Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Seweryn

A few sensible words from one of our experienced and now retired doctors.

Worth listening to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKF5aoi3DDM

ypres5

MOR316 wrote: »

Muinteoir Holohan will see you after class for that.

facehugger99

ypres5 wrote: »

I don't understand the compulsive need some people have to put overpaid public servants on a pedestal like they're feeding the poor in Yemen. The lads in nphet will be alright, they won't be claiming the PUP or dole any time soon

The weak-minded have always needed others to tell them what to think and what to do.

Real Donald Trump

Seweryn wrote: »

A few sensible words from one of our experienced and now retired doctors.

Worth listening to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKF5aoi3DDM

This man speaks too much sense.

PTH2009

facehugger99 wrote: »

The weak-minded have always needed others to tell them what to think and what to do.

'Take your tablets like a good man'. What the doctors tells ya you do

If it's anything i've learnt from the past and from this is Doctors/GPs are not always right and you have a choice

It is a bit of a generation gap i find and my father's side of the family (60s/70s) would be all for what these experts say and they were raised that way. My generation nope i want a choice

ArthurDayne

Lumen wrote: »

There were several justifications for lockdowns, one of which was preventing HCS collapse and mass death.

Another was that the provision of healthcare becomes very difficult with a high rate of infection and disease, partly due to the resources required to directly treat those patients, and partly due to practical difficulties with keeping non-infected but vulnerable patients safe from infection. It's not easy to split services in two.

Another was that there are capacity limits to test and trace and so it becomes harder to control outbreaks when there are lots of them.

I don't know what level of infection is tolerable. France have been managing with 5-10x the cases per capita that we have, although they have more capacity in their healthcare system. So maybe we could live with 1,000/day rather than 400/day.

The problem is that France has personal services and a bit more outdoor sports open but otherwise their lockdown is much the same as ours. Their cafes and restaurants have been closed since the end of October.

So if we re-open too quick, we're not going to very far open before we have to at least pause re-opening further, or worse still go back to full level 5.

That's of course if you buy into the idea that keeping to a thousand or so cases a day is worth doing to keep healthcare and contact tracing functioning.

If you just want everything open and to hell with the consequences then...I don't think the government has popular support for that.

Apologies as I only saw this now.

First of all, I’m not sure how those additional justifications you provide for lockdown are actually separate from the collapsed healthcare system justification. When you talk about the difficulty of compartmentalising the virus in hospitals, surely this difficulty would have to be so overriding as to precipitate a lot of death and suffering by virtue of the healthcare service being unable to cope with it. I mean, lockdown was never justified to the public on a watery sort of “well we might have some difficulty here and there” basis — it was justified on a basis of “we will have so much difficulty that we will be unable to cope and many people will suffer and die as a result of that”.

Now, the other thing which I take issue with in your post is the assertion of what has become a persistent false dichotomy — that there is no middle ground between the strategy and “open everything up and to hell with the consequences”. My argument has never rested on opening everything up, my argument has simply rested in finding the right balance and ensuring that the measures taken are proportionate and reasonable. Where we have a virus that is, for the most part, deadly for only a specific cohort of the population and most of the fatalities are at or exceeding the average life expectancy, there is room for balance. This is now all the more so given that the nursing home cohort and many of those in the age group most likely to die from this virus have received at least one vaccination which gives significant protection — and medical staff are also vaccinated.

Getting residential construction back again has not caused the health service to collapse, nor will it. The same can be said for the 5km limit and schools being closed and the same will be the case when bars / restaurants / hairdressers and retailers are given a dog’s chance of opening in a manner where they follow precautionary measures. They were open before and this did not collapse healthcare, but sadly Irish society and the State have taken the view that what happened at Christmas — the most sociable time of the year, with people moving all around to gather indoors with older relatives, where respiratory illness seasonality is a factor, and in a year where people had not seen eachother and were unaware of when they could again — can and will be directly translated to now if we dare to peel away at least some of the measures quicker than the ludicrously slow pace being pursued now.

Seweryn

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

This man speaks too much sense.

Sadly that could be the main reasons he had to resign from his position.

scamalert

good point from that doc people brainwashed, risk vs reward ratio gone out of window so is the logic of most.

corcaigh07

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any idea when intercounty travel will be back? I have a hotel stay booked for late June. Thanks.

My prediction is just after the June Bank Holiday.

LuckyLloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, no, and no. I don't know how to be more clear.

People and businesses can make their own assessments and act accordingly. A business that decides to enforce social distancing and mask-wearing on its premises is going to attract some people for those reasons, and those people may be willing to pay a premium for those features. Other people will be put off by those rules. The same applies to businesses that decide not to enforce any particular covid rules.

Healthy people in their twenties will probably be as alright risking Covid as they previously were risking flu or mono or a bad cold. Healthy people in their twenties who live with a member of a vulnerable group will have additional considerations.

Unvaccinated people in their thirties with aggravating conditions might choose to go to the establishments that enforce distancing.

