Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 02:31PM #1

I am not talking about the fact that it is a separate country, but purely from the standpoint of life and culture.

I am Northern Irish, so we are in the U.K. I lived in East Anglia and felt at times that the society was different, not from a stand point of infrastructure, food or day to day things but more the way of life in terms of cultural attitudes and communication.

The reservedness and inability to be direct and up front was something that I struggled to adapt to. I found it odd how the locals would avert eye contact, almost as if eye contact is a negative thing. I couldn’t get past the indirectness in communication; when communicating with English people I found it took a while to actually get down to the main point of what they were trying to say. Whilst here in Northern Ireland we just come out with it - (and I think that they did not like that approach).

If you visualise a politician being asked a question and not answering it. That is how the English communicate, with platitudes and indirectness... not actually getting to the point.

The very early closure of shops was also something that I found odd; 6pm shutters down everyday of the week, I’m not sure what it’s like in the south but here we would have shops open to 9pm at least a few days a week. To me closing that early is a very archaic practise, I know I struggled to get things done with such closing times, I’m not sure how working people are supposed to juggle such restrictive opening hours? Other things that stood out, would be the over reliance on public transport (most of my course mates at university had only started driving lessons, many were not intending to drive), small houses and large urban population.

So for me, yes certain aspects feel foreign, others don’t. Obviously for me it wouldn’t quite be the same as going to Spain etc.

Beechwoodspark · 11-04-2021 02:34PM

Yep. Very much so

I worked over there for 2 years in London and the Luton area.

One thing I noticed is how run down and dilapidated a lot of the UK cities are. Wasn’t expecting that.

Yes you had new developments but lot of run down areas too. More so than ireland

Pubs and restaurants are quite different atmosphere wise to here

And yea social interactions with people are different - as you say they are more reserved more indirect and lot of fake polite small talk

Complaining about things is a National hobby.

The class system is very real over there. Less so here.

There’s more inequality over there for sure.

I met and made some great friends. Some really sound people who I’m still in touch with.

On other hand I also met plenty of idiots - the anti irish “banter” consists of stuff like saying po-ta-to repeatedly when some randomer hears an Irish accent.

Had a few “paddy” comments over the years too.

I’m well aware British people get some insults etc here too.

In general though they are more reserved and unfriendly compared to here but I always remind myself they have 10 times the population so can’t really be compared like with like

Wallet Inspector · 11-04-2021 02:35PM

Can be very different in some ways indeed for somewhere so close. Way of life pretty much the same overall, but intricacies therein can be nothing alike.

Food is a big one in my opinion. A good quality but affordable restaurant/cafe is so much easier to find here.

pappyodaniel · 11-04-2021 02:36PM

Not really seeing as we hoover up their tele shows, sports and culture.
Saying that I've never been to England, but visited Scotland and Wales many times.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 02:38PM

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Not really seeing as we hoover up their tele shows, sports and culture.
Saying that I've never been to England, but visited Scotland and Wales many times.

I thought that England was similar until I moved there... there was a lot of differences that I didn’t notice when I visited, that I noticed upon moving.

Graces7 · 11-04-2021 02:39PM

It feels like a foreign county because it IS a foreign country...

I am English and yes, Ireland is a foreign country to me even over 20 years on. Oh I lived 10 years in Scotland between England and Ireland and that was a dfferent country too ...each country has its own nature and ways. Laws and customs. etc.

Be glad they do!

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 02:39PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yep. Very much so

I worked over there for 2 years

One thing I noticed is how run down and dilapidated a lot of the UK cities are. Wasn’t expecting that.

Yes you had new developments but lot of run down areas too. More so than ireland

Pubs and restaurants are quite different atmosphere wise to here

And yea social interactions with people are different - as you say they are more indirect and lot of fake polite small talk

In general they are unfriendly compared to here but I always remind myself they have 10 times the population so can’t really be compared like with like

They are definitely unfriendly from the standpoint of reaching out or communicating with strangers. I found my course mates kept to themselves and didn’t mix outside their own groups, it was very isolating.

I don’t think population size is relevant, it’s more of a cultural thing. There are many countries with large populations that have a generally friendly culture.

Cienciano · 11-04-2021 02:40PM

There's a lot of differences, but compared with Japan, Honduras and South Sudan, England is pretty similar to here

11-04-2021 02:43PM

They even have different accents and stuff.

