Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

12-05-2021 01:57AM

Lumen wrote: »

I don't understand Leo's argument.

He's saying that some extra lifting of restrictions is needed to boost business in Ireland from UK tourists, but travel between UK and Ireland is already permitted, since it isn't considered international travel.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/covid-19-coronavirus-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do#travelling-within-the-uk-the-republic-of-ireland-and-the-channel-islands

e.g.

They can leave here too, but we can't. The problem is in the other direction.

But they still need a pcr and mandatory home quarantine for at least 5 days assuming they get another pcr test.

Who would bother traveling for tourism on that deal? Especially if you consider most Irish / uk travel would be for a few days and not weeks.

(Ignoring the quarantine is of course an option but he's hardly going to admit it)

12-05-2021 02:13AM

stargazer 68 wrote: »

There is no fine for going to the shops etc if you are supposed to be in 'quarantine'. There never was. Unless I have missed something! Which is possible!!

I think it's 2000 as well but only for travel

Del Griffith · 12-05-2021 02:28AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

But they still need a pcr and mandatory home quarantine for at least 5 days assuming they get another pcr test.

Who would bother traveling for tourism on that deal? Especially if you consider most Irish / uk travel would be for a few days and not weeks.

(Ignoring the quarantine is of course an option but he's hardly going to admit it)

Presumably that's exactly what Leo is talking about lifting in Ireland.

And they don't need to do any of that ****e on return to the UK already.

Lumen · 12-05-2021 03:14AM

stargazer 68 wrote: »

There is no fine for going to the shops etc if you are supposed to be in 'quarantine'. There never was. Unless I have missed something! Which is possible!!

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I think it's 2000 as well but only for travel

If we're talking about penalties for breaking quarantine, if you do not quarantine at home or in your place of residence, you can be fined up to €5,000 or face 6 months in prison, or both.

You can leave "for unavoidable reasons of an emergency nature to protect a person’s health or welfare" but "going to the shops etc" is not going to cut it.

The relevant SI is 135, and the penalties are laid out in the HEALTH ACT 1947 REVISED Updated to 30 April 2021.

Valhallapt · 12-05-2021 06:11AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yet you would tell us that it was done as a result of covid shutdown. You cant have it both ways. Either they take years to move, or they dont. Which is it? and how does this effect the number of planes available?

Of course they wouldnt if they had the choice but its not only Ireland that has seen a reduction in traffic is it? Do you think that the rest of europe hasnt seen a reduction in flights and passengers?

Go to the airport, please. You can physically see them mothballed. Especially on the outter ring. You will see them in London, Madrid, Poland. Anywhere really as they dont as a rule, ground their fleet to this extent. I did link to an article that showed they were bringing in over 200 new Max's for when things get up and running again and of course you could go to the airlines sites themselves and see the flights and cheap prices if you wanted.

The airlines simple have not trashed hundreds of aeroplanes. They still exist and the airlines will want to use them as you have said. So why, when things do reopen, would the airlines not put the flights on with suitable prices to entice travel? I mean, Ryanair are as I type, running another sale and advertising new routes.

We are talking about the two Irish airlines. No other company, just Ryanair and AL.

Really? 76? Seems odd considering Google removes planes from their satellite view which leaves airports appearing empty and has been doing so since at least 2019. The algorithm must have been feeling stroppy in February.

A, 4am is the earliest that I have seen but someone said 3.15am as well

B, They could be. There is a Garda station and immigration in the airport. Its actively patroled.

C, Yes but not for returning. Only for the original journey. Returning home is (obviously enough to sensible people) essential travel

https://twitter.com/eoghancorry/status/1391074163985616906?s=20

Ireland has the most restrictive airspace in Europe, has the highest reduction in airplane movements in the 40 countries managed by eurocontrol

How does this effect the number of planes available, pretty obvious. If a plane is moved from Dublin to Stockholm it is no longer in Dublin, that’s 3-4 return flights lost a day. They have moved multiple planes, tickets have been sold on the new routes, you think they can just cancel those?

If you had 25 airplanes based in Dublin in 2019 that’s 25 * 7(average number of sectors per day) * 7(days of week(you’ll probably disagree with me on this too)) = 1225 sectors a week. Remove 5 planes, now it’s 980, a reduction of 245 flights which results in less choice and higher prices.

Bellmeister · 12-05-2021 07:03AM

I assume the Garda checkpoints on the M1 border with the north have now been stood down, meaning there is no way to catch anyone travelling from Britain via the back door at all now? They need to open the common travel area if they're not going to enforce the rules.

zambrotta11 · 12-05-2021 07:59AM

Bellmeister wrote: »

I assume the Garda checkpoints on the M1 border with the north have now been stood down, meaning there is no way to catch anyone travelling from Britain via the back door at all now? They need to open the common travel area if they're not going to enforce the rules.

Was there ever a garda checkpoint at the border at the M1?
I have been traveling frequently across the border even when the 5 km rule was in force and I never seen a single guard at any point on anyway motorway nevermind at the M1 border.

MizMix · 12-05-2021 08:49AM

Yes pre xmas there were checkpoints at the m1 border north of Dundalk- I work just across the border and got stopped a min once on my drive in and back (sometimes more than once both ways). 2021- I've never been stopped and I'm up and down 3-4 times a week

Dr. Em · 12-05-2021 08:55AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eoghancorry/status/1391074163985616906?s=20

Ireland has the most restrictive airspace in Europe, has the highest reduction in airplane movements in the 40 countries managed by eurocontrol

How does this effect the number of planes available, pretty obvious. If a plane is moved from Dublin to Stockholm it is no longer in Dublin, that’s 3-4 return flights lost a day. They have moved multiple planes, tickets have been sold on the new routes, you think they can just cancel those?

If you had 25 airplanes based in Dublin in 2019 that’s 25 * 7(average number of sectors per day) * 7(days of week(you’ll probably disagree with me on this too)) = 1225 sectors a week. Remove 5 planes, now it’s 980, a reduction of 245 flights which results in less choice and higher prices.

You could expect to see a huge drop in traffic from Dublin even if Ireland had had no restrictions. Dublin airport was starting from a high base as the 11th busiest airport in Europe, and has been building itself on the transfer route to the US. The US has a travel ban in place, ergo, fewer flights. It didn't help when we made the headlines for the highest case numbers in the EU after Christmas and Germany pulled it's flights for about a month. Add Brexit, and I think Dublin would have seen a huge drop regardless of Irish restrictions. The next six months are crucial for gauging lasting damage, not the last year.

Micky 32 · 12-05-2021 09:00AM

RTE and the WHO are certainly pushing the Indian variant story spreading around the world now in 44 nations. I just hope this doesn’t dash our hopes to ever be able to travel again, concerning. RTE reporting bodies now floating down the Ganges.

On the plus side the vaccine works against the Indian strain. The results are showing in the healthcare nurses etc who have had the jab in India.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 12-05-2021 09:18AM

Micky 32 wrote: »

RTE and the WHO are certainly pushing the Indian variant story spreading around the world now in 44 nations. I just hope this doesn’t dash our hopes to ever be able to travel again, concerning. RTE reporting bodies now floating down the Ganges.

On the plus side the vaccine works against the Indian strain. The results are showing in the healthcare nurses etc who have had the jab in India.

Well as the UK has the most cases of the Indian variant outside of India, it would be a complete joke if any other EU countries were added to the MHQ list over it, seeing as we have an open border!!

Terrible to see the impact it is having on less wealty countries.

Donald Trump · 12-05-2021 09:25AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eoghancorry/status/1391074163985616906?s=20

Ireland has the most restrictive airspace in Europe, has the highest reduction in airplane movements in the 40 countries managed by eurocontrol

How does this effect the number of planes available, pretty obvious. If a plane is moved from Dublin to Stockholm it is no longer in Dublin, that’s 3-4 return flights lost a day. They have moved multiple planes, tickets have been sold on the new routes, you think they can just cancel those?

If you had 25 airplanes based in Dublin in 2019 that’s 25 * 7(average number of sectors per day) * 7(days of week(you’ll probably disagree with me on this too)) = 1225 sectors a week. Remove 5 planes, now it’s 980, a reduction of 245 flights which results in less choice and higher prices.

A fair few travellers from other European countries passed through Ireland on the way to the US - not least to use the preclearance.

DylanJM · 12-05-2021 09:47AM

General Toilet wrote: »

The 2K fine is only for travelling to an airport.

No it's not. The 2k fine is (was?) for non essential travel out of the state. There were Gardai at Dublin when I recently got the ferry to Holyhead. I was questioned on my reasons for travel.

dublin_paul · 12-05-2021 09:49AM

DylanJM wrote: »

No it's not. The 2k fine is (was?) for non essential travel out of the state. There were Gardai at Dublin when I recently got the ferry to Holyhead. I was questioned on my reasons for travel.

It's for travelling to an airport or port

Chuck Norris 2021 · 12-05-2021 09:55AM

DylanJM wrote: »

No it's not. The 2k fine is (was?) for non essential travel out of the state. There were Gardai at Dublin when I recently got the ferry to Holyhead. I was questioned on my reasons for travel.

Restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from
place of residence to port or airport
4. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), an applicable person shall not travel to an
airport or port for the purpose of leaving the State without reasonable excuse.

Donald Trump · 12-05-2021 10:00AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from
place of residence to port or airport
4. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), an applicable person shall not travel to an
airport or port for the purpose of leaving the State without reasonable excuse.

Yes. It would have to be worded like that. If the fine was just worded as for "leaving the State" then it would be unenforceable.

DylanJM · 12-05-2021 10:02AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from
place of residence to port or airport
4. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), an applicable person shall not travel to an
airport or port for the purpose of leaving the State without reasonable excuse.

I stand corrected!

I thought people were being given the chance to turn around at the check point in the airport in order to avoid the fine though?

Chuck Norris 2021 · 12-05-2021 10:03AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes. It would have to be worded like that. If the fine was just worded as for "leaving the State" then it would be unenforceable.

Why is that? Would it be a breach of EU free movement?

Lumen · 12-05-2021 10:05AM

Interestingly, I'm not sure there's anything illegal about chartering a boat to cross the Irish Sea, or using your own.

I do own a boat, but it's very very small, so I'd probably die trying.

Donald Trump · 12-05-2021 10:07AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Why is that? Would it be a breach of EU free movement?

No, because if the fine was for leaving the State, then by definition you would not have actually committed the offence until you had left the State. And also, then, by definition, you would be beyond the reach of the State.

If it were written the other way, a Guard could not fine you because he formed the opinion that you intended to, or were about to, commit an offence. You could be sitting on the plane awaiting take-off and you still wouldn't have committed any offence.

So the offence is on travelling to the airport without a reasonable excuse. But it is meant for those actually flying out (or going on a ferry from a port... same idea)

Chuck Norris 2021 · 12-05-2021 10:08AM

Restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from
place of residence to port or airport
4. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), an applicable person shall not travel to an
airport or port for the purpose of leaving the State without reasonable excuse.

What would happen if you spent the night before in a B&B? Technically you wouldn't have travelled from your place of residence? Or if you went to the shop in the airport and just happened to leave while you were there....

Valhallapt · 12-05-2021 10:18AM

Dr. Em wrote: »

The next six months are crucial for gauging lasting damage, not the last year.

Well it’s not the next six months, it’s now.

https://mobile.twitter.com/eurocontrolDG/status/1392375104437374977

Everywhere in Europe except Ireland is opening skies, as a Ryanair shareholder I want them to deploy the planes to countries where they can sell tickets. Once the tickets are sold, the planes will stay there for the foreseeable

Donald Trump · 12-05-2021 10:28AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

Well it’s not the next six months, it’s now.

https://mobile.twitter.com/eurocontrolDG/status/1392375104437374977

Everywhere in Europe except Ireland is opening skies, as a Ryanair shareholder I want them to deploy the planes to countries where they can sell tickets. Once the tickets are sold, the planes will stay there for the foreseeable

I wouldn't like to invest in an airline company that isn't able to figure out how to transport its planes from one country to another :pac:

I see sheep · 12-05-2021 10:46AM

Spain are saying tourists can enter without a PCR test this Summer.

Valhallapt · 12-05-2021 10:47AM

I see sheep wrote: »

Spain are saying tourists can enter without a PCR test this Summer.

Did they announce timelines?

12-05-2021 10:47AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eoghancorry/status/1391074163985616906?s=20

Ireland has the most restrictive airspace in Europe, has the highest reduction in airplane movements in the 40 countries managed by eurocontrol

How does this effect the number of planes available, pretty obvious. If a plane is moved from Dublin to Stockholm it is no longer in Dublin, that’s 3-4 return flights lost a day. They have moved multiple planes, tickets have been sold on the new routes, you think they can just cancel those?

