Ricard being boring.

200, 000 attend race weekend in Monaco which for a city with a population of less than 40k is a massive influx.

barryribs · 22-05-2021 09:42PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lads, anyone who argues for Monaco can never complain about Paul Ricard being boring.

You can't compare the two. Monaco is a great track and one that offers the most challenge to the drivers. The only run off is at St. Devote, on the right hander before the hairpin and the chicane. Add into this the bumpy surface, the walls inches from the car and it is one where the drivers can truly make a difference. The blast up the hill to the blind massenet is fantastic, as is the swimming pool complex. The reason it holds the prestige it does is because it is such a difficult track.

Does it always make exciting races? Absolutely not. But that doesn't mean that its not difficult to drive a car at 150 mph inches from the wall for 78 laps. The spectacle of that alone means it will always deserve a place on the calendar.

22-05-2021 10:56PM

Monaco is at least visually interesting. That's the best we can hope for in 90% of races as it is.
If a first-timer watched a race on one of the nice apron tracks they're mostly boring or if they look nice it's a building that doesn't look great the 20th time it's shown. And even in a lot of "good" races someone who doesn't pay attention is only going to see a DRS pass. Might be interesting the first time but then it's gonna be "Hmm, that seems a bit easy".

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2021 11:33PM

Car99 wrote: »

200, 000 attend race weekend in Monaco which for a city with a population of less than 40k is a massive influx.

200,000 attending and 100,000,000 being bored into submission watching on TV. So a ratio of about 500 people bored to one having a good time at the race. Nobody can claim that's a good ratio and surely nobody would say it's an argument for Monaco being a good race, would they? Like, we're down to saying it's good if you go to the race - isn't that the very, very minimum you should be able to say about a race?

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2021 11:39PM

barryribs wrote: »

You can't compare the two. Monaco is a great track and one that offers the most challenge to the drivers. The only run off is at St. Devote, on the right hander before the hairpin and the chicane. Add into this the bumpy surface, the walls inches from the car and it is one where the drivers can truly make a difference. The blast up the hill to the blind massenet is fantastic, as is the swimming pool complex. The reason it holds the prestige it does is because it is such a difficult track.

Does it always make exciting races? Absolutely not. But that doesn't mean that its not difficult to drive a car at 150 mph inches from the wall for 78 laps. The spectacle of that alone means it will always deserve a place on the calendar.

Ah here. It's on the circuit because it's always been on the circuit, not merit. There's absolutely no way anyone would make an argument for a track like Monaco if it wasn't on the circuit for ages.

Making arguments for Monaco as if it's there on merit is self-delusion. Surely everyone knows it's only there because of it's history and in spite of how terrible it is. It's unsuitable, it's a terrible track, the only thing it has going for it is that it's old. It shows the way F1 wants to die. It should be about innovation and building the future, not being tethered to the past.

El_Duderino 09 · 22-05-2021 11:42PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Monaco is at least visually interesting. That's the best we can hope for in 90% of races as it is.
If a first-timer watched a race on one of the nice apron tracks they're mostly boring or if they look nice it's a building that doesn't look great the 20th time it's shown. And even in a lot of "good" races someone who doesn't pay attention is only going to see a DRS pass. Might be interesting the first time but then it's gonna be "Hmm, that seems a bit easy".

If a friend asked you for a recommendation to get in to F1, would you honestly recommend Monaco?

barryribs · 23-05-2021 06:43AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah here. It's on the circuit because it's always been on the circuit, not merit. There's absolutely no way anyone would make an argument for a track like Monaco if it wasn't on the circuit for ages.

Making arguments for Monaco as if it's there on merit is self-delusion. Surely everyone knows it's only there because of it's history and in spite of how terrible it is. It's unsuitable, it's a terrible track, the only thing it has going for it is that it's old. It shows the way F1 wants to die. It should be about innovation and building the future, not being tethered to the past.

If you were making the decisions would you get rid of it off the calendar and if so, what would you replace it with?

