nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Cork Trucker

This is the official Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Any posts that should be in the race weekend threads that are posted in here will get deleted without warning

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Car99

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah of course you're right. It's part of the furniture and will stay no matter how much of a drag it becomes to the sport. Its probably part of the life cycle of anything - if it survives long enough to generate traditions that help it attract fans that's great. Then it's traditions become obligations that will reasonably turn new fans off but it can't shed them because they're traditions.

But on the "you simply have to be there, dahling" argument. How many people attend vs how many people watch on TV and are bored by the unsuitable track? Would half a million attend on a weekend? Let's exaggerate it and say a million people attend d on a weekend and they're very impressed by the setting and the yachts and the glitz and glamour. And 100m people watch the boring race and conclude its a stupid race to have in 2021. That's a ratio of about 1 person having a great time to 100 people seeing a boring race. Is that good value?

Lads, anyone who argues for Monaco can never complain about Paul Ricard being boring.

200, 000 attend race weekend in Monaco which for a city with a population of less than 40k is a massive influx.

quokula

Probes wrote: »

It’s especially galling when you hear Croft saying “26,000” for that hotel room, “17,000” for this one. Ugh!

I’ve been to the Monaco GP, you don’t have to actually stay in a hotel at the circuit, there are reliable trains from nearby Cannes and Nice. It was no more expensive than any other GP I’ve been to.

I personally like Monaco because in the era of DRS and tarmac run offs it’s one of the few tracks where mistakes really get punished. It’s produced a fair few great races in the not too distant past too, when tyre wear and traffic could play a huge part in the races. The super durable tyres of recent years leave less interest in that area though.

Probes

It’s especially galling when you hear Croft saying “26,000” for that hotel room, “17,000” for this one. Ugh!

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote: »

Monaco will stay forever, it is a unique event on the calendar, yes the racing on the TV does not ever come close to being the best of the season, but the full circus in Monaco for a weekend is amazing if you are there in person, and well worth doing once in your lifetime, imho.

Yeah of course you're right. It's part of the furniture and will stay no matter how much of a drag it becomes to the sport. Its probably part of the life cycle of anything - if it survives long enough to generate traditions that help it attract fans that's great. Then it's traditions become obligations that will reasonably turn new fans off but it can't shed them because they're traditions.

But on the "you simply have to be there, dahling" argument. How many people attend vs how many people watch on TV and are bored by the unsuitable track? Would half a million attend on a weekend? Let's exaggerate it and say a million people attend d on a weekend and they're very impressed by the setting and the yachts and the glitz and glamour. And 100m people watch the boring race and conclude its a stupid race to have in 2021. That's a ratio of about 1 person having a great time to 100 people seeing a boring race. Is that good value?

Lads, anyone who argues for Monaco can never complain about Paul Ricard being boring.

Inquitus

Monaco will stay forever, it is a unique event on the calendar, yes the racing on the TV does not ever come close to being the best of the season, but the full circus in Monaco for a weekend is amazing if you are there in person, and well worth doing once in your lifetime, imho.

Harika

I hope we then get the F1 TV App like everyone else. Sky contract goodbye

AMKC

bennyx_o wrote: »

There always was ads during practice on Sky. They've added ads to qualifying this season

Delighted. Obviously they had to do this to pay for it because they do not have enough fans signing up to the F1 channel but that's Skys fault because they expect us to pay for all the sports channels instead of just the F1 channel. Fu-ck that. Hopefully it will mean less people watching it on Sky and when the next negotiations come around maybe it might go back to free to air just maybe.

Probes

bennyx_o wrote: »

There always was ads during practice on Sky. They've added ads to qualifying this season

That’s mad, must be that I’m particularly pissed off these days that I’ve only just noticed it! Now I don’t know whether to still be angry about it or just let it slide.

bennyx_o

Probes wrote: »

Adverts during practise sessions on Sky now. This is just turning into an advert fest. Are people signed up to the official F1 sub with a VPN? Is it working and is it good? I think I’m going to knock sky on the head, for the price it sticks in my craw that I have to watch the adverts and miss the sport.

There always was ads during practice on Sky. They've added ads to qualifying this season

Probes

Adverts during practise sessions on Sky now. This is just turning into an advert fest. Are people signed up to the official F1 sub with a VPN? Is it working and is it good? I think I’m going to knock sky on the head, for the price it sticks in my craw that I have to watch the adverts and miss the sport.

Hijpo

chicorytip wrote: »

No other circuit on the calendar - apart from the street sections in Baku - allows such small margins for error. That's what's interesting about the race from a spectators point of view and watching an F1 car entering the tunnel at full speed is always thrilling in itself.

