Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

lawred2 · 27-04-2021 02:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean "how can they risk assess"? Is this a real question?

They can factor in their own health status and age, their potential risk from getting infected, the level of infection in their area, and decide whether they're comfortable with it.

If they're not then they can use click & collect for groceries or get deliveries and stay home until such a time that they are comfortable with the risk. Nobody is obliged to do anything or go anywhere just because they're no longer restricted from doing so by diktat.

Some people can't think for themselves it seems.

the kelt · 27-04-2021 02:11PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We are exactly as much like India, a third-world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, as we are like Florida, a state in a first-world country with a population of 20 million. Therefore, we're just as likely to have outcomes similar to India's as Florida's. Got it, makes sense.

Follow the science

charlie14 · 27-04-2021 02:12PM

big syke wrote: »

That is besides the point and nothing to do with the original posts.

A fair point all the same but again of no value to the point/expression made.

Of value I felt that noting letting this virus rip based on just low case numbers can result in your ass badly bitten in short order. Regardless of what country you are.

Penfailed · 27-04-2021 02:13PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world (Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK), before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

Social distancing? Masks? Limits on numbers?

paddyisreal · 27-04-2021 02:15PM

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah bit like constantly comparing here to somewhere like the US with a population of 328.2 million or even specially selected bits of it with many times Irelands population! And God forbid we would hear anything about other countries or covid on a national station and it being "propagated"????

Never heard RTe or newstalk comparing Ireland to the opening of restrictions in the UK or America but I do here plenty from them comparing us with india

charlie14 · 27-04-2021 02:19PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We are exactly as much like India, a third-world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, as we are like Florida, a state in a first-world country with a population of 20 million. Therefore, we're just as likely to have outcomes similar to India's as Florida's. Got it, makes sense.

You don`t have to look as far as Florida or India to see what this virus can do if a country mis-manages it`s response. Just look next door at the U.K.
They are now getting praised for their low case numbers and opening up, but prior to vaccination they were a shambles. Amongst the highest in the world per capita for Covid deaths.

francogarbanzo · 27-04-2021 02:22PM

charlie14 wrote: »

You don`t have to look as far as Florida or India to see what this virus can do if a country mis-manages it`s response. Just look next door at the U.K.
They are now getting praised for their low case numbers and opening up, but prior to vaccination they were a shambles. Amongst the highest in the world per capita for Covid deaths.

We have mismanaged our response.

27-04-2021 02:27PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Social distancing? Masks? Limits on numbers?

No, no, and no. I don't know how to be more clear.

People and businesses can make their own assessments and act accordingly. A business that decides to enforce social distancing and mask-wearing on its premises is going to attract some people for those reasons, and those people may be willing to pay a premium for those features. Other people will be put off by those rules. The same applies to businesses that decide not to enforce any particular covid rules.

Healthy people in their twenties will probably be as alright risking Covid as they previously were risking flu or mono or a bad cold. Healthy people in their twenties who live with a member of a vulnerable group will have additional considerations.

Unvaccinated people in their thirties with aggravating conditions might choose to go to the establishments that enforce distancing.

Unvaccinated people in their sixties with aggravating conditions might choose to forego social/public activities until a few weeks after their second dose of vaccine. Or they might decide to go to a rave with twenty-year-olds and get hammered. Whose business is it if the health system is holding up?

Boggles · 27-04-2021 02:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK

Really, precisely?

You have evidence for this of course?

charlie14 · 27-04-2021 02:31PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

We have mismanaged our response.

More-so than the U.K.?

gozunda · 27-04-2021 02:31PM

big syke wrote: »

I am not sure if you are missing the point or are being purpousfully obtuse . Nothing went over my head. The point is why the need to bring up India in rerpsonse to a poster whi is jeaslous of the freeedoms Florida have?

Well in that case it clearly did go over your head

As to your question: Why not? Its a simple and current analogy to something that's equally depressing and where the poster was clearly attempting to compare our situation to Florida. Something bizarrely I was accused of - for simply mentioning another country.

But more important Is there a prohibition or something on mentioning the word 'india' which leads to people losing their reason and accusing others of all and sundry?

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 02:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Incorrect. I do. I trust people to make their own risk assessments and act accordingly.