I'm all set for another track in a third world country, built by migrant (read slave) workers, with acres of run of run off and 140 meaningless DRS passes per race. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, there should be consequences for running wide

bennyx_o · 23-05-2021 08:51AM

barryribs wrote: »

I'm all set for another track in a third world country, built by migrant (read slave) workers, with acres of run of run off and 140 meaningless DRS passes per race. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, there should be consequences for running wide

The charm (If you can call it that) of Monaco for me is how close the walls are - the drivers have to be on their game for the whole lap, there's no limping back to the pits for a new front wing or tyre if you make a mistake, chances are it's session or race over much like Le Clerc in Qualifying yesterday or Schumacher in FP3.

Yes the race is generally a procession which is boring, but, with a much higher chance of incidents and retirements, it lends to a higher chance of an outsider winning the race - always nice to cheer the underdog on too!

Captain_Crash · 23-05-2021 09:09AM

bennyx_o wrote: »

it lends to a higher chance of an outsider winning the race - always nice to cheer the underdog on too!

Id say there is less chance of an outsider down the grid car winning in Monaco, sky had a stat yesterday during FP3 that something like in 53 of the last 67 races, the winner has come from the front row!

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2021 09:33AM

barryribs wrote: »

If you were making the decisions would you get rid of it off the calendar and if so, what would you replace it with?

I'm all set for another track in a third world country, built by migrant (read slave) workers, with acres of run of run off and 140 meaningless DRS passes per race. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, there should be consequences for running wide

Yeah, I said all that. Spot on.

In reality, I'd be happy to drop it. Can anyone honestly say they missed it last year?

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2021 09:42AM

bennyx_o wrote: »

The charm (If you can call it that) of Monaco for me is how close the walls are - the drivers have to be on their game for the whole lap, there's no limping back to the pits for a new front wing or tyre if you make a mistake, chances are it's session or race over much like Le Clerc in Qualifying yesterday or Schumacher in FP3.

Yes the race is generally a procession which is boring, but, with a much higher chance of incidents and retirements, it lends to a higher chance of an outsider winning the race - always nice to cheer the underdog on too!

The punishment for mistakes is an interesting point. I'd be fine if they made runoffs damaging to tyres so they shorten their life or make a pitstop necessary. I bet the same fans would oppose those changes for the same reasons they oppose changing Monaco - because its not what they're used to.

We got a taste of it in grrmany 2019 when that drag strip had no traction in the wet and they just slid on it. Likewise, if they want to stop them exceeding track limits. Make a genuine penalty. They can't exceed track limits in Monaco because the limit is a wall. If the track was bordered by a couple of meters of slippy surface and then gravel or tarmac, they wouldn't exceed track limits as it wouldn't be worth it.

But any thing like that represents change and change = bad in f1 these days.

the_pen_turner · 23-05-2021 10:19AM

i like how close monaco is. it is a real challange and the in car footage is insane .
but its as boring as it could be most of the time.
its all well and good having heritage and nostalaga about monaco but the racing is dire
el duderino 09 is right. it can only turn off fans from the sport.

i dont see why they cannot find a few overtaking oertunities in the areas around the current circuit. surely they could add a few bits from the streets around there and make the race worth watching.

Car99 · 23-05-2021 10:23AM

I cancelled sky sports , I dont want to pay now TV €10 for a 24hr pass or the hassle of VPN to get the F1 official stream. Any other way to stream the race today even if commentary is in another language?

tigerboon · 23-05-2021 10:29AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The punishment for mistakes is an interesting point. I'd be fine if they made runoffs damaging to tyres so they shorten their life or make a pitstop necessary. I bet the same fans would oppose those changes for the same reasons they oppose changing Monaco - because its not what they're used to.

We got a taste of it in grrmany 2019 when that drag strip had no traction in the wet and they just slid on it. Likewise, if they want to stop them exceeding track limits. Make a genuine penalty. They can't exceed track limits in Monaco because the limit is a wall. If the track was bordered by a couple of meters of slippy surface and then gravel or tarmac, they wouldn't exceed track limits as it wouldn't be worth it.

