Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

pixelburp · 03-05-2021 2:27pm

It's a small aside, and merely an irritation, but the American writing trope of angling everything as about "family" is past tedium. And then when stories ARE about actual, biological families, it's all conflict and divorces

I still can't rationalise how the director of "Nomadland" was tasked with directing a MCU film. It's ... bizarre.

The White Wolf · 03-05-2021 3:13pm

Have to say that made me smile. It's Marvel schmaltz but they always manage to deliver it in a genuine manner.

Brief_Lives · 03-05-2021 3:35pm

Penn wrote: »

New MCU video with release dates for Phase 4 movies

https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1389203088498585600?s=20

Includes:
First clips from The Eternals
Black Panther 2 will be called Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Captain Marvel 2 will be called The Marvels (the S at the end of the logo is Ms.Marvel's symbol so looks like she'll be a big part of it too)
And Fantastic Four symbol at the end too but they already announced that previously.

So, 4 movies this year, from July to December, and 4 movies next year.
2 so far, announced, for 2023.

Slydice · 03-05-2021 4:25pm

Penn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1389203088498585600?s=20

Stan Lee hitting me right in the Feels

Youtube version:

CastorTroy · 03-05-2021 5:22pm

Anytime I hear the Marvel logo music (played through the new stuff in this video) it just reminds me of Stargate SG1

Penn · 03-05-2021 5:30pm

Slydice wrote: »

Stan Lee hitting me right in the Feels

It's just really weird to end the video with Shang-Chi punching some random dude on a bus. You'd think they'd end it on some big hero shot of Black Widow or maybe even first look at Thor from his next film. Hell even throw in a clip of Sam as Captain America from the TV show since they've announced Cap 4.

Just seems odd to end a video trying to get hype back up for the MCU movies with such a nothing shot.

Agent Coulson · 03-05-2021 6:10pm

Definitely going with the we are all one family feeling after 14 months of a global pandemic.

Midnight_EG · 03-05-2021 6:11pm

Penn wrote: »

It's just really weird to end the video with Shang-Chi punching some random dude on a bus. You'd think they'd end it on some big hero shot of Black Widow or maybe even first look at Thor from his next film. Hell even throw in a clip of Sam as Captain America from the TV show since they've announced Cap 4.

Just seems odd to end a video trying to get hype back up for the MCU movies with such a nothing shot.

Simple really, Sam/Thor/BW aren't going to be this years stars of Phase 4 in the movie part of the MCU. We have Shang Chi, Eternals and Spidey this year and I'm aware that Widow has her movie in July but that's set during and before the Infinity Saga.

Penn · 03-05-2021 7:56pm

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Simple really, Sam/Thor/BW aren't going to be this years stars of Phase 4 in the movie part of the MCU. We have Shang Chi, Eternals and Spidey this year and I'm aware that Widow has her movie in July but that's set during and before the Infinity Saga.

Yeah I just think even if they were going to use Shang Chi, they could have used a better shot to end the video on. Even the double kick on the bus shown earlier would have looked better. Minor quibble though, obviously.

silverharp · 03-05-2021 10:13pm

are they suffering from a bit of hubris with this "phase 4 " nonsense? its the kind of marketing babble I'd expect from an IT or construction company.

If I had spidey senses they would be it telling me that the best of the MCU is behind and going forward all their stuff will be a disappointment in one way or another

03-05-2021 10:39pm

silverharp wrote: »

are they suffering from a bit of hubris with this "phase 4 " nonsense? its the kind of marketing babble I'd expect from an IT or construction company.

If I had spidey senses they would be it telling me that the best of the MCU is behind and going forward all their stuff will be a disappointment in one way or another

In terms of movies I think it's more that there's been a lot of covid related delays so we're getting marketing material more than we would normally.

Zero-Cool · 04-05-2021 1:03am

Goose bumps watching that! Just finished watching Kim's Convenience, hadn't paid much attention to Shang Chi but Jung has peaked my interest.

