Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

josip · 14-04-2021 08:01PM

So when will they actually decide on the spacing interval for Pfizer ?
Before Friday?
Before Sunday?
When JJ and FDA/EMA make a decision ?

Miike · 14-04-2021 08:07PM

josip wrote: »

So when will they actually decide on the spacing interval for Pfizer ?
Before Friday?
Before Sunday?
When JJ and FDA/EMA make a decision ?

and wheres the rain that fell last winter????

No but really no one really knows anything at the moment.

Vicxas · 14-04-2021 08:09PM

Dr. Robotnik (Stephen Donnelly) said that will be made this week at some stage

ddarcy · 14-04-2021 08:10PM

josip wrote: »

So when will they actually decide on the spacing interval for Pfizer ?
Before Friday?
Before Sunday?
When JJ and FDA/EMA make a decision ?

Pfizer recommends 3-4 weeks spacing. Ideally 3, so you would going against recommendations. There is some real world data out there, but that would have to be pulled in / analysed. I’d say something is going on in the background and ideally they’ll wait for the FDA/ EMA to decide about JJ first. If that goes badly, then they should have answer quick enough afterwards.

sd1999 · 14-04-2021 08:22PM

To me anyway it sounds like they’re just waiting to see what the story with J&J is. If they get the go ahead from the EMA on that, then Pfizer will probably have the normal interval. If they advise against using it or restrict it to over 60s, they’ll probably go with the 6-8 weeks. If J&J is all good (fingers crossed) then we’re in a better place than we were before AZ got restricted, due to the Pfizer boost.

hmmm · 14-04-2021 08:23PM

https://twitter.com/KrutikaKuppalli/status/1382409689028304901

ddarcy · 14-04-2021 08:29PM

hmmm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/KrutikaKuppalli/status/1382409689028304901

Interesting, so I’m looking at pre-existing conditions there. I wonder what AZ was like for clotting (essentially if you’re in group 4 you’re more prone to this than age in general)

hmmm · 14-04-2021 08:36PM

ddarcy wrote: »

Interesting, so I’m looking at pre-existing conditions there. I wonder what AZ was like for clotting (essentially if you’re in group 4 you’re more prone to this than age in general)

The entire thread is worth reading. No obvious pattern.

All were women, max age 48. Very rare.

Even if we limited this vaccine to men over (say) 30, it'd still be a good use for it in my view.

Let's get this train back on the tracks.

Russman · 14-04-2021 08:49PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

There is talk of the possibility of consent being signed by the person if they wanted to get AZ

Something I’m struggling with here, if you’re in one of the lower age cohorts, why would you bother with signing a waiver to get AZ ? Obviously it depends on what sort of delay the whole episode will result in, but if it’s only a week or two as some are saying, I can’t see the logic in signing a waiver to get AZ maybe two weeks early and then have a 12 week wait for your second dose ?
Like I’ve said before I’d take AZ in the morning, but at the same time if I could wait two weeks to get one of the mRNA jabs I’d happily wait.
Colour me slightly confused.

Russman · 14-04-2021 08:51PM

Champagne Sally wrote: »

I wonder if any of our lovely posters are 69 or have a close relative that is, I’d love to hear how they got on with the portal tomorrow if they would be kind enough to post about it.

My mum is 69 and I’ll be trying to register her in the morning (she’s 97% there with regard to taking AZ), I’ll post how we get on.

Degag · 14-04-2021 08:58PM

Russman wrote: »

Something I’m struggling with here, if you’re in one of the lower age cohorts, why would you bother with signing a waiver to get AZ ? Obviously it depends on what sort of delay the whole episode will result in, but if it’s only a week or two as some are saying, I can’t see the logic in signing a waiver to get AZ maybe two weeks early and then have a 12 week wait for your second dose ?
Like I’ve said before I’d take AZ in the morning, but at the same time if I could wait two weeks to get one of the mRNA jabs I’d happily wait.
Colour me slightly confused.

I guess people just want to get a jab of something in their arm as quickly as possible.

PhilOssophy · 14-04-2021 09:02PM

lbj666 wrote: »

There's gonna be a lot of parents children ticking disclaimers for them I reckon.

RTE have already got illiterate Mary in Westmeath lined up for the 6-one tomorrow.

Qrt · 14-04-2021 09:03PM

Degag wrote: »

I guess people just want to get a jab of something in their arm as quickly as possible.

That would be me; most of my family live in England and I haven’t seen them in 15 months. Just wanna go over and sit on a different sofa for a week!

hmmm · 14-04-2021 09:07PM

Russman wrote: »

Something I’m struggling with here, if you’re in one of the lower age cohorts, why would you bother with signing a waiver to get AZ ? Obviously it depends on what sort of delay the whole episode will result in, but if it’s only a week or two as some are saying, I can’t see the logic in signing a waiver to get AZ maybe two weeks early and then have a 12 week wait for your second dose ?

A lot for me depends on vaccine passports.