But any thing like that represents change and change = bad in f1 these days.

To me the solution is a lot easier. It's just something like the radio fence that keeps the dog from going outside the garden boundary. You put a sensor in the middle of the car that triggers say a 5% power loss for a given time (enough to incur a real penalty). The cable is placed around the track just marginally more than half the car width from the track limits line. 5% loss wouldn't result in sudden deceleration or abnormal low speed so would be safe and given the money involved in F1, is relatively cheap. They already can pin point a cars relative position for DRS

muckwarrior · 23-05-2021 10:40AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If a friend asked you for a recommendation to get in to F1, would you honestly recommend Monaco?

If I wanted to show someone how skilled F1 drivers are, or give them an impression of just how fast they go, I'd show them onboard footage from Monaco. Even after a quarter century of watching F1, I was in awe yesterday watching some of the footage. It was almost as if it was being played at double speed.

Sure, there are rarely overtakes in the race, but the same could be said for other tracks. At least in Monaco there are other aspects that make it appealing.

barryribs · 23-05-2021 11:02AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Id say there is less chance of an outsider down the grid car winning in Monaco, sky had a stat yesterday during FP3 that something like in 53 of the last 67 races, the winner has come from the front row!

Winners from the front row
Austin 100%
Abu Dabi 92%
Barcelona 90%
Istanbul 88%
Suzuka 84%
Interlagos 78%
Paul Ricard 75%
Baku 75%
A1 Ring 73%
Nurburgring 71%
China 69%
Hungaroring 69%
Monaco 68%
Sakhir 67%
Singapore 67%
Silverstone 65%
Montreal 65%
Spa 64%
Melb 63%
Imola 62%
Monza 53%

duploelabs · 23-05-2021 11:08AM

Those who think that it's only exciting when the cars go fast are usually the ones who find monaco boring and don't appreciate the skill inherent in getting around there in the shortest time

flazio · 23-05-2021 11:11AM

You'd swear Monaco was blocking some other epic race like Malaysia or Turkey from being permanently on the calendar the way some nay sayers are passionate about dropping the race. Trust me, they still wouldn't return even if the Monaco slot opened up.

bennyx_o · 23-05-2021 11:30AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Id say there is less chance of an outsider down the grid car winning in Monaco, sky had a stat yesterday during FP3 that something like in 53 of the last 67 races, the winner has come from the front row!

It's the hope that kills you!

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The punishment for mistakes is an interesting point. I'd be fine if they made runoffs damaging to tyres so they shorten their life or make a pitstop necessary. I bet the same fans would oppose those changes for the same reasons they oppose changing Monaco - because its not what they're used to.

We got a taste of it in grrmany 2019 when that drag strip had no traction in the wet and they just slid on it. Likewise, if they want to stop them exceeding track limits. Make a genuine penalty. They can't exceed track limits in Monaco because the limit is a wall. If the track was bordered by a couple of meters of slippy surface and then gravel or tarmac, they wouldn't exceed track limits as it wouldn't be worth it.

But any thing like that represents change and change = bad in f1 these days.

Maybe I'm old school, but I prefer the days of gravel traps than large run off areas. Yeah, it's not nice if you make a mistake and get stuck in it, but, it makes things more interesting and keeps the drivers on their toes. There'd be likely less issue with track limits too if there was a risk of ending up in the gravel.

As you said, though, it'll never happen these days. They need to come up with something that makes these large run off areas less appealing to drivers

23-05-2021 09:49PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/O4b4LAq

Surprised I hadn't seen this before. Very nice.

Harika · 24-05-2021 01:55PM

Max Mosley died, someone who shaped formula one to what it is today. He will be missed

TCP/IP · 24-05-2021 02:09PM

RIP Max, he really shaped F1 into what it is today alongside Bernie.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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