We miss you Stan

Penn · 04-05-2021 8:39am

silverharp wrote: »

are they suffering from a bit of hubris with this "phase 4 " nonsense? its the kind of marketing babble I'd expect from an IT or construction company.

If I had spidey senses they would be it telling me that the best of the MCU is behind and going forward all their stuff will be a disappointment in one way or another

I disagree. I think they know Phase 4 will have to temper expectations a bit due to losing RDJ & Evans and the Infinity Saga being over, but this trailer is more about the return to cinemas post-Covid, and how great the cinema experience is (hence the audience shots from Endgame). The video is more about updated release dates for their upcoming movies, building hype by revealing the names of some movies (BP2 & Cap.Marvel 2), and ending on the Fantastic 4 symbol, which is something people can really look forward to to see the F4 done in the MCU way and hopefully done proper justice (the first two F4 movies with Evans as Human Torch were okay, but relatively weak compared to the types of movies we get now).

I think this trailer was just "MCU is coming back to cinemas".

Niska · 04-05-2021 10:53am

Was getting a bit weary of Marvel movies but that trailer makes me miss them in the cinema.

Plus, looks like the Ishtar Gate at 2:27

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar_Gate

Cotts72 · 04-05-2021 11:27am

I wonder could the scene at the start showing t'challa and killmonger be a slight nod to what's going to play out in BP2. I still can't see them going with Shuri yet

Penn · 04-05-2021 12:00pm

Cotts72 wrote: »

I wonder could the scene at the start showing t'challa and killmonger be a slight nod to what's going to play out in BP2. I still can't see them going with Shuri yet

Yeah I was thinking about Shuri becoming BP and I thought about how, as per the setup in BP1, if anyone from the other tribes put forward a challenger to fight her on the cliff, no way would she beat them. I could buy her as BP if she took the herb, got powers etc, but for that unpowered fight with none of her tech she wouldn't stand a chance. They'd have to write it that either no one challenges her out of respect for T'Challa, or that she just takes the herb and becomes Black Panther, possibly in the heat of battle to take down some enemy.

Killmonger surviving kinda ruins his story which ended so perfectly, and I can't see how they'd turn him around enough, unless it's T'Challa's death (or maybe sacrifice) and the changes Wakanda was making to help others that started at the end of BP1.

M'Baku could be a decent shout either. Maybe Shuri becomes Queen but M'Baku takes on the mantle of Black Panther. I'd guess from the title of Wakanda Forever that it'll be more about a Wakandan team coming together rather than just Black Panther.

Cotts72 · 04-05-2021 1:30pm

Penn wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking about Shuri becoming BP and I thought about how, as per the setup in BP1, if anyone from the other tribes put forward a challenger to fight her on the cliff, no way would she beat them. I could buy her as BP if she took the herb, got powers etc, but for that unpowered fight with none of her tech she wouldn't stand a chance. They'd have to write it that either no one challenges her out of respect for T'Challa, or that she just takes the herb and becomes Black Panther, possibly in the heat of battle to take down some enemy.

Killmonger surviving kinda ruins his story which ended so perfectly, and I can't see how they'd turn him around enough, unless it's T'Challa's death (or maybe sacrifice) and the changes Wakanda was making to help others that started at the end of BP1.

M'Baku could be a decent shout either. Maybe Shuri becomes Queen but M'Baku takes on the mantle of Black Panther. I'd guess from the title of Wakanda Forever that it'll be more about a Wakandan team coming together rather than just Black Panther.

I can't see the mbaku actor carrying the mantle either, don't think he'd have the charisma that bossman had. I think killmonger coming back would have something to do with the ancesterol plane giving him redemption. Again we can all theorise and it will prob be something completely different that happens!

Seemingly killmonger was going to have some part to play in BP2 and there was a script being written for a Disney plus show that he would feature in also. Allegedly in recent months the script for that has been rewritten and Jordan has been coy when asked about his role

kerplun k · 04-05-2021 1:48pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It's a small aside, and merely an irritation, but the American writing trope of angling everything as about "family" is past tedium. And then when stories ARE about actual, biological families, it's all conflict and divorces

I still can't rationalise how the director of "Nomadland" was tasked with directing a MCU film. It's ... bizarre.

You can’t spell family without Marvel.

Need a Username · 04-05-2021 7:53pm

Cotts72 wrote: »

I can't see the mbaku actor carrying the mantle either, don't think he'd have the charisma that bossman had. I think killmonger coming back would have something to do with the ancesterol plane giving him redemption. Again we can all theorise and it will prob be something completely different that happens!

Seemingly killmonger was going to have some part to play in BP2 and there was a script being written for a Disney plus show that he would feature in also. Allegedly in recent months the script for that has been rewritten and Jordan has been coy when asked about his role

Didn’t Killmonger die?

pixelburp · 04-05-2021 8:36pm

Need a Username wrote: »

Didn’t Killmonger die?

As a dodo, but if the rumours are to be believed, phase 4 will feature the multiverse; so you can bet your bottom dollar there'll be at least one surprise return of a character, with scaled odds for their morality being swapped. Michael B Jordan is a decent lead who could come back as a good version via an alternative dimension.

Need a Username · 05-05-2021 8:49am

pixelburp wrote: »

As a dodo, but if the rumours are to be believed, phase 4 will feature the multiverse; so you can bet your bottom dollar there'll be at least one surprise return of a character, with scaled odds for their morality being swapped. Michael B Jordan is a decent lead who could come back as a good version via an alternative dimension.

I had heard that speculation but I thought the Black Panther had to be the King or the heir to the throne (and that T’Challa had taken the suit due to his father’s age) so even if an alternate Killmonger (I assume he would have a different name) appears the Shuri is T’Challa’s heir.

You guys know more so I assume I’m wrong.

Why, though, not just keep it straightforward and have Shuri inherit the throne and the suit? If Black Panther doesn’t have to be the heir though then why do they need to bring back Killmonger? Why not Lupita Nygo’s character take the role?

And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist I don’t have a “diversity agenda” - I honestly don’t give a toss about it - I just don’t see the need to complicate it all with the dead coming back in any form. Plus it have people expecting Stark and Cap to come back. And I don’t want RDJ or Evans to reappear in any trip to other Earth’s - I would prefer the loss of them to be absolute.

Penn · 05-05-2021 9:16am

Need a Username wrote: »

I had heard that speculation but I thought the Black Panther had to be the King or the heir to the throne (and that T’Challa had taken the suit due to his father’s age) so even if an alternate Killmonger (I assume he would have a different name) appears the Shuri is T’Challa’s heir.

You guys know more so I assume I’m wrong.

Why, though, not just keep it straightforward and have Shuri inherit the throne and the suit? If Black Panther doesn’t have to be the heir though then why do they need to bring back Killmonger? Why not Lupita Nygo’s character take the role?

And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist I don’t have a “diversity agenda” - I honestly don’t give a toss about it - I just don’t see the need to complicate it all with the dead coming back in any form. Plus it have people expecting Stark and Cap to come back. And I don’t want RDJ or Evans to reappear in any trip to other Earth’s - I would prefer the loss of them to be absolute.

For the most part I agree, it's just hard to imagine Shuri as Black Panther given that she's so slight, and not really a fighter but rather has been positioned as a tech genius, and in many respects the comic relief of the first film. Nakia or Okoye, I could absolutely buy as Black Panther. Shuri is just a harder sell though, even if she took the herb to get Black Panther powers. It doesn't automatically make someone a good fighter, just stronger etc.

They could definitely make a story out of it and make her Black Panther, maybe combining tech with BP abilities, make her a bit more serious given the weight of having to take on the BP mantle and crown. But I think even though she becomes BP in the comics, they haven't set her up in the movies well enough to be in that role.

FunLover18 · 05-05-2021 10:15am

Presumably they'll find a way around the fact that KM burnt the garden with all the flowers.

Midnight_EG · 05-05-2021 10:21am

They could use the Ancestral Plane to bring him back Killmonger, just like T'Challa

pixelburp · 05-05-2021 10:29am

Need a Username wrote: »

I had heard that speculation but I thought the Black Panther had to be the King or the heir to the throne (and that T’Challa had taken the suit due to his father’s age) so even if an alternate Killmonger (I assume he would have a different name) appears the Shuri is T’Challa’s heir.