Watching the onboard as they come out of the tunnel always has me wincing because i always think they see what I see which js absolutely nothing. The cameras exposure is set for the darkness off the tunnel but looking into the light outside.
Gets me everytime.

chicorytip

No other circuit on the calendar - apart from the street sections in Baku - allows such small margins for error. That's what's interesting about the race from a spectators point of view and watching an F1 car entering the tunnel at full speed is always thrilling in itself.

Adamocovic

I think the spectacle of Monaco is the draw like most say.

We all seem in agreement that the scenario, the image, the marketing are some of the nicest, however the racing is probably the dullest in the calendar.

Maybe some day it will change but I can't see them widening the track in a city!

I've actually been lucky enough to go to Monaco during a race week. Only attended the practice sessions mind you. Nice spot at portier too.
Obviously a lovely place but like everyone has said the on-track entertainment is not quite there. Its the circuit we all hope for something crazy, incidents, rain, etc more so than any other as we need it for excitement.

The next race I went to after was Monza, granted for full race weekend, but both on track and off it was miles ahead in terms of entertainment. Didn't have the same glitz and glam but felt more pure. Even had to dodge David Coulthard who was cycling passed me!

El_Duderino 09

Pen Rua wrote: »

Race fans might not care for the glitz and glamour but sponsors sure as heck do. The Gulf throw back livery for Monaco is no coincidence IMO. As Decal Spotters note on Twitter ELEVEN brands have joined across 10 teams at the Monaco GP. Again, I doubt much of a coincidence.

Monaco is far too valuable for sponsors & teams.

Sure it can be dull, but it’s not always the case.

The reason we clamour to replace Sochi or Paul Ricard is because they have nothing around them - little to no history and next to no sponsor appeal.

I get that Monaco is a good marketing event. But the race is Shyte. And its a terrible advertisement for F1 to attract new fans. Fans would be right to look at Monaco and conclude its a boring sport. If the biggest event on the f1 calendar is its worst event, then the sport is probably boring. Its an example of f1's traditions being a millstone rather than a benefit.

It's just a pity that the business can't happen without an almost guaranteed worst race of the year being part of it.

If they have to do it for the sponsors that's fine. No need for it to be a full championship race though. Its such a joke of a track that it shouldn't have championship points. An exhibition race and a sponsorship event would be much more appropriate given how unsuitable the track is.

I get that they can't do that because it pays the bills, as recent posts put it. And i get that they have to tell us its a brilliant event even though the evidence is that its a joke of a race for the f1 fan. They have to pretend it s great event in spite of the evidence. We don't have to agree with them.

Pen Rua

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The attempts to dress up the "glitz and glamour" as interesting would be boring if they weren't ridiculous. Nobody who tunes in for the quali or race gives a shiny shyte about the glitz and glamour that goes on away from the track or the size of the boats or the cost of a hotel. I'd be equally critical if they wanted to talk about the top 10 outfits from Milan Fashion Week at the Italian GP weekend and expected a race fan to be entertained.

We see shyte tracks like Sochi and Paul Ricard and want them to be replaced by better tracks like Turkey, but when Monaco is crap year after year, it gets all kinds of defences like "but there's a chance it will be [exciting]". Well, there's a chance Paul Ricard will be exciting but i wouldn't argue for it to be kept on the calendar in case it rains one year in 10 and there's a good race. That's an argument for holding races in rainy places, not going to boring tracks and hoping for rain.

Race fans might not care for the glitz and glamour but sponsors sure as heck do. The Gulf throw back livery for Monaco is no coincidence IMO. As Decal Spotters note on Twitter ELEVEN brands have joined across 10 teams at the Monaco GP. Again, I doubt much of a coincidence.

Monaco is far too valuable for sponsors & teams.

Sure it can be dull, but it’s not always the case.

The reason we clamour to replace Sochi or Paul Ricard is because they have nothing around them - little to no history and next to no sponsor appeal.

El_Duderino 09

This is it wrote: »

Not one of my preferred tracks but good to see Ferrari do well in P2. Holding out hope either can magically grab pole, Ferrari not mess up the strategy, and maybe see a Ferrari driver on the podium...

There was some interesting analysis here.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.5-things-we-learned-from-thursday-practice-for-the-monaco-grand-prix.53iqJg9RgwDWaWOe9Bedt0.html

It shows RB having the best race pace but race pace is meaningless at Monaco.

It also shows Ferrari having strong one-lap pace which could be good if they can pull off a pole or even a 1-2.

All this is just practice analysis but the Race needs all the hype it can get.