11-04-2021 02:44PM

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 02:46PM

65535 wrote: »

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

I agree with you, I found I wasn’t taken seriously in conversation as an outsider. They would make stupid assumptions about me, explaining really daft things that also apply here, for ex, explaining to me about the general election when we vote in it lol etc. There is a lot of ignorance about other countries, even within the U.K. for ex, they use the term “U.K.” to mean England but when you talk about the other U.K. countries they look at you with a deer in headlights expression as if the other countries don’t exist or something idk.

tayto lover · 11-04-2021 02:52PM

Worked there for years.
Always found them friendly and good humoured in general even in the middle of the troubles.

indioblack · 11-04-2021 02:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They even have different accents and stuff.

When my mother arrived in England and began to talk the first thing they said was, "For God's sake slow down!"

11-04-2021 02:53PM

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I agree with you, I found I wasn’t taken seriously in conversation as an outsider. They would make stupid assumptions about me, explaining really daft things that also apply here, for ex, explaining to me about the general election when we vote in it lol etc. There is a lot of ignorance about other countries, even within the U.K. for ex, they use the term “U.K.” to mean England but when you talk about the other U.K. countries they look at you with a deer in headlights expression as if the other countries don’t exist or something idk.

Please, don't get me wrong - technically my dear Mother was British having been born in one of the 'treaty ports' back in the day. A lot of cousins, uncles etc. were in England and I indeed have spent happy years there. BUT there is an underlying 'we are better' all the time.
It can be explained in a Cork City context - there was the 'English Market' (which still thrives) and then there was 'Paddy's Market' which was the poorer area of Cornmarket street (which still runs but is called the Coal Quay)

Wallet Inspector · 11-04-2021 02:59PM

65535 wrote: »

Biggest problem is that they look down their noses to anything or anyone that is not English.
Once you can get over that hurdle you will be fine.
It is part of being 'English'

I don't find that in general at all. If anything I find them to be self deprecating. I'm obviously not saying what you describe doesn't exist but it's a hugely ethnically diverse country, with masses who voted remain or regret voting leave, it's quite a politically correct culture, and for all those fawning over Prince Philip there are those who rail against royalty.

Like the recent thread about bank officials being stuck up, if people want to find what confirms their bias, they'll find it, but perception and reality can be different things.

bunny_mac · 11-04-2021 03:00PM

I lived there for 9 years in three difference cities: one in the south, one in the west and one in the north. I never found the people to be unfriendly or condescending but they're definitely friendlier the further north you go. It is friendly in a different way, though. Can't quite put my finger on it.

I totally agree with the ignorance of other countries, though. It was beyond belief at times, particularly the 'Ireland not being in the UK' part. I don't know how many times I heard things like 'Oh, don't you use Sterling?!', or how many times I baffled post office workers by having to explain to them that I couldn't use a 1st or 2nd class stamp to send something to Ireland.

And they seem to really hate the French. Like, really.

LillySV · 11-04-2021 03:03PM

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

The reservedness and inability to be direct and up front was something that I struggled to adapt to. I found it odd how the locals would avert eye contact, almost as if eye contact is a negative thing. I couldn’t get past the indirectness in communication; when communicating with English people I found it took a while to actually get down to the main point of what they were trying to say. Whilst here in Northern Ireland we just come out with it - (and I think that they did not like that approach).

If you visualise a politician being asked a question and not answering it. That is how the English communicate, with platitudes and indirectness... not actually getting to the point.

.

The reason for this im sure is to avoid the risk of unnecessary confrontation and potential violence....Uk has a lot of cultures mixed together now.... some very vocal and some not...some violent...some not....and soft penalties/sentences from the judicial system against the worst offenders leads to many places turning into a cesspit...alot of danger...so ordinary folk will keep to themselves to try ensure their safety...

Ireland is going this way now too...see the amount of stabbings and attacks taking place....alot of our rougher dublin folk have absolutely no fear of the law.....ordinary folk here are starting to keep to themselves too for safety and this will increase as our streets get more dangerous..

I actually had a colleague tell me the other day that he sees Ireland following the same path as england...we are only afew years behind them...he lived in Uk for years and only recently returned and he sees the difference...while we spoke we got a big whiff of canabis from a lady in her 40s who was openly smoking it on streets near us while with her kids....drug use here seems to be alot more acceptable here now which is never good..

Yyhhuuu · 11-04-2021 03:06PM

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I thought that England was similar until I moved there... there was a lot of differences that I didn’t notice when I visited, that I noticed upon moving.

Can you elaborate as to the differences please.. I thought the people I met in London quite polite and friendly, but I'm not saying they're all like that. Ditto for Liverpool. Manchester was a different story though.

snowstorm445 · 11-04-2021 03:19PM

I think there are degrees of what we consider to be foreign.

England always felt foreign from my point of view having been there a few times. On the one hand I think it's the manners and the attitudes of English people that stand out vs us, but it's also their knowledge of the world around them. The complete lack of awareness they have about Ireland versus ours of them to me feels foreign, even though that's a self-centred attitude. It's even weirder when it comes to Northern Ireland - it's part of their country and yet some of them are barely aware of it. As Brexit has shown their attitude towards the EU is also fundamentally different from ours, or from any other country in Europe.

But I'm living in Belgium at the moment and in hindsight England doesn't feel as foreign as it does here. The language barrier is a major factor, but you also realise how much media and information we had from Britain growing up and how that doesn't exist here at all (outside of people with a special interest in it). But we do have a lot more in common with other Europeans than we think. I suspect if I were to travel somewhere outside of Europe, especially to Asia, it would feel even more foreign again.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 03:22PM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Can you elaborate as to the differences please.. I thought the people I met in London quite polite and friendly, but I'm not saying they're all like that. Ditto for Liverpool. Manchester was a different story though.

Very reserved, didn’t show much emotion, kept to themselves. They did not mix with or speak to people outside their friend groups. I was on a course for a few years with numerous people so this is not one group and is my general experience.

I found that people formed friendships there through connections, you couldn’t just form friendships by speaking to coursemates/strangers as you can here.

The reservedness would be all over, for example, if you were on a bus or a train, it would be silent. Nobody would speak, nobody would make eye contact. People would get on, sit and read a book or look out and get off when their stop was reached. That to me is a very alien concept and not at all how transport is here, as bus rides are certainly not silent here.

Larbre34 · 11-04-2021 03:22PM

It does.

A place without hope or ambition. Mostly a dreary post war sink, propped up by an ailing welfare state.

But predominantly, just the complete absence of craic.

Buddy Bubs · 11-04-2021 03:24PM

Bar staff are brutal

11-04-2021 03:25PM

The way you describe English people is exactly how I would describe Irish people.
The North of England is the opposite, I think you need to travel more over there.
Even shops stay open late in some cities

Do I find it foreign? No. Is it different to Ireland? Yep

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 03:28PM

bubblypop wrote: »

The way you describe English people is exactly how I would describe Irish people.
The North of England is the opposite, I think you need to travel more over there.
Even shops stay open late in some cities

Do I find it foreign? No. Is it different to Ireland? Yep

I don’t really know what you’re talking about but where I am in Northern Ireland the social scene is completely different to where I lived in England. People here are not at all reserved. People here are not at all afraid of speaking the truth.

11-04-2021 03:29PM

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I don’t really know what you’re talking about but where I am in Northern Ireland the social scene is completely different to where I lived in England. People here are not at all reserved. People here are not at all afraid of taking the truth.

Well in the South they are!

Economics101 · 11-04-2021 03:32PM

The North of England is in general much more friendly than the South. If you have encountered a stuck-up attitude, then the odds are 10:1 it was in the South.

Having said that, some of the more depressing places are will away from the prosperous South and South-East. Landing off the ferry I was struck at how wretched places like Fishguard and Bangor were.

AdrianBalboa · 11-04-2021 03:33PM

No, not really.

Arthur Daley · 11-04-2021 03:35PM

North of England is different to the South East. You also have to remember how close the SE is to France, Belgium and Holland. Closer as the crow flies than Ireland. And west of Ireland may as well be Czecholsovakia in distance.

Shops in the UK opened extended hours and Sunday before they did in Ireland from what I recall. Sunday opening is a fairly recent development anyway.

Zebra3 · 11-04-2021 03:39PM

Does feel foreign because it is.

Wouldn't be a fan of London. Too big a city for my liking. Manchester is decent for a night out. The amount of towns though that their main street just seems to consist of charity shops, pubs and gold for cash merchants is disturbing. But sure that was all the EU's fault.

Edinburgh is easily the nicest British city. Parts of it would make you feel like you were in somewhere like Vienna.

People in general don't know much about their own history apart from WWII. Very odd to me that while students here study seven subjects for their LC, the equivalent in Britain only seems to study three.

Their obsession with their military (poppy nonsense and all that) and their unelected head of state and her family is very disturbing.

Nqp15hhu · 11-04-2021 03:42PM

Arthur Daley wrote: »

North of England is different to the South East. You also have to remember how close the SE is to France, Belgium and Holland. Closer as the crow flies than Ireland. And west of Ireland may as well be Czecholsovakia in distance.

Shops in the UK opened extended hours and Sunday before they did in Ireland from what I recall. Sunday opening is a fairly recent development anyway.

I don’t know what the hours are in the south. Here there is 2-3 days a week where the shops are open to 9pm, the rest of the week is 7pm. The city I was in had 6pm hours most days bar 8pm on Friday and Saturday.

biko · 11-04-2021 03:43PM

Yes, because it is.

Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

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