You guys know more so I assume I’m wrong.

Why, though, not just keep it straightforward and have Shuri inherit the throne and the suit? If Black Panther doesn’t have to be the heir though then why do they need to bring back Killmonger? Why not Lupita Nygo’s character take the role?

And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist I don’t have a “diversity agenda” - I honestly don’t give a toss about it - I just don’t see the need to complicate it all with the dead coming back in any form. Plus it have people expecting Stark and Cap to come back. And I don’t want RDJ or Evans to reappear in any trip to other Earth’s - I would prefer the loss of them to be absolute.

Well that then also depends if Wakanda in the MCU is a monarchy where a woman can even inherit the throne. To that end, there's a very natural, topical plotline whereby Shuri has the throne thrust upon her - then juggling superheroics with the courtroom drama as factions resist Wakanda's first female ruler. The first film's strengths did include the internal political strife, so presumably a sequel might look to repeat those threads. (side-bar; as a dyed in the wool anti-Royalist, I smirk at how freedom-loving Americans adore such an absolute(?) monarch

) Shuri has been BP in the comics IIRC so it wouldn't be completely out of left-field, and the "reluctant hero" arc would fit her.

The other question is also if the actor's public vaccine scepticism might damage her leading-role status.

Sad Professor · 05-05-2021 11:34am

I think simplest solution is for them to kick the can down the road. Make the sequel an ensemble while introducing/setting up possible BP successors for later films.

Penn · 05-05-2021 11:41am

Sad Professor wrote: »

I think simplest solution is for them to kick the can down the road. Make the sequel an ensemble while introducing/setting up possible BP successors for later films.

I think that's why they've gone with the title of Wakanda Forever. It'll be more about them having to form their own team for this film.

Edit: Actually, maybe since T'Challa and Shuri were both snapped, maybe they've already changed the monarchy system anyway.

pixelburp · 05-05-2021 2:56pm

Xgemone wrote: »

It seems to me that the marvel universe is slowly dying.

Based on ... ? The only MCU film released post EndGame made 1.1 billion, while the TV spin-offs have kept the brand alive & well (even if not universally critically acclaimed).

Given Phase 4 hasn't even started yet, that seems a little premature to claim

johnny_ultimate · 05-05-2021 3:10pm

I do think there’s a bit of a test ahead for the MCU: some of the characters being introduced are unknown properties, and there’s less room to rely on the old reliables like Iron Man and Captain America (not that there’s any shortage of sequels on the release list). They’ve overcome that before (Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel) but some of the upcoming films really are diving deep into the more obscure properties.

From another perspective though the pandemic was a chance for people to get a breather from the MCU. The next few films will have an event status simply because there hasn’t been one for over a year now. There’s a risk of overkill IMO because there’s one of the bloody things in cinemas every two months or so for the next 18 months, but I certainly think the less familiar names have a better chance now than they would’ve if they’d arrived nearly immediately post Endgame.

There’s also some interesting directorial choices this time around (Shortland, Zhao, DaCosta) but I remain skeptical whether their voices will be heard above the MCU machine given past form. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t looking forward to seeing Sam Raimi return to the fold too: there’s a certain old school comic book flair to Spider-Man 1+2 which I think most newer superhero films lack. Let’s just not mention Spider-Man 3. Ahem.

Need a Username · 05-05-2021 7:56pm

Penn wrote: »

For the most part I agree, it's just hard to imagine Shuri as Black Panther given that she's so slight, and not really a fighter but rather has been positioned as a tech genius, and in many respects the comic relief of the first film. Nakia or Okoye, I could absolutely buy as Black Panther. Shuri is just a harder sell though, even if she took the herb to get Black Panther powers. It doesn't automatically make someone a good fighter, just stronger etc.