El_Duderino 09

MadYaker wrote: »

Monaco has much better reasons than the other crap tracks for staying on the calendar. How much do you reckon Gulf are paying Mclaren for that livery? Do you reckon that would have happened without the Monaco GP buzz this weekend? I'm not sure it would and it's just one example of how this race is good for the sport, it generates a lot of cash in a sport that isn't generating half as much cash as it used to. Removing it will only damage the sport that you appear to be a fan of? (hard to tell)

Also this is off topic but it's interesting, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfp4pMAhsUs&ab_channel=Mercedes-AMGPetronasFormulaOneTeam

It's a money spinner alright. And in the worst couple of races of the season almost every single season. It's a absolute joke of a racetrack for modern F1. And the absolute shame is that over 100m people will watch it on TV and it's one of the most watched races of the year, so it includes more causal fans than normal, and most will walk away totally bored and uninterested in actually getting into F1. It must be the worst advertisement for F1 to a casual fan as it's almost guaranteed to be a terrible race.

Think of the opposition to something like the quali race and see how totally out dated and unsuitable the Monaco race track is, but fans just accept that it's ok ad some will even try to convince themselves that it's interesting because of the glitz and glamour. It's just accepted by fans because it's always been there and it should be scrapped and replaced by a good race track.

It's a pure marketing exercise. We hear so many journalists and pundits tell us how brilliant the event is that people who sit at home and watch a terrible race every year, have been fooled into telling each other that it's a brilliant event. Imagine that

MadYaker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The attempts to dress up the "glitz and glamour" as interesting would be boring if they weren't ridiculous. Nobody who tunes in for the quali or race gives a shiny shyte about the glitz and glamour that goes on away from the track or the size of the boats or the cost of a hotel. I'd be equally critical if they wanted to talk about the top 10 outfits from Milan Fashion Week at the Italian GP weekend and expected a race fan to be entertained.

We see shyte tracks like Sochi and Paul Ricard and want them to be replaced by better tracks like Turkey, but when Monaco is crap year after year, it gets all kinds of defences like "but there's a chance it will be [exciting]". Well, there's a chance Paul Ricard will be exciting but i wouldn't argue for it to be kept on the calendar in case it rains one year in 10 and there's a good race. That's an argument for holding races in rainy places, not going to boring tracks and hoping for rain.

Monaco has much better reasons than the other crap tracks for staying on the calendar. How much do you reckon Gulf are paying Mclaren for that livery? Do you reckon that would have happened without the Monaco GP buzz this weekend? I'm not sure it would and it's just one example of how this race is good for the sport, it generates a lot of cash in a sport that isn't generating half as much cash as it used to. Removing it will only damage the sport that you appear to be a fan of? (hard to tell)

Also this is off topic but it's interesting, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfp4pMAhsUs&ab_channel=Mercedes-AMGPetronasFormulaOneTeam

TCP/IP

Sometimes some really interesting insights from Kym

El_Duderino 09

Pen Rua wrote: »

I don't know what's more boring - the GP itself or the annually moaning about Monaco.

The GP isn't going anywhere. It is one of the most iconic GPs (ask people to name any other GP, and you might get the British GP and one or two others). In non-COVID times, it has the glitz and glamour that pays the bills.

We got a lot crappier tracks (SOCHI) that don't have a fraction of the history and glamour of Monaco.

Sure Sunday probably won't be exciting, but there's a chance it will be. Not every GP is going to be a barn stormer. Saturday is the big Monaco GP day anyhow.

Sure only a few weeks ago we were in Bahrain with people bitching about track limits. Now we're at a track with walls as track limits and it's all borning. Can't win.

The attempts to dress up the "glitz and glamour" as interesting would be boring if they weren't ridiculous. Nobody who tunes in for the quali or race gives a shiny shyte about the glitz and glamour that goes on away from the track or the size of the boats or the cost of a hotel. I'd be equally critical if they wanted to talk about the top 10 outfits from Milan Fashion Week at the Italian GP weekend and expected a race fan to be entertained.

We see shyte tracks like Sochi and Paul Ricard and want them to be replaced by better tracks like Turkey, but when Monaco is crap year after year, it gets all kinds of defences like "but there's a chance it will be [exciting]". Well, there's a chance Paul Ricard will be exciting but i wouldn't argue for it to be kept on the calendar in case it rains one year in 10 and there's a good race. That's an argument for holding races in rainy places, not going to boring tracks and hoping for rain.

Pen Rua

I don't know what's more boring - the GP itself or the annually moaning about Monaco.

The GP isn't going anywhere. It is one of the most iconic GPs (ask people to name any other GP, and you might get the British GP and one or two others). In non-COVID times, it has the glitz and glamour that pays the bills.

We got a lot crappier tracks (SOCHI) that don't have a fraction of the history and glamour of Monaco.

Sure Sunday probably won't be exciting, but there's a chance it will be. Not every GP is going to be a barn stormer. Saturday is the big Monaco GP day anyhow.

Sure only a few weeks ago we were in Bahrain with people bitching about track limits. Now we're at a track with walls as track limits and it's all borning. Can't win.

TCP/IP

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

#MonaGo
#MonacoGottaGo

Totally agree it’s such a terrible GP weekend so many better tracks out there. My wife asked me last night would I like a present of paddock club at the Monaco GP next year and I told her no so going to choose another GP for next year to attend.

El_Duderino 09

TCP/IP wrote: »

Is it just me or is anybody else not looking forward to the GP hell even LH said the track is a snore-fest and I have to agree with him it's such a boring track and race.
Beautiful setting but a terrible race especially with the oversized cars we have these days.

#MonaGo
#MonacoGottaGo

TCP/IP

Is it just me or is anybody else not looking forward to the GP hell even LH said the track is a snore-fest and I have to agree with him it's such a boring track and race.
Beautiful setting but a terrible race especially with the oversized cars we have these days.

El_Duderino 09

MadYaker wrote: »

The importance of it as a commercial event is underpinned by the race that’s been happening there a very long time, I think if you took that away the sponsors wouldn’t be interested.

The people watching on tv are the only people who don’t enjoy Monaco and even then I wouldn’t be surprised if it has more eyes on it than most other races.

So the vast majority of the people who see it are the only people who will not enjoy it. You see how bonkers that is for an entertainment show that calls itself a "circus", right?

F1 used to be a sport for the blue bloods, with privateer teams and gentleman drivers. It probably made great sense to go to Monaco for a race back then. Monaco doesn't reflect the reality of the modern F1 or the future of F1. It's a relic of the past and F1 should be about looking to the future.

If I could drop Monaco I'd do it in a heartbeat and absolutely nobody wold miss it after a season. I'ts an obligation on the F1 calendar.

donspeekinglesh

ELM327 wrote: »

If they got rid of the chicane and it was just one long straight down to the swimming pool complex, is it a hard enough braking zone for overtaking?

the corner after the chicane is Tabac. It's probably not tight enough now, but could possibly be tightened. There would be issues with the approach speed and lack of run-off though.

MadYaker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The answer is probably "maybe" as opposed to now where the answer is "definitely not".

The track just isn't suitable and should be dropped. It's important as a commercial event so the teams should have a jolly-up in Monaco and schmoose sponsors, bring them to boat parties or casino parties and make the drivers pretend to be their friend, or whatever they want to do to get money out of them. But there doesn't need to be a joke race on such an unsuitable track, just o schmoose sponsors

The importance of it as a commercial event is underpinned by the race that’s been happening there a very long time, I think if you took that away the sponsors wouldn’t be interested.

The people watching on tv are the only people who don’t enjoy Monaco and even then I wouldn’t be surprised if it has more eyes on it than most other races.

[Deleted User]

flazio wrote: »

The f1 cars are stretched limos compared to Formula E so they'd never make it around the tighter chicane. I mentioned in their thread that FE are more reliant on harder braking zones then ICE formulas because of the energy regeneration from braking which is needed to complete the 45 minutes time limit hence why you get the tighter chicanes on any track.

Was watching a video recently asking would an F1 car be faster than an IndyCar on an oval. Until recently the answer has always been a solid yes, assuming they developed a lower-downforce set-up. It made the point however that without big braking zones for regen the F1 cars now would be almost entirely reliant just on the V6 engine. Obviously then ya can ask well what if they lifted the fuel-flow limits. :pac: It's kinda interesting though just how limited the F1 cars are in some ways now.

RunningFlyer

Oafley Jones wrote: »

What's does the night life look like then. Is it off putting with all high rollers, or does your standard punter hang around? Isn't this a city with a dress code? I'm sure'd they'd smell the pov off me.

It's a carnival atmosphere, great vibe. I wouldn't say it's off-putting at all and to be honest most of the high rollers would typically be off to extravagant yacht parties or the Casino rather than the local Monaco bars.

There's probably a dress code for some of the fancy spots or later at night but most people are just out from the race so still in team jerseys etc. I've no idea what the place is like after midnight if you're looking for late-night shenanigans :pac:

Like anywhere, you can spend a fortune or be sensible. There are groups of girls/guys who are out seeking a free day out so be weary, although they realise quick enough who has money and who doesn't :pac::pac:

Oafley Jones

RunningFlyer wrote: »

Book it all yourself. Stay in Nice. Get the train down or bus etc and home afterwards (beware taxi/uber prices shoot up!). Most trackside bars will offer reasonable enough packages for the Saturday/Sunday - prepare to spend about €100-200 Saturday or €250-400 per ticket on Sunday for the privilege. Usually includes lunch & bottle of wine each. Don't forget your spending money for the inevitable bar-crawl after the race!

If you've been looking at the experiences on yachts etc then those prices above won't seem too bad :pac:

What's does the night life look like then. Is it off putting with all high rollers, or does your standard punter hang around? Isn't this a city with a dress code? I'm sure'd they'd smell the pov off me.