The only ethical reason to ever have had this level of restriction was to hold up a disastrously managed health service. A health service that didn't come close to collapsing when we had the highest cases per capita in the world (Edit: precisely because countries locked down and put evolutionary pressure on the original virus to mutate to be more transmissible, resulting in B117 spreading here from the UK), before vaccinations had even started.

Open everything and open it now.

Para 1; er…. no... Tried that eg Belmullet.

Para 2; intrinsically incorrect. In every sentence.

para 3 NO!

Zardoz · 27-04-2021 02:35PM

rob316 wrote: »

The deadly pandemic, where I don't know a single person that died of it.

Never mind dying from it, I don't know anyone who even got it.
Neither does anyone in my family and a number of friends I have asked ranging from locations all over Ireland, in the UK and in Canada.

In the same year I know of at least 10 people who died from Cancer.

PintOfView · 27-04-2021 02:35PM

rob316 wrote: »

The deadly pandemic, where I don't know a single person that died of it. I know plenty of elderly people though who are heartbroken that they have barely seen their children, grand children and great grand children for over a year.

Would you prefer if we had opened everything up long before we vaccinated,
just so you could see for yourself how many people would die from it?

Don't Chute! · 27-04-2021 02:36PM

gozunda wrote: »

To paraphrase - What is it with using what’s happening in Sweden to justify letting it rip?

One thing for sure this thread is absolutely addicted to misery...

Just give me a second there Goz I’m just looking at my post to find where I said or even SUGGESTED “letting it rip”.

No sorry, couldn’t find it. Could you show me?

Graces7 · 27-04-2021 02:37PM

gozunda wrote: »

We in that case it clearly did go over your head

As to your question: Why not? Its a simple and current analogy to something that's equally depressing and where the poster was clearly attempting to compare our situation to Florida. Something bizarrely I was accused of - for simply mentioning another country.

But more important Is there a prohibition or something on mentioning the word 'india' which leads to people losing their reason and accusing others of all and sundry?

Folk do not want to face TRUTH when faced with it. India is too real for them. Scares them. As it should. ( pmed you)

Closing now; thank you for being there.

Ph I checked re child deaths in India from lockdowns; BBC does not see it as the poster here does? Sad to see child suffering in a poor country u sed to try to justify scrapping lockdowns here.

27-04-2021 02:44PM

PintOfView wrote: »

Would you prefer if we had opened everything up long before we vaccinated,
just so you could see for yourself how many people would die from it?

You have no idea how many people would die, it's all based on modelling and assumptions, which have been utter bollocks so far. I don't disagree more people would die if we opened up versus if we don't, but the goal shouldn't be to restrict death at all costs.

What we're now doing is going ultra-conservative based on worse than worst-case assumptions which is utter lunacy and ignores every other facet of the country.

mohawk · 27-04-2021 02:45PM

Boggles wrote: »

Really, precisely?

You have evidence for this of course?

It’s very basic virology 101. Some mutations are favourable for virus to continue and others are a disadvantage for the virus and it can run out of hosts.

Human behaviour can impact the virus. We put evolutionary pressure on viruses all the time with our immune responses.

27-04-2021 02:46PM

Zardoz wrote: »

Never mind dying from it, I don't know anyone who even got it.

I got it. It was fairly ****. Cough lasted about a year, all told.

A few relatives got it. Most fine. A few family friends got it. One dead.

I don't know anyone who got or died of H1N1 back in 2009/10 but it was still a pandemic.

The problem is what "pandemic" has come to actually mean in the minds of many. And the very "special" response to this one.

27-04-2021 02:47PM

mohawk wrote: »

It’s very basic virology 101. Some mutations are favourable for virus to continue and others are a disadvantage for the virus and it can run out of hosts.

Human behaviour can impact the virus. We put evolutionary pressure on viruses all the time with our immune responses.

Was he replying to me? lol

I've him blocked for months. Heartily recommend it.

_Kaiser_ · 27-04-2021 02:49PM

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I would imagine the governments line on Intercounty will be July - or basically as late as possible.

The MINUTE intercounty is open, the entire population of Dublin will decamp to the south and the west. Since they have much higher cases in a small county with less chance to go anywhere, they are itching for it probably more than other counties (eg: Cork can drive 2 1/2 hours and still be in Cork). In Dublin you have Howth and a small sliver of mountains.

Trouble is you spread the infections then around the country. I can see the problem with this, but it doesn't excuse the governments recent atrocious handling of all this.

As I said this morning though, it doesn't really matter (or shouldn't) by that stage

By July everyone actually at risk should have been vaccinated, and the other 99% of the population should rightly be able to get on with things

Of course this should already be the case but many of us here predicted that the vaccination rollout would be a mess - not all the Government/HSE's fault in fairness, but not helped by some of their decisions either.

Boggles · 27-04-2021 02:50PM

mohawk wrote: »

It’s very basic virology 101. Some mutations are favourable for virus to continue and others are a disadvantage for the virus and it can run out of hosts.

Human behaviour can impact the virus. We put evolutionary pressure on viruses all the time with our immune responses.

Thanks for that tangent.

Now the evidence that B117 mutated precisely because of restrictions in England?

In your own good time.

scamalert · 27-04-2021 02:54PM

So to sum it up:

:India is bad

whats it to do with us

:nothing just seen on tv India
so ?

:but India has bad

were not India

:I know but they have it bad there
still not India here

:we need to be careful because India

everyone else :pac::cool:

Boggles · 27-04-2021 02:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Was he replying to me? lol

I've him blocked for months. Heartily recommend it.

Won't stop people highlighting your falsehoods though.

But you have your echo chamber so you are happy.

ypres5 · 27-04-2021 02:59PM

scamalert wrote: »

So to sum it up:

:India is bad

whats it to do with us

:nothing just seen on tv India
so ?

:but India has bad

were not India

:I know but they have it bad there
still not India here

:we need to be careful because India

everyone else :pac::cool:

They also completely ignore the fact that 86 million Indian people live in poverty without access to clean drinking water, sanitation, sewage systems, proper diets, and basic healthcare in some of the largest megacities in the world. Anyone who thinks we can compare ireland and india is on mind altering drugs as far as I'm concerned

scamalert · 27-04-2021 03:03PM

hardly defeats a fact when asked why the hell they bring it up they will be i didnt say anything about India :pac: and then roll India ... in the next response

gozunda · 27-04-2021 03:04PM

scamalert wrote: »

So to sum it up:
:India is bad
whats it to do with us
:nothing just seen on tv India
so ?
:but India has bad
were not India
:I know but they have it bad there
still not India here
:we need to be careful because India
everyone else :

Ah no you've got it aresways there

Someone simply mentions the word 'India'

The place implodes and all hell breaks loose

Screams of:

"you're comparing us with INDIA!!!

"You can't mention the word India"

"Its all a big conspiracy to keep us locked up"

"Its a different country"

"But hey Florida!"

& etc ...

mohawk · 27-04-2021 03:05PM

Boggles wrote: »

Thanks for that tangent.

Now the evidence that B117 mutated precisely because of restrictions in England?

In your own good time.

Can you not see how previous stains with lower transmission rates could run out of hosts with restrictions? If you can’t then I can’t help you.
Viruses are fascinating the way you can see survival of the fittest in action.

ypres5 · 27-04-2021 03:07PM

gozunda wrote: »

Ah no you've got it aresways there;)

Someone simply mentions the word 'India'

The place implodes and all hell breaks loose

Screams of:

"you're comparing us with INDIA!!!

"You can't mention the word India"

"Its all a big conspiracy to keep us locked up"

"Florida!"

& etc ...

So gozunda, what do you feel ireland has in common with india in terms of population size, density, healthcare and overall standard of living? While florida might not be a like for like comparison to ireland we've a lot more on common in terms of standard of living and quality of life

Boggles · 27-04-2021 03:10PM

mohawk wrote: »

Can you not see how previous stains with lower transmission rates could run out of hosts with restrictions? If you can’t then I can’t help you.
Viruses are fascinating the way you can see survival of the fittest in action.

Again you seem to be determined to give "Virology 101".

A definite statement was made on the origin of B117.

I merely asked for evidence to back this statement, not a unique proposal I'm sure you would agree.

So without going "Virology 101" on me again, have you evidence that backs up the statement?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings