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Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

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  • #2


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Presumably they'll find a way around the fact that KM burnt the garden with all the flowers.

    I keep forgetting about the flowers.

    Since they need them for a new Black Panther then maybe they have to use the multiverse.


  • #2


    They could use the Ancestral Plane to bring him back Killmonger, just like T'Challa

    Then why bring back T’Challa?


  • #2


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Well that then also depends if Wakanda in the MCU is a monarchy where a woman can even inherit the throne. To that end, there's a very natural, topical plotline whereby Shuri has the throne thrust upon her - then juggling superheroics with the courtroom drama as factions resist Wakanda's first female ruler. The first film's strengths did include the internal political strife, so presumably a sequel might look to repeat those threads. (side-bar; as a dyed in the wool anti-Royalist, I smirk at how freedom-loving Americans adore such an absolute(?) monarch :D) Shuri has been BP in the comics IIRC so it wouldn't be completely out of left-field, and the "reluctant hero" arc would fit her.

    The other question is also if the actor's public vaccine scepticism might damage her leading-role status.

    That would be an interesting story.

    Maybe Shuri has her hands full dealing with detractors and politician shenanigans that she has to get Luputa to take the role of Panther?

    Also who are you anti-Royal about? We don’t have royals here?


  • #2


    In fairness a lot of the last few phases where unknown also ore mcu.

    Guardians where unheard of by most
    Iron man was a nothing character
    Captain america was merchandising character as much as anything else
    Thor was like herculese in the dcu

    A big part of the concern will be trying to regather interest with another big bad over multiple phases and not making it seem copy paste but honestly there's not much to indicate that they won't be able to as of yet


  • #2


    pixelburp wrote: »
    :confused: Based on ... ? The only MCU film released post EndGame made 1.1 billion, while the TV spin-offs have kept the brand alive & well (even if not universally critically acclaimed).

    Given Phase 4 hasn't even started yet, that seems a little premature to claim :D

    It isn’t a discussion about a movie franchise without someone moaning about saturation or wailing that the end is nigh.


  • #2


    T'Challa shouldn't return let that MCU character rest with Boseman.

    A new Black Panther is needed. Michael B Jordan would be fantastic as a lead man and it could be framed as Killmonger respecting T'Challa and taking on the mantle to honour him.


    How Marvel handle the exit of T'Challa is another matter.


  • #2


    .
    There’s also some interesting directorial choices this time around (Shortland, Zhao, DaCosta) but I remain skeptical whether their voices will be heard above the MCU machine given past form. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t looking forward to seeing Sam Raimi return to the fold too: there’s a certain old school comic book flair to Spider-Man 1+2 which I think most newer superhero films lack. Let’s just not mention Spider-Man 3. Ahem.

    Presumably the hiring of these newcomers is cos they're more manageable hands, just glad to get the opportunity than a bunch of auteurs or stubborn old heads. That said, the hiring of an old pro in Sam Raimi was a pleasant surprise; a lot of the buzz around Dr Strange 2 has been that it was the MCUs horror film so hopefully that's not just waffle & Raimi can bring some of his old energy. I don't think we can expect The Evil Dead, but Army of Darkness levels of horror would do very nicely.


  • #2


    Then why bring back T’Challa?

    What?


  • #2


    ^^ probably missing a "not",

    "Then why not bring back T’Challa?"


  • #2


    ^^ probably missing a "not",

    "Then why not bring back T’Challa?"

    Even so, he's not dead in the MCU? And he was sent back already from the Ancestral Plane


  • #2


    I'm beginning to wonder what's the point of having Spider-man in the MCU. It was a novelty at the start but that's long gone. They can't even commit to using him long term or as a main Avenger as they don't even know if they can use him down the road.

    Why can't Marvel still retain creative control but keep him in his own world. He was only ever with the Avengers in the comics here and there anyway? The other characters need the association with the MCU to be successful, or are household names because of it, but Spider-man doesn't need it.

    Even his villains are/were bigger names than the other Marvel hero's, well until this MCU stuff anyway. Infact, Venom grossed more than nearly every solo Avengers movie. This despite poor reviews, no Spider-man in it, and the fact Marvel only use him sparingly in the comics since the 90's due to overexposure. Green Goblin, Doc Ock, amongst others just as popular

    Now Venom 2 will be coming out, and Spider-man should be in the middle of any Venom/Carnage fight. Instead he'll be over in the MCU, with little purpose or long term arc. Pretty pointless I think. Spider-man is bigger than the MCU, least not being a bit part side character in it


  • #2


    Can't stop watching the phase 4 trailer. So hyped. Marvel never fails to surprise me with how consistent, in touch and patient they are with their CU. That said, on the subject of Spider-Man... I really don't like the way he has been handled in the MCU. Peter should be the star of his own movie but right now he's a sidekick to Iron Man. Sony seems to have lost their confidence in him. Also, making Tony Stark a sort of proxy for Uncle Ben is lame. Tom Holland's Peter Parker seems more defined by what he isn't rather than what he is because they desperately need to make his take seem fresh, consciously aware that we've already had two other Spider-Men within the last 15 years. If it aint broke don't fix it - I see no reason why we can't get real MJ (as in Mary Jane) and Gwen Stacey in the mix. It doesn't feel like Spider-Man without them.

