Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

Whatsisname · 17-04-2021 01:00PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Just goes to show how quickly things can change with this virus.
A few weeks ago the media was all over India close to reaching naturally acquired herd immunity.

Yeah wouldn’t be like the media to drive up fear in any way they can alright.

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https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1382753638049808385?s=20[/url]

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https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1382753644123201540?s=20[/url]

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https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1382753645561847811?s=20[/url]

User1998 · 17-04-2021 01:03PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I understand, fair points by you. I just two countries have had major vaccination plans, UK and Israel. They set out a roadmap and have been able to follow every step so far with outstanding success. Why can't we as a country be some bit optimistic and make a plan similar to them. If things go tits up we will lock up again. People understood we needed to do it at Christmas.

This time around people will not be understanding about going into another lockdown. As much as I want a roadmap out of this, I never want be in another lockdown again and I assume most people would agree

charlie14 · 17-04-2021 01:06PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Of course I do, so should we plan to open similar to these countries when we reach the same level of vaccination. I just want a plan.

How many plans or predictions have you actually seen working out accurately so far where this virus is concerned.
We have both the U.K. (more apt to Ireland imo) and Israel testing out a plan. If it works at the level of vaccination that the U.K. is attempting at the moment then we will have a much clearer picture of when we can announce something other than provisional dates.
Announcing provisional dates and then having to change them to me is akin to the saying, "It`s not the despair that kills you, it`s the hope"

PTH2009 · 17-04-2021 01:06PM

User1998 wrote: »

This time around people will not be understanding about going into another lockdown. As much as I want a roadmap out of this, I never want be in another lockdown again and I assume most people would agree

True, They really need to think of the economic impacts

The fear is It will just be 'ah sure we'll be grand we will hike up the taxes etc'

robbiezero · 17-04-2021 01:09PM

Just turned on the 1 o clock news there.
Some good news, people MIGHT be allowed travel outside their counties in June.

Surely even the most dedicated lemmings won't be still heeding this nonsense by June.

Allinall · 17-04-2021 01:09PM

paddyisreal wrote: »

Point is some people only see what they want to see.
So what is positive about being the 3rd worse in the eu?

Case numbers are down.
Hospitalisations are down.
ICU numbers are down.
Outbreaks in care settings are close to zero.
Outbreaks in healthcare workers are close to zero.

All of the above are in some way as a result of vaccinations.

What other countries are doing has little or no bearing on outcomes here.

Klonker · 17-04-2021 01:10PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0417/1210449-restrictions/

We may have inter county travel at some point in June. The way its written makes it sound like this is sooner than expected and an optimistic target and we should be delighted to read such a news report, after inter country travel in the EU without quarentining in will be brought in! It also sounds like this is a government projection, NPHETs advice would probably be a lot more pessimistic.

By end of May all very high risk, high risk and over 60s should have a first vaccine. By that stage there should be no justification for travel restrictions within Ireland.

niallo27 · 17-04-2021 01:21PM

User1998 wrote: »

This time around people will not be understanding about going into another lockdown. As much as I want a roadmap out of this, I never want be in another lockdown again and I assume most people would agree

So what's the alternative, stay in this lockdown so we don't have to lockdown again. So your saying you would stay in level 5 until September or October if we never had to lockdowm again.

niallo27 · 17-04-2021 01:23PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Every other country in Europe is winging it with provisional dates as they are stabbing a guess when they will reach the levels of vaccination required.
T
he only data that is there really where we are concerned is the U.K. data. They have decided they have reached the level of vaccination where it is safe to open certain levels of society. And even then they are only giving provisional dates for further openings if the present level holds true.
We are actually in the happy position that we can allow them to test the waters for us rather than stab a guess at what level of vaccination is required before opening up in stages

Why are we ignoring the data out of Israel. So are you saying the government is winging the vaccine plan now.

gozunda · 17-04-2021 01:23PM

charlie14 wrote: »

They were at that level last Summer due to the data at the time, but with rising numbers that changed and we were back in lockdown.
The hope with vaccines is that we will not have to go back to the same yoyo on lockdown, so openings will depend on the levels of vaccination.
Way I see it we have two choices.
Learn from others who are further advanced in vaccinations than we are and are opening up gradually based on those levels, or just take a punt and hope we get it right and we do not go back to square one.
Which do you favour ?
Personally I would go with the data.