If a single dose is sufficient to travel, attend events etc., I'll take the first vaccine I can get. More than happy to take the AZ vaccine which seems to provide very good protection if clots remain a relatively rare side-effect.

If it's "fully vaccinated" before you can get a passport then like you say AZ becomes less attractive in later months.

PhilOssophy · 14-04-2021 09:08PM

Russman wrote: »

My mum is 69 and I’ll be trying to register her in the morning (she’s 97% there with regard to taking AZ), I’ll post how we get on.

Can let you know on Friday as well.

noplacehere wrote: »

I’m just catching up here and a little confused.

I’m a very high risk cohort in my thirties. I was given one dose of AstraZeneca.

As of this morning my understanding was I was going to be given the second jab as planned at the end of June.

Now I’m seeing some speculation we’d have to sign a waiver? What happens if we don’t want to sign the waiver? Can we get a different vaccine instead? Or do we go to the end of the line? There is a family history of clotting but not my own

Listen back to Luke O'Neill on Pat Kenny on Monday (I think), he completely debunked any link between this and "standard clotting".

Honestly, I will gladly sign a waiver to get an AZ vaccine. I like the odds being longer than being hit by a car.

But I will never let anybody near me with Sputnik. No fng way!

Degag · 14-04-2021 09:09PM

Qrt wrote: »

That would be me; most of my family live in England and I haven’t seen them in 15 months. Just wanna go over and sit on a different sofa for a week!

Yeah, as it stands i'm accepting the risk. It'll be another few months but once i'm called i don't care what they're putting in me!

hmmm · 14-04-2021 09:09PM

To keep an eye on over the next while

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1382424328059387912

Lumen · 14-04-2021 09:15PM

Russman wrote: »

Something I’m struggling with here, if you’re in one of the lower age cohorts, why would you bother with signing a waiver to get AZ ? Obviously it depends on what sort of delay the whole episode will result in, but if it’s only a week or two as some are saying, I can’t see the logic in signing a waiver to get AZ maybe two weeks early and then have a 12 week wait for your second dose ?

You might have to wait 12 weeks for a second dose of mRNA vaccine.

Also, one dose of AZ might be better than one of Pfizer.

One of the early UK pre-prints showed higher efficacy for AZ after one dose. For the over 70s, Pfizer plateaued at 61% after 1 month. Astra reached 60% after a month and then kept climbing to 73% in the following few days.

Early effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccination with BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine and ChAdOx1 adenovirus vector vaccine on symptomatic disease, hospitalisations and mortality in older adults in the UK: a test negative case control study
https://khub.net/documents/135939561/430986542/Early+effectiveness+of+COVID+vaccines.pdf/ffd7161c-b255-8e88-c2dc-88979fc2cc1b?t=1614617945615

I'm sure there might be other studies that show the reverse, but IMO they're probably both good enough.

ACitizenErased · 14-04-2021 09:16PM

Lumen wrote: »

You might have to wait 12 weeks for a second dose of mRNA vaccine.

Also, one dose of AZ might be better than one of Pfizer.

One of the early UK pre-prints showed higher efficacy for AZ after one dose. For the over 70s, Pfizer plateaued at 61% after 1 month. Astra reached 60% after a month and then kept climbing to 73% in the following few days.

Early effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccination with BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine and ChAdOx1 adenovirus vector vaccine on symptomatic disease, hospitalisations and mortality in older adults in the UK: a test negative case control study
https://khub.net/documents/135939561/430986542/Early+effectiveness+of+COVID+vaccines.pdf/ffd7161c-b255-8e88-c2dc-88979fc2cc1b?t=1614617945615

I'm sure there might be other studies that show the reverse, but IMO they're probably both good enough.

They're looking at 6-8 weeks.

hmmm · 14-04-2021 09:18PM

Lumen wrote: »

One of the early UK pre-prints showed higher efficacy for AZ after one dose. For the over 70s, Pfizer plateaued at 61% after 1 month. Astra reached 60% after a month and then kept climbing to 73% in the following few days.

The t-cell study released today was also very interesting showing a stronger response in AZ vs Pfizer.
https://www.ft.com/content/4492746e-6a14-4993-9c21-cd9c9f37eca4

I'm no immunologist, but as part of my accelerated online studies it's become apparent that we have had too much attention on antibodies, and not enough attention on t-cells which will likely provide protection against future variants.

Micky 32 · 14-04-2021 09:20PM

A bit of a vent here. I was talking to a woman today who works in a nursing home. She was telling me a couple of the staff refused to take the vaccine but are let work on as normal and nothing more about it. That pisses me off unfortunately……

funnydoggy · 14-04-2021 09:22PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

A bit of a vent here. I was talking to a woman today who works in a nursing home. She was telling me a couple of the staff refused to take the vaccine but are let work on as normal and nothing more about it. That pisses me off unfortunately……

For someone in that occupation, it should be compulsory. Horrible carry on.