If you had 25 airplanes based in Dublin in 2019 that’s 25 * 7(average number of sectors per day) * 7(days of week(you’ll probably disagree with me on this too)) = 1225 sectors a week. Remove 5 planes, now it’s 980, a reduction of 245 flights which results in less choice and higher prices.

That tweet doesn't back your argument about plane movement at all.

It just shows that ALL air traffic is down and therefore planes are grounded. Yes? 80% down in multiple nations.

So they moved planes from 81% Ireland to 80% uk and it takes years to do this but it's our covid restriction in place 6 months that caused it and those places planes are no in use within 80% down uk despite a travel ban in effect. That's your argument?

I don't disagree with your numbers because you just made them up. You are arguing a point that no one has mentioned while ignoring everything said to you.

Now please also remember that all I said was that the physical planes that existed still exist and are sitting around all over Europe waiting to be used again. Again, Ryanair had announced over 200 NEW planes to add to the skies.

Again, look at the website, physically go to the airport or wait a year and we can examine the actual numbers but so far your Twitter evidence has only shown a reduction in air travel. Something that's not being argued.

I see sheep · 12-05-2021 10:49AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

Did they announce timelines?

Text of article -

Spain plans to waive its PCR testing requirement for British visitors from May 20, if the UK's Covid-19 infection rate allows.

"[British holidaymakers] could come from May 20 onwards without a PCR if the incidence rates are below the range currently under review, which is around 50 [cases per 100,000 people]", Spain's tourism minister Maria Reyes Maroto told reporters after a weekly cabinet meeting on Tuesday.

Ms Reyes Maroto also said during a visit to Alicante on Monday that she thought Britons would be permitted to visit Spain for a holiday from next week.

“Spain is exercising a very active role within the European Union and campaigning for the updating of the restrictions on non-essential trips from outside the EU. The changes that are being discussed at the moment are going to mean tourists will be able to travel to Spain from the UK from May 20,” she said.

Spain is not among the 12 destinations on the UK’s quarantine-free 'green list', but could potentially move to 'green' from 'amber' when the UK Government reviews the categories in early June.

12-05-2021 10:50AM

DylanJM wrote: »

I stand corrected!

I thought people were being given the chance to turn around at the check point in the airport in order to avoid the fine though?

Yes, you are advised to return home and not travel thereby avoiding the fine.

dalyboy · 12-05-2021 10:53AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I wouldn't like to invest in an airline company that isn't able to figure out how to transport its planes from one country to another :pac:

Ryanair moved 70% of their original Dublin - EU routes to Belfast airport back in February.

They could foresee these Irish government shenanigans well in advance.

It turns out that was a shrewd move as I personally know 8 people who have booked their holidays for early to mid June flying out of Belfast airport (to avoid the 2k and have additional assurance of departure)

12-05-2021 10:54AM

I see sheep wrote: »

Text of article -

Spain plans to waive its PCR testing requirement for British visitors from May 20, if the UK's Covid-19 infection rate allows.

"[British holidaymakers] could come from May 20 onwards without a PCR if the incidence rates are below the range currently under review, which is around 50 [cases per 100,000 people]", Spain's tourism minister Maria Reyes Maroto told reporters after a weekly cabinet meeting on Tuesday.

Ms Reyes Maroto also said during a visit to Alicante on Monday that she thought Britons would be permitted to visit Spain for a holiday from next week.

“Spain is exercising a very active role within the European Union and campaigning for the updating of the restrictions on non-essential trips from outside the EU. The changes that are being discussed at the moment are going to mean tourists will be able to travel to Spain from the UK from May 20,” she said.

Spain is not among the 12 destinations on the UK’s quarantine-free 'green list', but could potentially move to 'green' from 'amber' when the UK Government reviews the categories in early June.

That's nothing new. We had those numbers before the last spike and were not on the spanish pcr test list. If Leinster reduces it's numbers we will be removed from it again.

Its hard to follow but if the eu map shows you as green or orange this week, you wont need a pcr test next week (in simple terms)

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/en/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov/spth.htm

For more detail and the current and future list (in PDF form)

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Comments