    It's also interesting that Kevin Feige complained that the one thing that annoyed him about the old Spider-Man films was that Sony were too quick to age him up and tbh it's easy to see why they made that hoice. The first hour of Far From Home with the Riverdale-esque nonsense was painful. What works in the comics does not always translate well to film.
    I do think there’s a bit of a test ahead for the MCU: some of the characters being introduced are unknown properties, and there’s less room to rely on the old reliables like Iron Man and Captain America (not that there’s any shortage of sequels on the release list). They’ve overcome that before (Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel) but some of the upcoming films really are diving deep into the more obscure properties.

    From another perspective though the pandemic was a chance for people to get a breather from the MCU. The next few films will have an event status simply because there hasn’t been one for over a year now. There’s a risk of overkill IMO because there’s one of the bloody things in cinemas every two months or so for the next 18 months, but I certainly think the less familiar names have a better chance now than they would’ve if they’d arrived nearly immediately post Endgame.

    There’s also some interesting directorial choices this time around (Shortland, Zhao, DaCosta) but I remain skeptical whether their voices will be heard above the MCU machine given past form. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t looking forward to seeing Sam Raimi return to the fold too: there’s a certain old school comic book flair to Spider-Man 1+2 which I think most newer superhero films lack. Let’s just not mention Spider-Man 3. Ahem.

    I'm not entirely convinced that MCU is as formulaic as you're making out. I'm also not convinced that having a distinct, cohesive style is a bad thing. The MCU works because all of the films feels like they are made by the same storyteller not in spite of it. I don't think a comic book coming across as old school objectively makes it better either. That first Spider-Man film in particular has not aged well (it wasn't that great at the time either). Spider-Man 2 has nice cinematography and music but also a pretty average plot which was done way better in the PS4 game anyway.


  • #2


    Kevin Feige is now saying casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One was a mistake.
    Feige said the uproar over casting Swinton as the Tibetan magic arts guru was “a wake up call.”

    “We thought we were being so smart and so cutting-edge,” Feige said. “We’re not going to do the cliché of the wizened, old, wise Asian man. But it was a wake up call to say, ‘Well, wait a minute, is there any other way to figure it out? Is there any other way to both not fall into the cliché and cast an Asian actor?’ And the answer to that, of course, is yes.”

    The accusations of “whitewashing” the character saw Marvel at the time claim it supported creative freedom, including in casting.
    “Marvel has a very strong record of diversity in its casting of films and regularly departs from stereotypes and source material to bring its MCU [Marvel Cinematic Universe] to life,” a statement issued at the time said. “The Ancient One is a title that is not exclusively held by any one character, but rather a moniker passed down through time, and in this particular film the embodiment is Celtic.”

    The statement added, “We are very proud to have the enormously talented Tilda Swinton portray this unique and complex character alongside our richly diverse cast.”

    Swinton herself said that casting her in the role was an attempt to avoid offensive racial stereotyping. avoiding “this kind of Fu Manchu, ancient man sitting on top of a mountain called The Ancient One. They made this decision to not perpetuate those racial stereotypes.”

    https://deadline.com/2021/05/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-the-ancient-one-whitewashing-kevin-feige-marvel-studios-1234761666/


  • #2


    Tilda is great in the role, it's possibly even beneath her really but I can admire Feige for holding his hands up.

    In the grand scheme of things it was quite innocuous in the crimes against casting. Marvel TV has a lot more to answer for in regards Finn Jones as Iron Fist. Can't believe they didn't see something in Lewis Tan when he auditioned.


  • #2


    Tilda is great in the role, it's possibly even beneath her really but I can admire Feige for holding his hands up.

    In the grand scheme of things it was quite innocuous in the crimes against casting. Marvel TV has a lot more to answer for in regards Finn Jones as Iron Fist. Can't believe they didn't see something in Lewis Tan when he auditioned.

    You admire Feige apologising for casting Tilda Swinton in an Asian role but you wish Marvel cast Lewis Tan as Danny Rand?

    See anything wrong with that?


  • #2


    shawki wrote: »
    You admire Feige apologising for casting Tilda Swinton in an Asian role but you wish Marvel cast Lewis Tan as Danny Rand?

    See anything wrong with that?

    I'm only calling it as I see it.

    We know Finn Jones auditioned for Danny Rand.

    We know Lewis Tan auditioned for Danny Rand.

    Not much of a stretch to say that casting Lewis Tan as Danny Rand would have been the right type of race bending a character.

    I admire Feige for admitting he thought he was being clever and woke by casting Swinton, when it ended up not being as clever as he thought.


  • #2


    I'm only calling it as I see it.

    We know Finn Jones auditioned for Danny Rand.