This.

niallo27 · 17-04-2021 01:25PM

Allinall wrote: »

Case numbers are down.
Hospitalisations are down.
ICU numbers are down.
Outbreaks in care settings are close to zero.
Outbreaks in healthcare workers are close to zero.

All of the above are in some way as a result of vaccinations.

What other countries are doing has little or no bearing on outcomes here.

We should be in line with our European neighbours and if not they should be held accountable as it will cost lives and jobs.

gozunda · 17-04-2021 01:31PM

niallo27 wrote: »

We should be in line with our European neighbours and if not they should be held accountable as it will cost lives and jobs.

Well we certainly don't want to be in line with those EU countries who are in deep dodo with rising rates of infection and significant pressures on their health services.

And in other news looks like NI has come onto alingment with UK and Ireland within the Common Travel Area and have announced a 10-day mandatory hotel quarantine for 'red list' arrival. Makes sense.

https://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-5412688-Apr2021/?amp=1&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=upday

niallo27 · 17-04-2021 01:32PM

charlie14 wrote: »

They were at that level last Summer due to the data at the time, but with rising numbers that changed and we were back in lockdown.
The hope with vaccines is that we will not have to go back to the same yoyo on lockdown, so openings will depend on the levels of vaccination.
Way I see it we have two choices.
Learn from others who are further advanced in vaccinations than we are and are opening up gradually based on those levels, or just take a punt and hope we get it right and we do not go back to square one.
Which do you favour ?
Personally I would go with the data.

What do you mean by take a punt and end up back at square 1, if we end up back at square 1 then the vaccines don't work, why would we possibly assume that.

Vicxas · 17-04-2021 01:33PM

Klonker wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0417/1210449-restrictions/

We may have inter county travel at some point in June. The way its written makes it sound like this is sooner than expected and an optimistic target and we should be delighted to read such a news report, after inter country travel in the EU without quarentining in will be brought in! It also sounds like this is a government projection, NPHETs advice would probably be a lot more pessimistic.

By end of May all very high risk, high risk and over 60s should have a first vaccine. By that stage there should be no justification for travel restrictions within Ireland.

Even June sounds too far away

charlie14 · 17-04-2021 01:33PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Why are we ignoring the data out of Israel. So are you saying the government is winging the vaccine plan now.

Which country do you believe we have more in common with?
Israel only opened their pubs and restaurants a few weeks ago to holders of "green passes" for those fully vaccinated as far as I recall. Are you saying we should do the same ?

And no I was not saying the government is "winging the vaccine plan". I presume they will be watching what the U.K. data will tell us in a few weeks on the subject of your concern, opening pubs.

niallo27 · 17-04-2021 01:33PM

gozunda wrote: »

Well we certainly don't want to be in line with those EU countries who are in deep dodo with rising rates of infection and significant pressures on their health services.

And in other news looks like NI has come onto alingment with UK and Ireland within the Common Travel Area and have announced a 10-day mandatory hotel quarantine for 'red list' arrival. Makes sense.

https://www.thejournal.ie/northern-ireland-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-5412688-Apr2021/?amp=1&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=upday

We are talking about vaccination roll out but hey "pints"

niallo27 · 17-04-2021 01:35PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Which country do you believe we have more in common with?
Israel only opened their pubs and restaurants a few weeks ago to holders of "green passes" for those fully vaccinated as far as I recall. Are you saying we should do the same ?

When we reach the same level of vaccination then yes, do you not think so also.

Penfailed · 17-04-2021 01:36PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Feeling the panic button could be hit at any stage

Don't hit it. Stay strong.

KrustyUCC · 17-04-2021 01:37PM

Klonker wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0417/1210449-restrictions/

We may have inter county travel at some point in June. The way its written makes it sound like this is sooner than expected and an optimistic target and we should be delighted to read such a news report, after inter country travel in the EU without quarentining in will be brought in! It also sounds like this is a government projection, NPHETs advice would probably be a lot more pessimistic.

By end of May all very high risk, high risk and over 60s should have a first vaccine. By that stage there should be no justification for travel restrictions within Ireland.

