Tesla/Lithium stocks discussion

unkel · 01-02-2021 5:43pm

fricatus wrote: »

Bitcoin is a speculative asset with no underlying intrinsic worth

Just l like USD or EUR then? :pac:

sk8board · 01-02-2021 11:47pm

fricatus wrote: »

I'm sure corporate governance rules, due diligence, the board, etc. will stop him from doing this (if he's even giving it serious consideration). Bitcoin is a speculative asset with no underlying intrinsic worth, not backed by taxes or a central bank, etc.

Legally there’s actually nothing to stop them doing it, and indeed Bitcoin is a speculative asset, but an asset all the same.
Companies with a lot of cash are losing millions to inflation already and negative interest to keep it in banks.
Companies like Tesla need a lot of cash on hand, and let’s face it Musk is the type of person who could easily try to do it.
He was expressing his support for Bitcoin again just last night at some invite-only online conference.

(It’s inherent value is a different matter, but the notes in your pocket haven’t been backed by physical assets since 1971, and are simply based on everyone agreeing what value they have, relative to all other currencies)

patsy_mccabe · 02-02-2021 7:24pm

fricatus wrote: »

.........Bitcoin is a speculative asset with no underlying intrinsic worth, not backed by taxes or a central bank, etc. It could fall as spectacularly as it has risen, and it would be an extraordinarily foolish move to put any portion of Tesla's cash into BTC. Let him do it with his own money, he has plenty of it.

Tesla's free cash should be invested for growth or else returned to shareholders, end of.

Ya, Bitcoin is worthless. Amazing the amount of people who don't get that .... and even get offended when you point it out.
Will the SEC allow bitcoin on the balance sheet?

sk8board · 03-02-2021 12:22am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, Bitcoin is worthless. Amazing the amount of people who don't get that .... and even get offended when you point it out.
Will the SEC allow bitcoin on the balance sheet?

The SEC legitimised it as an asset in 2015. They view it as a commodity, and the Revenue/tax folks view it as a property (IIRC), hence it attracts CGT on gains, like any other asset.
There’s a 6bn market cap Nasdaq company that put over $200m of their balance sheet cash into Bitcoin back in the summer.
It’s definitely something to watch with Tesla, considering Musks recent musings on the subject.

UsBus · 08-02-2021 2:36pm

Well Musk has done it, Tesla purchased 1.5 billion in Bitcoin according to SEC filing. Bitcoin up nearly 5 grand.
He's something else talking up dogecoin while jumping into bitcoin...I think Bezos has spurred him to another level..!

sk8board · 08-02-2021 6:10pm

UsBus wrote: »

Well Musk has done it, Tesla purchased 1.5 billion in Bitcoin according to SEC filing. Bitcoin up nearly 5 grand.
He's something else talking up dogecoin while jumping into bitcoin...I think Bezos has spurred him to another level..!

The first of many corporates firing a shot across the Fed’s bow I’d say. Apparently there was a virtual conference last week by Microstrategy, who were advertising 1,400 free places to get a run through their thought process on why they invested balance sheet cash in Bitcoin last summer, and a playbook for compliance and legal hurdles, but ended up with over 12,000 registrations from 6,500 corporations attending - and plenty tier 1 fortune 500’s amongst them.

The combination of the fanboys from Tesla and Bitcoin will make Twitter more insufferable than ever!

28-02-2021 12:39am

Gone quite quiet in here... Tesla under $700 again..... Will the diehards & fanbois be enough to get it back close to $1000.
As we are told it's not just a car company when things are going well. What is it when the SP is falling :pac:

Cute Hoor · 28-02-2021 12:45am

Augeo wrote: »

Gone quite quiet in here... Tesla under $700 again..... Will the diehards & fanbois be enough to get it back close to $1000.
As we are told it's not just a car company when things are going well. What is it when the SP is falling :pac:

Cathie will ensure that the price rebounds

28-02-2021 12:50am

Excuse my ignorance, Cathie?
I reckon the price will rebound though, no reason except cult/sect like followers of Elon

Cute Hoor · 28-02-2021 12:57am

Augeo wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, Cathie?
I reckon the price will rebound though, no reason except cult/sect like followers of Elon

Cathie Wood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfhgbZBWgBE

05-03-2021 4:48pm

Approx 40% off Jan high now :eek:
Volatile.

FFVII · 06-03-2021 8:24pm

Tesla Share Price Plunge Knocks $267 Billion Off Market Value

The investment fund is worth looking at and what they put money in and VW have plowed money into a new lithium battery that could be worth a look. Share drop was long overdue, should never have been where it was.

Perhaps he shouldn't have spent the company's cash on Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin may have had something to do with the crash.
Many people bought Teslas because they want to save the world, and Tesla was doing big things to address big problems.
Then Musk turns around and puts $1.5B into Bitcoin, which pointlessly wastes more energy than is used by Argentina.
I own a Telsa. I feel disillusioned. My next EV will not be a Tesla.

I loled at this.

garrettod · 07-03-2021 2:49pm

I agree on the point about Bitcoin - I don't think it's in Tesla's remit to be speculating on cryptocurrencies, and I would imagine that a lot of fud managers weren't very happy with him.

07-03-2021 2:56pm

garrettod wrote: »

I agree on the point about Bitcoin - I don't think it's in Tesla's remit to be speculating on cryptocurrencies, and I would imagine that a lot of fud managers weren't very happy with him.