Lumen · 14-04-2021 09:22PM

hmmm wrote: »

The t-cell study released today was also very interesting showing a stronger response in AZ vs Pfizer.
https://www.ft.com/content/4492746e-6a14-4993-9c21-cd9c9f37eca4

I'm no immunologist, but as part of my accelerated online studies it's become apparent that we have had too much attention on antibodies, and not enough attention on t-cells which will likely provide protection against future variants.

There's been a lot of speculation about t-cell immunity in the stuff I've read, going back ages.

I think the antibody focus just comes from the fact that they're easy to test for, and so are a handy proxy/indicator for likely immunity or past infection.

But I'm probably even less of an immunolgist that you are.

In any case, I reckon it makes sense to have a range of vaccines taken within a population to help gather as much data as possible. You know, for the next pandemic. The bad one.

Miike · 14-04-2021 09:24PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

A bit of a vent here. I was talking to a woman today who works in a nursing home. She was telling me a couple of the staff refused to take the vaccine but are let work on as normal and nothing more about it. That pisses me off unfortunately……

It's the duty of management here to do a risk assessment on this in the specific unit. HIQA today laid out their plan for vaccine refusal in healthcare workers

Strazdas · 14-04-2021 09:30PM

Degag wrote: »

I guess people just want to get a jab of something in their arm as quickly as possible.

Indeed : talk of vaccine hesitancy is totally overblown and overstated....many people just want to get vaccinated and try and get out of this pandemic once and for all.

vienne86 · 14-04-2021 09:40PM

Russman wrote: »

My mum is 69 and I’ll be trying to register her in the morning (she’s 97% there with regard to taking AZ), I’ll post how we get on.

I presume it will be clear where we actually register! I'm 69 and will let you all know how I get on.

Goldengirl · 14-04-2021 09:40PM

Miike wrote: »

I'm enjoying the silence on where this leaves healthcare workers in the interim who are waiting on their second doses or a decision to vaccinate using a different platform. I think its fairly reasonable to say they are at substantially higher risk of contracting the virus vs the general population and now a huge cohort (myself included) are being left in the lurch.

Paul Reid is on the record saying any healthcare worker who refuses the vaccine could be removed from their post under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005. NIAC could easily throw a spanner in the works here with their reply. Legally, for consent to be valid and genuine it has to be free of coercion or undue influence. I would argue that Paul Reids "threat" militates that notion outright.

"Risk taking the vaccine with the clot or loose your job".

For the record, I want to be very clear: I am awaiting my second dose of AZ and as things currently stand I absolutely want my second dose of it. Clot or not. I'm just interested in the medicolegal discussion thats going to crop up very soon.

Totally agree .
Asking people to sign to agree to take a vaccine also is opening a legal can of worms..... " consent under duress, where people are unsure if they will be offered another , is it valid "?

Goldengirl · 14-04-2021 10:11PM

noplacehere wrote: »

I’m just catching up here and a little confused.

I’m a very high risk cohort in my thirties. I was given one dose of AstraZeneca.

As of this morning my understanding was I was going to be given the second jab as planned at the end of June.

Now I’m seeing some speculation we’d have to sign a waiver? What happens if we don’t want to sign the waiver? Can we get a different vaccine instead? Or do we go to the end of the line? There is a family history of clotting but not my own

If you have had your first dose you will get your second dose at 12 weeks .
No waiver .
This waiver is very unlikely to happen medicolegally , despite some people talking about it today .
It leaves the state open to all sorts of legal action , from allowing people to feel that they are not in a position to get a vaccine unless they sign a form, to putting HCWs or the public under duress for fear of losing their livelihood or just their place in the queue.

Your upset and confusion over this and others feeling the pressure to take a vaccine, any vaccine to be able to get back to normal , is just what I am talking about here .
In no way is it fair to ask people to make those sort of choices with new vaccines in the middle of a pandemic and worldwide vaccination program .
Decisions will be made from the top ie NIAC and government, not only to protect the citizens but also to indemnify the state .

Also normal clotting history does not involve the same body reactions that cause CVST or thrombocytopenia.
It involves a different mechanism in the body completely.
Please talk with your GP about it but don't let all this upset you .

14-04-2021 10:16PM

Father in law is 69, he'll be registering tomorrow. We did offer to do it for him but he's well able to do it himself. The vaccination centre in his county isn't open until early May so he'll probably get called around then.

lukas8888 · 14-04-2021 10:18PM

Champagne Sally wrote: »

I wonder if any of our lovely posters are 69 or have a close relative that is, I’d love to hear how they got on with the portal tomorrow if they would be kind enough to post about it.

I'm 69 and will sign up tomorrow as i am very much in favour of vacination.Having said that given a choice i would have Astra as my last available choice.Hate the thought of 70 being around the corner but would now like to skip a year.Also feel that our age group 60 to 69 are being short changed,59 no Astra 70 no Astra.I am of the opinion that the portal will do well to reach 60 to 65% take up.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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