They could definitely make a story out of it and make her Black Panther, maybe combining tech with BP abilities, make her a bit more serious given the weight of having to take on the BP mantle and crown. But I think even though she becomes BP in the comics, they haven't set her up in the movies well enough to be in that role.

When thinking Shuri was the most obvious choice to to take the title I never considered her fighting skill.

I remember that that she was involved in the battle but can’t remember if she got by on tech alone or with some combat.

The sequel could show her being trained for combat, but she doesn’t need to be as good as T’Challa. Maybe she makes up for it with gadgets and agility.

Need a Username · 05-05-2021 7:58pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Presumably they'll find a way around the fact that KM burnt the garden with all the flowers.

I keep forgetting about the flowers.

Since they need them for a new Black Panther then maybe they have to use the multiverse.

Need a Username · 05-05-2021 7:59pm

Midnight_EG wrote: »

They could use the Ancestral Plane to bring him back Killmonger, just like T'Challa

Then why bring back T’Challa?

Need a Username · 05-05-2021 8:02pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Well that then also depends if Wakanda in the MCU is a monarchy where a woman can even inherit the throne. To that end, there's a very natural, topical plotline whereby Shuri has the throne thrust upon her - then juggling superheroics with the courtroom drama as factions resist Wakanda's first female ruler. The first film's strengths did include the internal political strife, so presumably a sequel might look to repeat those threads. (side-bar; as a dyed in the wool anti-Royalist, I smirk at how freedom-loving Americans adore such an absolute(?) monarch ) Shuri has been BP in the comics IIRC so it wouldn't be completely out of left-field, and the "reluctant hero" arc would fit her.

The other question is also if the actor's public vaccine scepticism might damage her leading-role status.

That would be an interesting story.

Maybe Shuri has her hands full dealing with detractors and politician shenanigans that she has to get Luputa to take the role of Panther?

Also who are you anti-Royal about? We don’t have royals here?

05-05-2021 8:03pm

In fairness a lot of the last few phases where unknown also ore mcu.

Guardians where unheard of by most
Iron man was a nothing character
Captain america was merchandising character as much as anything else
Thor was like herculese in the dcu

A big part of the concern will be trying to regather interest with another big bad over multiple phases and not making it seem copy paste but honestly there's not much to indicate that they won't be able to as of yet

Need a Username · 05-05-2021 8:04pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Based on ... ? The only MCU film released post EndGame made 1.1 billion, while the TV spin-offs have kept the brand alive & well (even if not universally critically acclaimed).

Given Phase 4 hasn't even started yet, that seems a little premature to claim

It isn’t a discussion about a movie franchise without someone moaning about saturation or wailing that the end is nigh.

pjohnson · 05-05-2021 8:08pm

T'Challa shouldn't return let that MCU character rest with Boseman.

A new Black Panther is needed. Michael B Jordan would be fantastic as a lead man and it could be framed as Killmonger respecting T'Challa and taking on the mantle to honour him.

How Marvel handle the exit of T'Challa is another matter.

pixelburp · 05-05-2021 8:19pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

.
There’s also some interesting directorial choices this time around (Shortland, Zhao, DaCosta) but I remain skeptical whether their voices will be heard above the MCU machine given past form. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t looking forward to seeing Sam Raimi return to the fold too: there’s a certain old school comic book flair to Spider-Man 1+2 which I think most newer superhero films lack. Let’s just not mention Spider-Man 3. Ahem.

Presumably the hiring of these newcomers is cos they're more manageable hands, just glad to get the opportunity than a bunch of auteurs or stubborn old heads. That said, the hiring of an old pro in Sam Raimi was a pleasant surprise; a lot of the buzz around Dr Strange 2 has been that it was the MCUs horror film so hopefully that's not just waffle & Raimi can bring some of his old energy. I don't think we can expect The Evil Dead, but Army of Darkness levels of horror would do very nicely.

Midnight_EG · 05-05-2021 11:10pm

Need a Username wrote: »

Then why bring back T’Challa?

What?

Brief_Lives · 05-05-2021 11:52pm

^^ probably missing a "not",

"Then why not bring back T’Challa?"

Midnight_EG · 06-05-2021 12:09am

Brief_Lives wrote: »

^^ probably missing a "not",

"Then why not bring back T’Challa?"

Even so, he's not dead in the MCU? And he was sent back already from the Ancestral Plane

The Golden Miller · 18-05-2021 1:41am

I'm beginning to wonder what's the point of having Spider-man in the MCU. It was a novelty at the start but that's long gone. They can't even commit to using him long term or as a main Avenger as they don't even know if they can use him down the road.

Why can't Marvel still retain creative control but keep him in his own world. He was only ever with the Avengers in the comics here and there anyway? The other characters need the association with the MCU to be successful, or are household names because of it, but Spider-man doesn't need it.

Even his villains are/were bigger names than the other Marvel hero's, well until this MCU stuff anyway. Infact, Venom grossed more than nearly every solo Avengers movie. This despite poor reviews, no Spider-man in it, and the fact Marvel only use him sparingly in the comics since the 90's due to overexposure. Green Goblin, Doc Ock, amongst others just as popular

Now Venom 2 will be coming out, and Spider-man should be in the middle of any Venom/Carnage fight. Instead he'll be over in the MCU, with little purpose or long term arc. Pretty pointless I think. Spider-man is bigger than the MCU, least not being a bit part side character in it

Agent Coulson · 21-05-2021 4:36pm

Kevin Feige is now saying casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One was a mistake.

Feige said the uproar over casting Swinton as the Tibetan magic arts guru was “a wake up call.”

“We thought we were being so smart and so cutting-edge,” Feige said. “We’re not going to do the cliché of the wizened, old, wise Asian man. But it was a wake up call to say, ‘Well, wait a minute, is there any other way to figure it out? Is there any other way to both not fall into the cliché and cast an Asian actor?’ And the answer to that, of course, is yes.”

The accusations of “whitewashing” the character saw Marvel at the time claim it supported creative freedom, including in casting.
“Marvel has a very strong record of diversity in its casting of films and regularly departs from stereotypes and source material to bring its MCU [Marvel Cinematic Universe] to life,” a statement issued at the time said. “The Ancient One is a title that is not exclusively held by any one character, but rather a moniker passed down through time, and in this particular film the embodiment is Celtic.”

The statement added, “We are very proud to have the enormously talented Tilda Swinton portray this unique and complex character alongside our richly diverse cast.”

Swinton herself said that casting her in the role was an attempt to avoid offensive racial stereotyping. avoiding “this kind of Fu Manchu, ancient man sitting on top of a mountain called The Ancient One. They made this decision to not perpetuate those racial stereotypes.”

https://deadline.com/2021/05/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-the-ancient-one-whitewashing-kevin-feige-marvel-studios-1234761666/

The White Wolf · 21-05-2021 6:04pm

Tilda is great in the role, it's possibly even beneath her really but I can admire Feige for holding his hands up.

In the grand scheme of things it was quite innocuous in the crimes against casting. Marvel TV has a lot more to answer for in regards Finn Jones as Iron Fist. Can't believe they didn't see something in Lewis Tan when he auditioned.

shawki · 21-05-2021 6:25pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Tilda is great in the role, it's possibly even beneath her really but I can admire Feige for holding his hands up.

In the grand scheme of things it was quite innocuous in the crimes against casting. Marvel TV has a lot more to answer for in regards Finn Jones as Iron Fist. Can't believe they didn't see something in Lewis Tan when he auditioned.

You admire Feige apologising for casting Tilda Swinton in an Asian role but you wish Marvel cast Lewis Tan as Danny Rand?

See anything wrong with that?

The White Wolf · 21-05-2021 6:43pm

shawki wrote: »

You admire Feige apologising for casting Tilda Swinton in an Asian role but you wish Marvel cast Lewis Tan as Danny Rand?

See anything wrong with that?

I'm only calling it as I see it.

We know Finn Jones auditioned for Danny Rand.

We know Lewis Tan auditioned for Danny Rand.

Not much of a stretch to say that casting Lewis Tan as Danny Rand would have been the right type of race bending a character.

I admire Feige for admitting he thought he was being clever and woke by casting Swinton, when it ended up not being as clever as he thought.

Need a Username · 21-05-2021 8:56pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

I'm only calling it as I see it.

We know Finn Jones auditioned for Danny Rand.

We know Lewis Tan auditioned for Danny Rand.

Not much of a stretch to say that casting Lewis Tan as Danny Rand would have been the right type of race bending a character.

I admire Feige for admitting he thought he was being clever and woke by casting Swinton, when it ended up not being as clever as he thought.

Why do you think Danny Rand should be Asian or of Asian decent rather than white?

The White Wolf · 21-05-2021 9:08pm

Need a Username wrote: »

Why do you think Danny Rand should be Asian or of Asian decent rather than white?

If you check my original post I never said anything about race, rather it was based in fact. I spoke about criminal casting decisions and we know Danny Rand came down between Finn Jones and Lewis Tan.

Jones was so abysmal in the show it's not even funny, where it came to the point he was the least interesting part of his own show.

Lewis Tan on the other hand did more in 2-3 minutes than Jones managed in the main role in an entire season.

kerplun k · 21-05-2021 9:38pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

If you check my original post I never said anything about race, rather it was based in fact. I spoke about criminal casting decisions and we know Danny Rand came down between Finn Jones and Lewis Tan.

Jones was so abysmal in the show it's not even funny, where it came to the point he was the least interesting part of his own show.

Lewis Tan on the other hand did more in 2-3 minutes than Jones managed in the main role in an entire season.

TBF, Finn Jones, and the show in general, greatly improved in season 2. Its impossible to say that based on his brief appearance that Tan would have improved season 1 if he was cast as Iron Fist.

I mean Tan was awful in Mortal Kombat. A big problem with Iron Fist season 1 was the writing. Jones was actually a lot better as Danny in Luke Cage and The Defenders. I’d actually go as far to say that I’d be happy to keep Jones and Mike Colter as Rand and Cage if Disney ever decides to do a Heros for Hire, I thought they had great chemistry.

Foxtrol · 24-05-2021 3:20pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'm beginning to wonder what's the point of having Spider-man in the MCU. It was a novelty at the start but that's long gone. They can't even commit to using him long term or as a main Avenger as they don't even know if they can use him down the road.

Why can't Marvel still retain creative control but keep him in his own world. He was only ever with the Avengers in the comics here and there anyway? The other characters need the association with the MCU to be successful, or are household names because of it, but Spider-man doesn't need it.

Even his villains are/were bigger names than the other Marvel hero's, well until this MCU stuff anyway. Infact, Venom grossed more than nearly every solo Avengers movie. This despite poor reviews, no Spider-man in it, and the fact Marvel only use him sparingly in the comics since the 90's due to overexposure. Green Goblin, Doc Ock, amongst others just as popular

Now Venom 2 will be coming out, and Spider-man should be in the middle of any Venom/Carnage fight. Instead he'll be over in the MCU, with little purpose or long term arc. Pretty pointless I think. Spider-man is bigger than the MCU, least not being a bit part side character in it

The bold is pretty misleading when you look at context.

Venom release timing meant there was no other super hero movie competition for months either before or after and on top of that no other blockbuster action movies out for weeks either side. They had an open goal.

Even then it didn't do anything special domestically, it didn't beat Ant-Man vs the Wasp, who are hardly A-team Avengers box office draws. Where Venom did fantastically was internationally, especially in China where it is the 7th highest grossing US movie ever.

Having said that, I agree Spider-Man villians, like Venom, are well known and marketable and that is why I am perfectly comfortable with them doing their own movies, just like I am happy keeping Peter Parker in the MCU but out of the core Avenger group. They can tell much more interesting stories when they are the focus rather than splitting time with many other characters.

speedboatchase · 24-05-2021 3:55pm

I feel like that Avengers line in the new Eternals trailer is a way for Disney to say: "Yeah this looks a bit artsy, and there are a lot of new characters to learn about... but don't worry - we have references!"

Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

Comments