He supposedly sold his McLaren F1 because it wasn't "fitting" to the image of Tesla as a sustainable company but has no problems purchasing bitcoin.
The transactions for transferring that Bitcoin stake in to Tesla's ownership represents thousands of lifetimes of the amount of CO2 his McLaren would have emitted if he had held on to it and managed to keep it between the hedges.

Marlow · 02-04-2021 5:18pm

Q1 figures are out.

184800 vehicles delivered. Looks like Tesla has ramped up more than anyone expected.

Press release is here: https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q1-2021-vehicle-production-deliveries

/M

jams100 · 26-04-2021 9:32pm

Teslas Earnings out
Revenue $10.83 billion
Net income 438 million
E.p.s = 93 cent

Services seems be an increasing problem (Growth not matching car sales, something to keep am eye on).
Semis also a problem (A problem for everyone).

Overall a good quarter, stock slightly down.

Interesting to see what they say on conference call.

27-04-2021 10:53am

They pumped and dumped bitcoin during the quarter to get their profit figure. 101 million dollars gain out of selling some of their "investment".
Their EPS is terrible and they can't rely on one-off wheezes like this or carbon credit sales in to the future.
Their net margin on cars is atrocious and there is a tsunami of EVs from other Manufacturers on the horizon that will make shore in the next 24 months.

jams100 · 28-04-2021 1:02pm

Very cool feature. I love when I see people try to compare Ford or GM to tesla, these companies are so far behind right now its hard to believe.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BLKMDL3/status/1387102473450446848

unkel · 28-04-2021 2:04pm

Someone was raving the other day that their 2021 VW could play the song you asked it to play. Tesla had that 10 years ago. Free spotify account and free internet connectivity for life. Free Google maps integrated with up to date traffic info. Standard on all cars

p to the e · 29-04-2021 10:52am

How reliant have Tesla been on the carbon credits in past earnings does anyone know?

cc87 · 29-04-2021 10:58am

p to the e wrote: »

How reliant have Tesla been on the carbon credits in past earnings does anyone know?

There's a nice chart on it in this article. https://www.ft.com/content/98344e83-086f-426b-97e7-ca8fc0e5033c

They've been relying on them more and more as costs have increased.
I think they are getting close to that changing though with a number of new factories opening over the coming months and the Model S/X factory refit being completed.

29-04-2021 11:08am

I consider Tesla to be on the backfoot in Europe and China.
There is still some hope in the U.S. that they will get a brandname with goodwill toward it similar to the levels that the JEEP brand has.
If JEEP start introducing semi competent ICE based EVs before Tesla build the goodwill then their goose is cooked.
Their brand is not even strong in the U.S. It is strong in Calfiornia.
Cadillac are going all EV and Ford will do what it always does which is pump cars(with batteries) through the channel.
Q4 Etrn and id4 are VWs response and they will do everything in their power to prevent sales to Model Y
Model Y is now cannibalizing Model 3 sales and Model S/X are and will always be low volume sellers.
If Stellantis through JEEP steal enough high end sales away then Tesla is screwed as they will not have initiative in US, Europe or China.

p to the e · 29-04-2021 11:42am

cc87 wrote: »

There's a nice chart on it in this article. https://www.ft.com/content/98344e83-086f-426b-97e7-ca8fc0e5033c

They've been relying on them more and more as costs have increased.
I think they are getting close to that changing though with a number of new factories opening over the coming months and the Model S/X factory refit being completed.

That was a good read. I got to the article below via your article posted. Very strange behaviour.
https://www.ft.com/content/8014e86f-c06d-4175-ad63-f459d7cd9929

Basically they mention Bitcoin only once in their earnings presentation and it's not text but a JPG image making it impossible to search for.

Sabre Man · 29-04-2021 5:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I consider Tesla to be on the backfoot in Europe and China.

Why do you think so? Please share the data.

29-04-2021 6:01pm

AS is always the rule with investment "do your own research".
sift through the jingoistic cheerleading from Tesla EV forums, mix in hard sales data from key markets like Germany and France.
Note the manufacturers bringing out multiple models in the coming quarters up until early 2023.
Remember that companies like PSA and VAG sell more than just one model and a Model 3 outselling no2. and no.3 in the sales leaderboard and it is obvious that developments are not in Tesla's favour.

Sabre Man · 04-05-2021 1:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

AS is always the rule with investment "do your own research".
sift through the jingoistic cheerleading from Tesla EV forums, mix in hard sales data from key markets like Germany and France.
Note the manufacturers bringing out multiple models in the coming quarters up until early 2023.
Remember that companies like PSA and VAG sell more than just one model and a Model 3 outselling no2. and no.3 in the sales leaderboard and it is obvious that developments are not in Tesla's favour.

Fastest growing brands worldwide in 2021, by brand value growth rate:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/388051/most-valuable-brands-worldwide-by-region/

04-05-2021 1:53pm

http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/05/2021-q1-sales-by-oem.html

Sabre Man · 04-05-2021 2:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/05/2021-q1-sales-by-oem.html

As long as Tesla is growing fast, does it matter that other brands are also growing EV sales? Remember also that most of the other brands also sell ICE vehicles, which will decline in the coming years, so while they are selling more EVs they may be selling fewer cars in total.

04-05-2021 2:30pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

As long as Tesla is growing fast, does it matter that other brands are also growing EV sales? Remember also that most of the other brands also sell ICE vehicles, which will decline in the coming years, so while they are selling more EVs they may be selling fewer cars in total.

Answer: Myspace

cc87 · 04-05-2021 2:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Answer: Myspace

What your suggesting will happen is more like Myspace making a comeback and taking over from FB, twitter etc.

Tesla/Lithium stocks discussion

Comments