    We know Lewis Tan auditioned for Danny Rand.

    Not much of a stretch to say that casting Lewis Tan as Danny Rand would have been the right type of race bending a character.

    I admire Feige for admitting he thought he was being clever and woke by casting Swinton, when it ended up not being as clever as he thought.

    Why do you think Danny Rand should be Asian or of Asian decent rather than white?


  • #2


    Why do you think Danny Rand should be Asian or of Asian decent rather than white?

    If you check my original post I never said anything about race, rather it was based in fact. I spoke about criminal casting decisions and we know Danny Rand came down between Finn Jones and Lewis Tan.

    Jones was so abysmal in the show it's not even funny, where it came to the point he was the least interesting part of his own show.

    Lewis Tan on the other hand did more in 2-3 minutes than Jones managed in the main role in an entire season.


  • #2


    If you check my original post I never said anything about race, rather it was based in fact. I spoke about criminal casting decisions and we know Danny Rand came down between Finn Jones and Lewis Tan.

    Jones was so abysmal in the show it's not even funny, where it came to the point he was the least interesting part of his own show.

    Lewis Tan on the other hand did more in 2-3 minutes than Jones managed in the main role in an entire season.

    TBF, Finn Jones, and the show in general, greatly improved in season 2. Its impossible to say that based on his brief appearance that Tan would have improved season 1 if he was cast as Iron Fist.

    I mean Tan was awful in Mortal Kombat. A big problem with Iron Fist season 1 was the writing. Jones was actually a lot better as Danny in Luke Cage and The Defenders. I’d actually go as far to say that I’d be happy to keep Jones and Mike Colter as Rand and Cage if Disney ever decides to do a Heros for Hire, I thought they had great chemistry.


  • #2


    It's unfortunate because while I understand where people upset about the casting are coming from Tilda Swinton is a fabulous actress and is great in that role. I suppose all Marvel can do is move forward and learn lessons for future castings.


  • #2


    I'm beginning to wonder what's the point of having Spider-man in the MCU. It was a novelty at the start but that's long gone. They can't even commit to using him long term or as a main Avenger as they don't even know if they can use him down the road.

    Why can't Marvel still retain creative control but keep him in his own world. He was only ever with the Avengers in the comics here and there anyway? The other characters need the association with the MCU to be successful, or are household names because of it, but Spider-man doesn't need it.

    Even his villains are/were bigger names than the other Marvel hero's, well until this MCU stuff anyway. Infact, Venom grossed more than nearly every solo Avengers movie. This despite poor reviews, no Spider-man in it, and the fact Marvel only use him sparingly in the comics since the 90's due to overexposure. Green Goblin, Doc Ock, amongst others just as popular

    Now Venom 2 will be coming out, and Spider-man should be in the middle of any Venom/Carnage fight. Instead he'll be over in the MCU, with little purpose or long term arc. Pretty pointless I think. Spider-man is bigger than the MCU, least not being a bit part side character in it

    The bold is pretty misleading when you look at context.

    Venom release timing meant there was no other super hero movie competition for months either before or after and on top of that no other blockbuster action movies out for weeks either side. They had an open goal.

    Even then it didn't do anything special domestically, it didn't beat Ant-Man vs the Wasp, who are hardly A-team Avengers box office draws. Where Venom did fantastically was internationally, especially in China where it is the 7th highest grossing US movie ever.

    Having said that, I agree Spider-Man villians, like Venom, are well known and marketable and that is why I am perfectly comfortable with them doing their own movies, just like I am happy keeping Peter Parker in the MCU but out of the core Avenger group. They can tell much more interesting stories when they are the focus rather than splitting time with many other characters.


  • #2


    I feel like that Avengers line in the new Eternals trailer is a way for Disney to say: "Yeah this looks a bit artsy, and there are a lot of new characters to learn about... but don't worry - we have references!"


  • #2


    That's the Eternals and Shang-Chi trailers not giving much away at all which I like.


  • #2


    I wonder if there's any chance The Eternals plotline could happen simultaneously to Thanos. I'm curious what would cause them to interfere if not Thanos.


  • #2


    Nic Fury in space must cameo in the Eternals as well I would imagine.


  • #2


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    I wonder if there's any chance The Eternals plotline could happen simultaneously to Thanos. I'm curious what would cause them to interfere if not Thanos.

    Something that their presence brought to earth or an enemy they have a history with?

    Like how the Masters of the Mystic Arts aren't out there fighting terrorists.


  • #2


    So Aaron Taylor-Johnson has now been cast as Kraven the Hunter by Sony, how ridiculous is that?!


  • #2


    So Aaron Taylor-Johnson has now been cast as Kraven the Hunter by Sony, how ridiculous is that?!

    Yeah, can't understand that casting at all.


  • #2


    Sony are obviously wedded to this idea of making Spidey villain movies. Venom did great but presumably if/when Morbius flops the tactic will be rethought. It's so strange either way


  • #2


    Well Loki has started off great i think. There was a lot happening in that one episode. Not a single second wasted.


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