Unvaccinated people in their sixties with aggravating conditions might choose to forego social/public activities until a few weeks after their second dose of vaccine. Or they might decide to go to a rave with twenty-year-olds and get hammered. Whose business is it if the health system is holding up?

The transmissibility of the virus (particularly the predominant British variant) renders this position a complete non starter. Leaving aside the epidemiological irresponsibility of allowing it to rip through large cohorts of the adult population unfettered. Personal responsibility doesn’t work for this one.

Your position is utterly extreme, I hope you understand that.

KrustyUCC

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rfi.fr/en/international/20210427-no-sign-of-infection-after-barcelona-covid-concert-trial-say-organisers-culture-events

Indoor concert goes well

They also served alcohol

Better not tell Tony

KrustyUCC

corcaigh07 wrote: »

My prediction is just after the June Bank Holiday.

I'd take that

Some of the leaks over the last few days are now saying July

Sobit1964

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The transmissibility of the virus (particularly the predominant British variant) renders this position a complete non starter. Leaving aside the epidemiological irresponsibility of allowing it to rip through large cohorts of the adult population unfettered. Personal responsibility doesn’t work for this one.

Your position is utterly extreme, I hope you understand that.

Can you explain in considerably more detail what might make this position 'extreme'?

Multipass

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The transmissibility of the virus (particularly the predominant British variant) renders this position a complete non starter. Leaving aside the epidemiological irresponsibility of allowing it to rip through large cohorts of the adult population unfettered. Personal responsibility doesn’t work for this one.

Your position is utterly extreme, I hope you understand that.

As opposed to locking down the entire country for the best part of a year - that’s not utterly extreme?

Zebra3

One million people vaccinated and the country still in L5.

Who would’ve believed that during the winter?

And the cheerleaders demanding it goes on....

Penfailed

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Can you explain in considerably more detail what might make this position 'extreme'?

He's one of the only people on this thread that advocates opening everything up with no mitigating measures. That's extreme.

ypres5

Penfailed wrote: »

He's one of the only people on this thread that advocates opening everything up with no mitigating measures. That's extreme.

Well the people on other end of the spectrum have had the run of the country this past year and there's still no end in sight so I don't blame him for wanting things to open asap

The Big Easy

Penfailed wrote: »

He's one of the only people on this thread that advocates opening everything up with no mitigating measures. That's extreme.

What exactly is vaccination, if not a mitigating factor?

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

He's one of the only people on this thread that advocates opening everything up with no mitigating measures. That's extreme.

As I said; this would not happen.

No government-mandated mitigating measures is not the same thing as "let 'er rip".

The idea that the second Big Daddy Government lifts the foot an inch everyone and their dog from every demographic is going to be cramming into the most packed venue they can find to suck tongues is pure fantasy. And insulting to the Irish public.

Coillte_Bhoy

Multipass wrote: »

As opposed to locking down the entire country for the best part of a year - that’s not utterly extreme?

That certainly would be an extreme measure but thankfully nothing like that actually happened.

Coillte_Bhoy

Zebra3 wrote: »

One million people vaccinated and the country still in L5.

Who would’ve believed that during the winter?

And the cheerleaders demanding it goes on....

Really? Thats news to me and many more i would think

PTH2009

KrustyUCC wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rfi.fr/en/international/20210427-no-sign-of-infection-after-barcelona-covid-concert-trial-say-organisers-culture-events

Indoor concert goes well

They also served alcohol

Better not tell Tony

but but but the VARIANTS esp the ones yet to be discovered

This is great news for the Entertainment industry, not so much in Ireland as European science doesn't cut it here and our lads know more

growleaves

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

That certainly would be an extreme measure but thankfully nothing like that actually happened.

We've had three lockdowns totalling 9 months over the previous 13 months.

Zebra3

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Really? Thats news to me and many more i would think

Well try to keep up with the news then.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

One million mark would’ve been easily passed by now.

Corholio

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well try to keep up with the news then.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

One million mark would’ve been easily passed by now.

I think the 'not fully vaccinated' card is being played.

The Big Easy

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well try to keep up with the news then.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

One million mark would’ve been easily passed by now.

Jeez, Pfizer really are a great bunch of lads, let's hope they can keep it up!

ypres5

Corholio wrote: »

I think the 'not fully vaccinated' card is being played.

I guess when you've no longer got an argument worth a curse you resort to being pedantic, as can be seen there.

Don't Chute!

The Big Easy wrote: »

Jeez, Pfizer really are a great bunch of lads, let's hope they can keep it up!

I see what you did there!

FintanMcluskey

Zebra3 wrote: »

One million people vaccinated and the country still in L5.

Who would’ve believed that during the winter?

And the cheerleaders demanding it goes on....

The lockdown must continue due to the variants that don’t exist that the vaccine might not work on

A long way from “buy the health service time”

leanin2019

Forgive me if its been discussed already.

Anybody know if the gyms are opening soon? Im anxiously awaiting Thursdays announcement in relation to this specifically. Tks