All to be timed for after the Bank Holiday weekend no doubt

Can’t have anything open or inter county travel before a Bank Holiday

titan18 · 17-04-2021 01:38PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

All to be timed for after the Bank Holiday weekend no doubt

Can’t have anything open or inter county travel before a Bank Holiday

Guaranteed. Probably for the weekend after it.

gozunda · 17-04-2021 01:40PM

niallo27 wrote: »

We are talking about vaccination roll out but hey "pints"

Nothing about "pints" in that comment unless were back to things which weren't said and questions which weren't asked in the first place. I was referring to your comment about being "in line". And NI aligning with us and the rest of the UK.

But yes if you remember I answered your previous question about vaccination rates and then you oddly demanded to know when pubs were reopening for pints!

It would be good if you could decide what we are allowed to talk about

Penfailed · 17-04-2021 01:40PM

paddyisreal wrote: »

Point is some people only see what they want to see.
So what is positive about being the 3rd worse in the eu?

We're not last?

RGS · 17-04-2021 01:41PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I understand, fair points by you. I just two countries have had major vaccination plans, UK and Israel. They set out a roadmap and have been able to follow every step so far with outstanding success. Why can't we as a country be some bit optimistic and make a plan similar to them. If things go tits up we will lock up again. People understood we needed to do it at Christmas.

Because our government and NPHET have continuously stated they are moving with an abundance of caution. They dont do optimism.
The AZ jab is a prime example of our ultra abundance of caution.

paddyisreal · 17-04-2021 01:45PM

Penfailed wrote: »

We're not last?

Lol, true always a bright side

gozunda · 17-04-2021 01:45PM

RGS wrote: »

Because our government and NPHET have continuously stated they are moving with an abundance of caution. They dont do optimism.
The AZ jab is a prime example of our ultra abundance of caution.

Correct me if I'm wrong but have a bunch of other countries not also pulled / restricted the AZ vaccine?

charlie14 · 17-04-2021 01:46PM

niallo27 wrote: »

What do you mean by take a punt and end up back at square 1, if we end up back at square 1 then the vaccines don't work, why would we possibly assume that.

The principle of vaccination is twofold. Protect those vaccinated and ideally reach a level through numbers vaccinated that will provide a herd immunity to those who are not vaccinated including those unable to take the vaccine for varous reasons (a highly vulnerable group).
Not much point in having a low % vaccinated if the vast majority are not for a number of reasons. Not the least off being that with still high numbers there is every chance of virus mutation that could also infect those vaccinated.
Back to square one. Lockdown and a new vaccine rollout for everyone.

charlie14 · 17-04-2021 01:49PM

niallo27 wrote: »

When we reach the same level of vaccination then yes, do you not think so also.

For which, the U.K or Israel where "pints" are concerned ?

Beasty · 17-04-2021 01:57PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Second shot is generally just a booster. Good to get, but the first shot is the game changer.

We need to be working off first shot number re opening back up.

I appreciate that about the first dose. My concern is we may apply rules requiring people to be "fully vaccinated" before you can do certain things

I suspect there is nothing out there at present officially commenting on this, but the way this whole pandemic has been handled I do wonder if they will still try and be ultra cautious

KrustyUCC · 17-04-2021 02:01PM

titan18 wrote: »

Guaranteed. Probably for the weekend after it.

Two weeksends after would be my guess

Weekend of the 20th starting the 14th

Beasty · 17-04-2021 02:02PM

Hạ Long Bay wrote: »

Can I ask what significant restrictions you think will be in place in mid July?

My own opinion is that cases and hospitalization rates will be extremely low at that point and everything apart from large gatherings will be allowed.

What if sporting events and things like concerts require "full vaccination". What about international travel and the possibility of still requiring to quarantine. I understand at a global level we are seeing the highest ever levels of infection as some of the new variants take hold elsewhere. We may find ourselves still battling this disease. It has caught us out so many times already

I don't think anyone can make assumptions over the timings of opening up, or the risk of new waves, or even once initial immunity starts to drop for those who received the vaccine early on. Just a few things that immediately spring to mind. We thought we were getting there late last year, but were bitten a few times with new issues arising

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings